4Th Gen Fork Options

Hi,

I've been reading the many fork threads for a few days now, but wasn't sure about necro reviving years old threads, so here's my question. I see a few people say the 07 and up CBR600RR is a straight boltup nothing more required, without much other info, like is the length ok? same offset as the vfr? Do you just use the 600 wheel and guard? Wondering as it seems too good to be true with complete fronts available.

I am open to other suggestions, but obviously I like simplicity, so nothing too out there, R1 forks are good I hear, but i have no idea about the required parts for those.

And yes, after years (literally) of debate, test riding many other bikes, I finally made the decision this will be my last bike, so its time to fix the stuffed front forks, and quite possibly fix or toss the triple clicker penske as well, as I have never been happy with it.

'Straight bolt-on' seems to be a bit of an exaggeration that really means that the new steering stem fits the stock neck bearings and will snug up in position just fine.

Beyond that, you might need a host of other 'minor' parts such as the front wheel, mudguard, brake discs and calipers ... and find a solution for some other 'minor' problems such as fouling the oil cooler, the instrument cluster, incompatible steering stops, custom wheel spacers ...

Why would you want to ditch the Penske shock? Can't find anyone who managed to set it up to your liking?

I'll give you $1 + shipping for it. :goofy:

Better approach might be to use Progressive or Race Tech springs customized to your weight plus goldvalve emulators.

Hi Trevor,

Fellow Aussie here with a 4th gen. In the interest of keeping mine as stock and showroom as possible I opted for springs and re-valve for the front, re-valve for the rear. I sent the forks and shock to ProMechA in Melbourne. I weigh around the 90-95Kg mark and was prepared for a rear spring upgrade as well, Peter said it wasn't needed and he was right.

So I have stiffer front springs, re-valved and pulled the forks about 10-15mm through the triples. Much less dive, still very compliant but much more rock steady. I can feel the road texture better. I like a solid front and this delivers in spades.

On the rear, the re-valve has worked wonders. Much less squat, doesn't kick back hard at all. Again I can feel more texture but not at the expense of comfort. I've placed about 5-10mm of large washers between the top shock mount and the frame to lift the rear a bit. You can only put a few under there otherwise you risk the top shock mount rotating if it is not kept straight by the frame lugs/guides. Easy job. The reason I did this was to partly compensate for lowering the front by 15mm. I have no problems with ground clearance, but then again I don't recall touching the hero knobs down. I ride spiritedly but not that madly on public roads, no need to IMHO.

In your case, your options might be to have the Penske worked or find a 4th gen standard rear shock and have that worked. Over in the US they have the benefit of guys who modify CBR954/1000RR shocks and apparently they work super. Shipping and costs etc would turn me off that idea unless my standard shock packs it in. Only then will I consider those options.

I would stick with the standard but worked front. I don't see a benefit of going CBR forks, but that's maybe because mine work beautifully now, again keeping her as visually stock as possible was the key. I haven't read a lot about the CBR options but many of these need different front guard, front wheel and/or brakes even. Going USD is a big cost option and IMHO it changes the nature of the VFR too much. If you like the rake and trail etc as it is but it is too soft, then a re-work would be my recommended option. Going USD will change the geometry. If that's what you want and you have deeper pockets, go for it.

I'm running Continental SportAttackII front and Continental RoadAttackII rear. The profile matches really well, they wear so good and warm up really quickly. They work well with Australian "roads" *cough* sometimes goat tracks. I've seen around 10K out of a rear. I haven't been able to scratch as much with this set, so the rear has squared off slightly after about 4K. I have been riding a little harder than usual, so maybe I will see 7-8K from the rear. The RoadAttackII is the only one that comes in a 170/60 17". Dad has been running the same on his 2001 Triumph Sprint RS for as long as they've been in Australia.

But tyres are a digression. Hope my thoughts are helpful. If you have any questions I am happy to answer.

Cheers

Hi Trevor, as You know I think, I have done the RC51 front end swap on the 4th gen, and the biggest upfront difference is straight away noticeable is that the front end is rigid as in stiff, gone is the subtle flexing of the 41mm stock forks and of course the better damping and adjust ability.

As mentioned above most sportbike triples have less offset than the VFR (30mm as opposed to 40mm) which increases the trail and slows down turn in so you need to drop the front and raise the back to compensate. Obviously the front brake is much much better than the 4th gen front stocker.

