Talk To Me About Fuse Blocks And Relays

I've admitted it several times before, I am ignorant about many things, Electricity being at the top of the list. In the past, I had multiple things running straight to the battery for power. This time I told myself that I would do it right. So I started looking into fuse blocks. This is where the problem begins. It's not that I am having trouble finding them online, I am finding too much and I am going into information overload. I don't get what a relay is and why it is necessary or why it isn't part of the fuse block.  It's like explaining hard disk partitioning to someone who doesn't understand bit sizes much less file allocation tables.

So my question to you people that are far more experienced than I is this; What should I get? I do not need much. I know my requirements. I will have minimal accessories in the beginning, but I want room to grow a little bit. Here is what I plan on using:

• I only want power to accessories when the bike is running. 
• Cell phone - I will only be using it for music and GPS. I want to have it on a ball mount on the steering stem.
• 12 volt power outlet - just for versatility.

In the future, I would like to add the following:

• Heated grips or maybe heated jacket/gear.
• Dedicated GPS

So it appears at the minimum I will need 4 powered lines. For a fuse block, I am wanting the simplest installation and usage. Try to image Lennie from Of Mice & Men hooking this thing up.  Wire(s) to the battery, secure under the seat, then wire to the accessories.

The ones that I have looked at but seem to be either overkill or overly complicated. PDM60 for example. My friend (scguy) bought the PDM60 and appears to have had nothing but trouble with it. Even if it was a perfect solution, it is pretty expensive and requires Windows to program it. I know I will not need that level of control over it. Then there is the "roll your own" Eastern Beaver setups. This looks like the route that mello dude would go. But the installation makes me uncomfortable.

So what do you guys recommend? 

I have used the Blue Sea (marine grade fuse panel - very large compared to currently available solutions) the FZ1 Fuze Block (better than the Blue Sea and slightly smaller to fit in tight sections of a motorcycle) and the current PDM-60.

The PDM is current tech and more expensive, also features Canbus connectivity which is overkill for 5/6G VFR's but may be useful for your bike.

The PDM-60 is also programmable for powered by key, powered always, ground triggered or positive wire triggered and the circuit ampacity can be customized for each circuit (as long as the changes to the 5 circuits individual amperage draw does not exceed a total of 60 amps).

Hard to go wrong with a PDM-60 if you have the cash to spare. If the spend is too much (and you don't need canbus connectivity) the FZ1 is very good alternative.

This is what I used: http://www.wiremybik...-kit-p-269.html

Very simple, meets your requirements and affordable.

I also have a BlueSea box on my 5th gen.  Pictures in my Gallery.  I installed it about ten years ago and it is still purring. I keep adding more crap to include a Radar Detector and USB plug last year.

Check out http://www.wiremybike.com/ for less expensive options. 

I also have a FZ1 block on another bike and this would be my choice if the high end PDM-60 is not viable due to cost.

http://www.fuzeblocks.com/

I like the Fuzeblock setup as you do not need to also wire in a relay to your block.

I have the eastern beaver pc8, had it on my hawk and moved it to the vfr. Haven't had any problems at all with it. I have my battery tender tail hooked to one of the constants, then i have a plug for heated gear, my voltmeter, and a usb charger on the dash hooked up to switched power.

Im happy with it, its a quality piece. I still need to buy another one for my hawk.

Hard to go wrong with a PDM-60 if you have the cash to spare. If the spend is too much (and you don't need canbus connectivity) the FZ1 is very good alternative.

I definitely cannot do the PDM-60. It requires a Windows PC to program it. I only have Linux installations at home. I should have clarified that in my post.

I have the eastern beaver pc8, had it on my hawk and moved it to the vfr. Haven't had any problems at all with it. I have my battery tender tail hooked to one of the constants, then i have a plug for heated gear, my voltmeter, and a usb charger on the dash hooked up to switched power.

Emphasis mine - You can keep a bike on a tender through the fuse block? Am I understanding you correctly? That's pretty cool and would be one less thing to the battery. 

The FZ1 keeps popping up in my search too. That might be something to warrant more reading.

Thanks for all the input.

 
Emphasis mine - You can keep a bike on a tender through the fuse block? Am I understanding you correctly? That's pretty cool and would be one less thing to the battery. 
 
The FZ1 keeps popping up in my search too. That might be something to warrant more reading.
 
Thanks for all the input.[/quote]


Yup, the only thing connected to my battery is the pc8. I also use the tender lead with an adapter to charge stuff in my saddlebags overnight when im camping.

There really should be a more modern module than the PDM60. It's 2015 and the most advanced power module requires a physical USB connection to Windows. Seems like it wouldn't be that hard to make it Bluetooth programmable with a matching app in addition to USB for those a little more old school.

I just use a simple 4 fuse block from (member) Tightwad's website wiremybike. Takes power off the battery and a relay from the tag light turns it on and off. Not fancy, but I'm only powering grip heaters a USB charger and heated gear pigtail.

For one of your original questions re relays, they are what provide the switched power. The relay has two parts, a low power coil that is an electromagnet and switched contacts for the high power side. The low power coil can be connected to an existing circuit that only comes on when the bike is running. One side of the contacts goes straight to the battery and the other goes to your load. When the coil is activated, the contacts close and provide power to your load without overloading one of the bike's circuits.

Essentially it is just like running things like you were but with an automatic switch to prevent battery drain when the engine is off.

The FZ1 is neat in that you run two lines to the battery and one to the taillight so it knows when the bike is running. Inside the box, the positive from the battery supplies a 12v bus and also goes to one contact of a relay to make a switched bus. When the taillight is on, both busses are live.

The neat thing is that they've laid it out so that each fuse holder has three receptacles instead of two. The left one is constant power, right is switched power and centre is your load. If you put your fuse on the left side, your load is always live. Move it to the right side and it's only live when the bike is running. This makes it easy to hook up an SAE connector and use it for switched gear in the riding season, then slide the fuse over and use it for your tender over the winter. Kinda slick.

This is what I used: http://www.wiremybik...-kit-p-269.html

Very simple, meets your requirements and affordable.

My experience as well. Fitted 6+ years ago and has been reliable.  Simplicity and compactness other attributes.  I use a Powerlet outlet which fits in the steering stem for temporary or occassional accessories, very convenient.

This is what I used: http://www.wiremybik...-kit-p-269.html

Very simple, meets your requirements and affordable.

My experience as well. Fitted 6+ years ago and has been reliable.  Simplicity and compactness other attributes.  I use a Powerlet outlet which fits in the steering stem for temporary or occassional accessories, very convenient.

Oh yes, I was skimming and missed Conedodger's post. It's what I'm running as well.

For one of your original questions re relays, they are what provide the switched power. The relay has two parts, a low power coil that is an electromagnet and switched contacts for the high power side. The low power coil can be connected to an existing circuit that only comes on when the bike is running. One side of the contacts goes straight to the battery and the other goes to your load. When the coil is activated, the contacts close and provide power to your load without overloading one of the bike's circuits.

Essentially it is just like running things like you were but with an automatic switch to prevent battery drain when the engine is off.

The FZ1 is neat in that you run two lines to the battery and one to the taillight so it knows when the bike is running. Inside the box, the positive from the battery supplies a 12v bus and also goes to one contact of a relay to make a switched bus. When the taillight is on, both busses are live.

The neat thing is that they've laid it out so that each fuse holder has three receptacles instead of two. The left one is constant power, right is switched power and centre is your load. If you put your fuse on the left side, your load is always live. Move it to the right side and it's only live when the bike is running. This makes it easy to hook up an SAE connector and use it for switched gear in the riding season, then slide the fuse over and use it for your tender over the winter. Kinda slick.

That is the best explantion I have read yet. I know it may sound obvious to most, but I am really ignorant of these things. That makes a lot of sense. The tailight part makes sense now too. I thought it was drawing power from that circut, but it is only for an indication. 

So one more question - do you have to cut/splice into the tailight wire?

EDIT

Just found these - http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/B00389UT3I

Awesome. Even I don't think I could screw those up.

I also use the PC8 from Eastern Beaver. Everything is easy to hook up and offers switched and I switched circuits along with all the fuses and connections prewired. Very slick.

  I use a Powerlet outlet which fits in the steering stem for temporary or occassional accessories, very convenient.

I have the same set up - love it.  I also use it to connect my battery tender in the garage - saves having a wire hanging out loose. 

I use the Denali PowerHub2 fuse block available from TwistedThrottle.com. Similar to the FZ1. All my accessories run from it - heated gear, Battery Tender, USB, and RD power. Has 6 fused, 15A circuits, each able to be direct (always on) or switched. Basic fuse block install is easy, but getting the accessories connected to it properly (routed, soldered, insulated and sleeved) took all day. Here's my install and a picture of the unit with the cover off.