There are issues you need to work through regarding clearances and steering stops etc, so it is not straightforward but not too much of a problem either.

The advantage of staying with Honda parts is that the steering head bearings all seem to be the same, FWIW

I have the Wilbers 641 on the rear and the ride height adjustment came in very handy, it is maxed out on mine now, with the front dropped through the triples as much as clearances allow, and the handling is sweet but the ride is bordering on harsh but no worse than a fireblade for instance.

Its a shame the vfrs dont have a just slightly steeper rake.

Yes, this is exactly why I was asking about the cbr600rr being a straight swap, as they people that have done it did not mention offset, or any issues with fork length. So still in the dark there I guess.

I read somewhere that 929/954 are not as stiff, so more flex, but issues with them being shorter?

R1 might be a good option, right length, and you can always counter the offset/trail issue by dropping forks and raising the rear.

Re the Penske, I bought it second hand, so do not know what spring is on it, but feel like it is way too heavy for my 60 kilos, as no matter what I try i don't seem to be able to tune the "harshness" out of it, so maybe time to get someone to rebuild it to suit me.

dogman

As mentioned above most sportbike triples have less offset than the VFR (30mm as opposed to 40mm) which increases the trail and slows down turn in so you need to drop the front and raise the back to compensate.

Yeah but trail is only one factor. Changing your offset definitely does not produce the same thing as moving your forks down through your triples, even though both changes produce the same outcome (in terms of altering the trail distance).

Reduced offset = reduced stability as well. So you've effectively lessened your stability factors twice by bolting on reduced offset triples and then reducing your trail by dropping the forks. First time you hit a decent bump mid corner might be a bit exciting...

The VFR is pretty neutral handling in stock form because it doesn't load the front as much as hard core sport bikes. So it probably won't headshake... much... But just be careful. Change one thing at a time.

Trev I just saw your post on mail list as have been away but will post some info here for you.

There is no such thing as a straight swap for 4th gen VFR to convert to fully adjustable forks especially inverted, the closest you will get in that respect is F4i. There not inverted but there a larger diameter (same as 6th gen) but come with rebound & compression remote adjustment. Parts required are: F4i forks, F4i guard, F4i axle, either F4i wheel (3 spoke) or 5th/6th gen wheel, F4i/6th/5th gen rotors, F4i/RC51/CBR954/CBR929 callipers, F4i master cylinder best match existing clutch master, 6th gen triple clamps, 6th gen clipons. This setup uses same offset as 4th gen.

R1 forks are great but you need custom spacers for axle & rotors made which complicates the process big time with the 954/929 triple clamps used, you can use the R1 triples with a special top bearing that is obtainable apparently (think there is a post here about it somewhere) so then no custom spacers required. The offset with 954/929 triples changes to 30mm, can't remember offset for R1 triples (VFR offset is 40mm).

The least hassle inverted forks are RC51 as you can use complete front end (must be SP1 triples).

CBR1000RR front ends before 08 will also work but with 954/929 triples without any custom spacers, but due to length you need forks modified which gains about 5-10mm extra length or just make slight ground clearance compromise.

There are prob more forks that work but above are what I have installed & know works, I'm sure CBR600RR forks are to short & to use you will have to make a ground clearance compromise that is the inverted ones. The early model CBR600RR before they fitted inverted maybe usable but someone else would need to supply that info.

Your Penske only requires the correct spring for your weight, you never had spring changes for your light weight when you bought it second hand so what do you expect.

kirbster

dogman

As mentioned above most sportbike triples have less offset than the VFR (30mm as opposed to 40mm) which increases the trail and slows down turn in so you need to drop the front and raise the back to compensate.

Yeah but trail is only one factor. Changing your offset definitely does not produce the same thing as moving your forks down through your triples, even though both changes produce the same outcome (in terms of altering the trail distance).

Reduced offset = reduced stability as well. So you've effectively lessened your stability factors twice by bolting on reduced offset triples and then reducing your trail by dropping the forks. First time you hit a decent bump mid corner might be a bit exciting...

The VFR is pretty neutral handling in stock form because it doesn't load the front as much as hard core sport bikes. So it probably won't headshake... much... But just be careful. Change one thing at a time.