Attached Images

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For one of your original questions re relays, they are what provide the switched power. The relay has two parts, a low power coil that is an electromagnet and switched contacts for the high power side. The low power coil can be connected to an existing circuit that only comes on when the bike is running. One side of the contacts goes straight to the battery and the other goes to your load. When the coil is activated, the contacts close and provide power to your load without overloading one of the bike's circuits.

Essentially it is just like running things like you were but with an automatic switch to prevent battery drain when the engine is off.

The FZ1 is neat in that you run two lines to the battery and one to the taillight so it knows when the bike is running. Inside the box, the positive from the battery supplies a 12v bus and also goes to one contact of a relay to make a switched bus. When the taillight is on, both busses are live.

The neat thing is that they've laid it out so that each fuse holder has three receptacles instead of two. The left one is constant power, right is switched power and centre is your load. If you put your fuse on the left side, your load is always live. Move it to the right side and it's only live when the bike is running. This makes it easy to hook up an SAE connector and use it for switched gear in the riding season, then slide the fuse over and use it for your tender over the winter. Kinda slick.

That is the best explantion I have read yet. I know it may sound obvious to most, but I am really ignorant of these things. That makes a lot of sense. The tailight part makes sense now too. I thought it was drawing power from that circut, but it is only for an indication. 

So one more question - do you have to cut/splice into the tailight wire?

EDIT

Just found these - http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/B00389UT3I

Awesome. Even I don't think I could screw those up.

Here is my splice into the taillight wire for a 5th gen lead to the relay.  Somewhere on VFRD you can find the wiring diagram for your bike.

I go a whole different route and it is a fraction of the cost of a sealed fuse panel and is just basic wiring.

Rely from the battery.

Six pack fuse block.

I usually set four fuses to shut off with the bike and two to be hot always.

Bike Key:

1. Heated Grips

2. Heated gear rider

3. Heated gear Passenger

4.

Always on:

1. Chatterbox charger

2. RADAR Detector - HARD System

Entire set up is under 20.00.

I have a PDM unit here which a friend purchased and installed on his KLR. He made it 500 miles and it was fried when he arrived.

Couple of hundred dollars gone. I rewired his bike with my stuff and he had a successful trip with no power issues.

You can pay more. But the functions are the same.

I will even go a step further and say, you make a trip to the mountains, I will help you set up your bike.

I have all of the hardware here and ready to go.

[image: $_57.JPG]

[image: $_57.JPG]

I will even go a step further and say, you make a trip to the mountains, I will help you set up your bike.

I have all of the hardware here and ready to go.

Man, this is what I love about the motorcycle community. I have had several offers of hands on help! Thank you, really. This is one of those things that I am going to get my hands dirty with and try to learn from though. 

I admire people that can do the "roll your own" route!

I got the Blue Sea fuse block and while it works great, it is pretty big. I've also got a PC8 from Eastern Beaver that I've just never got around to using. I really should since it is much smaller, but haven't yet.

This is what I used: http://www.wiremybik...-kit-p-269.html

Very simple, meets your requirements and affordable.

+1 on the Wiremybike block.  I have this working just perfectly and I'm not the smartest tool in the box.

This is what I used: http://www.wiremybik...-kit-p-269.html

Very simple, meets your requirements and affordable.

+1 on the Wiremybike block.  I have this working just perfectly and I'm not the smartest tool in the box.

That is exactly my setup, just more money.

Mine is a 40AMP, I add a 25AMP master fuse off of the battery for safety.

Maybe the max I draw is 15AMps with both of us in heated gear.

Below is the one I am currently building for my BMW farkles.

[image: fuseblock.jpg]

This is what I used: http://www.wiremybik...-kit-p-269.html

Very simple, meets your requirements and affordable.

+1 on the Wiremybike block.  I have this working just perfectly and I'm not the smartest tool in the box.

Me too. Installed it along with a VFRness. Joshua at wire-my-bike was hugely helpful and provided excellent customer support.

When I first did this on my 5th gen about ten years ago I looked at a basic diagram on this site below.

http://www.canyoncha...neric/relay.php

This may help to understand the big picture. I just jumped in at that point and my first relay aux fuse box (BlueSea) is still working flawlessly a decade latter. As described above I also downloaded the VFR wiring diagram from VFRD.

My Tales of Zumo thread describes the wiring although some of my pictures have gone into the ether.  Really anybody can do this you just have to jump into the pool!!!!!!!!!

Here's my .02 cents.

Denali Powerhub 2 Fuse Block Installation

You can set any of the power leads to switched or un-switched based upon where you put the fuse for each lead. You can also use a battery tender through it. It has a replaceable relay.  It comes with a Posi-Tap connector (to tap into power from your license plate light). I have not had any issues with it so far other than the one of the small rubber bands that holds the cover on the unit broke.

Post  #152 (Swiss Army Knife Solution; Quick Disconnect - Voltmeter, USB Charger, Battery Tender, Cigarette Adapter, Etc.)

I really like this setup for the versatility. Also note the lead to the tail of the bike to an additional SAE connector.

Pos t #94 (Ball Mount)

This ball mount has worked perfectly from the moment it was installed. I think huntingguns (the designer) has since improved it even more.

I have a SENA SMH5-FM bluetooth headset. I use it along with my phone, resting in an X-Grip Ram Mount, connected to a USB power supply (as seen in Post #152 above) to run voice controlled music, radio, GPS, phone calls, text and intercom). I also have a voltmeter (on the other SAE quick disconnect connector) and the SAE quick disconnect on the tail of the bike can be used to charge the battery or run/charge any other device or gear (i.e. heated gear).

Damn! Your undertray is clean! Nice wiring too, very professional looking.

I've admitted it several times before, I am ignorant about many things, Electricity being at the top of the list. In the past, I had multiple things running straight to the battery for power. This time I told myself that I would do it right. So I started looking into fuse blocks. This is where the problem begins. It's not that I am having trouble finding them online, I am finding too much and I am going into information overload. I don't get what a relay is and why it is necessary or why it isn't part of the fuse block.  It's like explaining hard disk partitioning to someone who doesn't understand bit sizes much less file allocation tables.

I'm surprised that someone who knows what a FAT is can't wrap his head around electrical plumbing.

All a relay is, is a switch.  A pushbutton switch, except instead of your finger pushing the button, it's an electromagnet.  Send power to the magnet and the switch contacts close.  And you only need it if you're switching large amounts of power, like an aftermarket horn, or if you're running switched power to heated gear/grips. in which case the trigger power to the relay would be driven from something like the taillight circuit.  The puny wires and small contacts of handlebar switches aren't made for that much power.  So the idea is, the puny pushbutton wires operate the relay's electromagnet, and the bigger switch contacts in the relay and bigger wires going to and from the relay's contacts take care of the higher power.

The fancy fuse blocks and programmable logic controllers are all nice, and look sexy when the seat is off in the parking lot on cruise night, but in the end, anything that reliably gets the electrons where they're going and back is all you really need.

Years and years ago I bought a Blue Sea block, had all kinds of lofty ideas.  Then I realized how much room it took under the seat.  It's still in a drawer in my office.

Powerlet ran straight to the battery.  Heated gear connected to the Powerlet, and since it wasn't switched, the Powerlet could be used as a battery charging point.

The power to the rest of my stuff - garage opener, GPS receiver and alarm - was managed by distributing it through a few old battery bolts and nuts wrapped up in weatherproof stretchy electrical tape and zip-tied to the side of the battery tray.  And a decade later it all stayed perfectly reliable and absolutely corrosion-free.  One nut/bolt as a binding post for wiring to/from battery +, another for battery - (mainly for the alarm) and one more tapped off the taillight for the GPS and garage opener.

Can't see it until the side cover comes off so only my mechanic and I know how ghetto it is.

I have an FZ1 on three of my bikes and love them, never had an issue either.   :beer:

On VFR

[image: IMG_5811.JPG]

On ST1300

[image: IMG_5815.JPG]

I use the Denali PowerHub2 fuse block available from TwistedThrottle.com. Similar to the FZ1. All my accessories run from it - heated gear, Battery Tender, USB, and RD power. Has 6 fused, 15A circuits, each able to be direct (always on) or switched. Basic fuse block install is easy, but getting the accessories connected to it properly (routed, soldered, insulated and sleeved) took all day. Here's my install and a picture of the unit with the cover off.

I use the Denali PowerHub2 fuse block available from TwistedThrottle.com. Similar to the FZ1. All my accessories run from it - heated gear, Battery Tender, USB, and RD power. Has 6 fused, 15A circuits, each able to be direct (always on) or switched. Basic fuse block install is easy, but getting the accessories connected to it properly (routed, soldered, insulated and sleeved) took all day. Here's my install and a picture of the unit with the cover off.

Just a heads up to anyone who has the Denali powerhub. I installed one last year to run my voltmeter, Gps,and heated vest .Everything was working fine until fall came and I started to use the heat. After a few weeks my volt meter started flickering and the heat would cut out, until finally it quits altogether. Upon inspection things seemed ok. After alot of head scratching I found the problem. The power supply from the battery is a nice heavy #10 wire with a silicone sheath, good quality. The plug at the relay was a small spade connector meant for maybe a #14 wire with a gob of solder holding it together, no crimp. The resistance made enough heat to melt the solder and cause an intermittent connection. 

Up here in Canada I paid over $100 for this, was not impressed. 

I use the Denali PowerHub2 fuse block available from TwistedThrottle.com. Similar to the FZ1. All my accessories run from it - heated gear, Battery Tender, USB, and RD power. Has 6 fused, 15A circuits, each able to be direct (always on) or switched. Basic fuse block install is easy, but getting the accessories connected to it properly (routed, soldered, insulated and sleeved) took all day. Here's my install and a picture of the unit with the cover off.

 
 

I use the Denali PowerHub2 fuse block available from TwistedThrottle.com. Similar to the FZ1. All my accessories run from it - heated gear, Battery Tender, USB, and RD power. Has 6 fused, 15A circuits, each able to be direct (always on) or switched. Basic fuse block install is easy, but getting the accessories connected to it properly (routed, soldered, insulated and sleeved) took all day. Here's my install and a picture of the unit with the cover off.

Just a heads up to anyone who has the Denali powerhub. I installed one last year to run my voltmeter, Gps,and heated vest .Everything was working fine until fall came and I started to use the heat. After a few weeks my volt meter started flickering and the heat would cut out, until finally it quits altogether. Upon inspection things seemed ok. After alot of head scratching I found the problem. The power supply from the battery is a nice heavy #10 wire with a silicone sheath, good quality. The plug at the relay was a small spade connector meant for maybe a #14 wire with a gob of solder holding it together, no crimp. The resistance made enough heat to melt the solder and cause an intermittent connection. 
Up here in Canada I paid over $100 for this, was not impressed.

Im absolutely not familiar with the denali setup, but i have the pc8 and im an electrician by trade,
I remember being quite happy with the workmanship on my pc8 wiring harness, it's done properly, as 6 yrs and 2 bikes have proven. Crimps, done properly, are better than solder, part of that is because lots of people who think they know how to solder have no clue, crimping has the same problem as well, people using shitty needlenose pliers to crimp. You cant pull apart a compression connection done properly, the wire will break first, espicially with these small guage wires were dealing with. Both methods done to perfection, as an electrician, I'll still take properly done crimps when it comes to durability. They respond to heat cycles much better, soldering is best for placing compomonents on a circuit board, not inline connections or splices.

I found a good deal on a Fuzeblock and just have a simple question for you veterans.

The bright white plug here:

[image: Paul VFR1200 Fuzeblock 02.jpg]

That is the taillight for switched power, correct? Closer pictures:

[image: Paul VFR1200 Fuzeblock 03.jpg]

[image: Paul VFR1200 Fuzeblock 04.jpg]

Yes. Tap into the green wire and you're set.

Thanks Marsman!

Bring this thread back up. quick question for the 7th gen owners and then another just in general.

7th gen owners - where did you mount your fuzeblock?

General question - how did you mount it? I have seen some that are screwed through the undertray and some that are tied down and even some with industrial strength velcro.  Thoughts and opinions?

On all of my bikes with plastic under the seat, I've drilled holes through and used zip ties to mount the fuse block. That way it's on tight but easily removable or repaired if there's an issue.

Ah! Brilliant idea superfunk! I think that is exactly what I will do. I just need to make sure it does't hit the seat anywhere.

I used 3M VHB double stick tape.  Has held up for a few years now.

And the Fuzeblock is in! Lights still work, so that's a good sign. Now I just need to take the fairings of and run power to my RAM Mount.

[image: 63c32be82264810d3716e07ca6af7ec5.jpg]

I ended up not doing the zip ties because I couldn't see his to secure it without the ties in the way of the seat.

Sent from my phone, please forgive brevity and misspelling

I used the 3M dual lock with a strip on either side of the fender centerline to compensate for the fender profile, i.e. a strip on either side of the block base so they straddle the center of the fender curvature. I can't really pull it off now!