I have hit plenty of mid corner bumps Kirby, enough to jolt a foot off a peg, and it holds the line just great, but thanks anyway.

No worries Roy, the comments I saw about the CBR600RR being a "straight" swap had me imagining that something like this would bolt straight up as the bearings were the same size. I guess I was hoping for too much. Of course I fully understand about moving the radiator and steering lock etc etc.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/07-08-2009-10-11-12-Honda-cbr-600rr-fork-suspension-complete-handle-bars-tubes-/131661364150?hash=item1ea7a0fbb6:g:bjUAAOSwt6ZWVnNR&vxp=mtr

Re the Penske I wasn't really expecting that Zeno would lie to me about it being fine for my weight just to offload it, but thats water under the bridge now. Whoever does the work on whatever forks I buy can fix up the Penske at the same time, hopefully i can keep that inside the 5K budget I've allowed for this.

Which of the above options are 43mm? I reckon 45 might be a bit stiff for the old girl.

Stumbled across a writeup on the CBR600RR front, it does bolt straight up, but I think the forks being 3 inches shorter might rule it out for me.

http://www.customfighters.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62293%C2%A0

From my memory when you bought the Penske your requirement was loading with your pillion in a million & luggage, so when solo your rear would be stiff. Also a soft front end wouldn't be helping either.

its doable fully loaded, but I did ask him if i needed a lighter spring for me. Thats the tradeoff i guess varying the load by 60 odd kilos, in other words double,lol. Spoton about the front, it is mush which is why I'm finally getting a round tuit.

What do you think of the cbr600rr forks being 3" shorter, too much?

I haven't really looked into the CBR600RR forks but being so short would probably be an issue for your usage touring, as the installs have been mainly street fighter conversions so pillion & luggage not a concern. Also there not as robust as most of the other options due to light weight of CBR600 which prob wouldn't be an issue but VFR fully loaded for touring is a sizeable amount of extra weight. I would be more inclined to use CBR1000RR before 08 which are longer, stronger & also bolt on affair with 954/929 triples but the wheel is 3 spoke (you can use RC51 wheel but needs mods which adds cost & those wheels are becoming hard to find so higher $$). Ground clearance with lean angle you don't really want to compromise much with the riding you do, the shorter the fork the more you compromise. Rule of thumb from installs I have done is you want 505-510mm length from bottom of head stock to centre of axle.

Honestly the most simple is F4i there the same dia as 6th gen & have all the adjustments required, they would also prob be the least $$ outlay to convert.

Sounds good, I imagine if I use the F4i wheel and calipers its a pretty decent brake upgrade as well.

Trev, just for your info, here are some pics of the RC51 front end from Kirby on the 4th gen.

Distance from centre of axle to bottom of headstock =510mm

There is 10mm approx of fork showing above top of helibar bracket.

There is 140mm of ground clearance under the fairing "chin".

This is the setup with the front lowered 10mm as I originally had it set up with the top of the forks flush with the top of the helibars but was getting slow turn in but I didnt measure the stock setup ground clearance before doing the swap, so I just measured it against my other bike and it is very similar so maybe the

front height is about where it should have been in the first place, anyway, it all works well.

The gull wing design of the 954 top triple allows a bit more latitude for adjustment height wise.

[image: P1010402_zpsjojast95.jpg]

[image: P1010403_zpsf6cfmgot.jpg]

Nice to see how it translated from the 800 to the 750, thanks.

Isn't the VTR1000F fork lowers with modded internals to suit also one of the simpler swaps for the better brakes while you're sorting the springs/damping?

Also there was a VTR fork brace that was supposed to fit, which I recall seeing somewhere around here.

The whole vtr1000f (Superhawk/Firestorm) forks work great on the 4th gen. Even better if they are worked over by Jamie :) Better brakes and suspension, and lets you keep the stock wheel and rotors :) Not as good as f4i or inverted, but cheaper and easy.

[image: ctdbmshpr266mw06258.jpg]

I have Maxton reworked front forks on my VFR, they're night and day with the standards. You'll be hard pressed to justify a big front end overhaul over simply having the existing forks resprung AND revalved (putting in stiffer springs is never going to be as good)

Get the Penske set up correctly, I have one and it's fantastic.

true, its going to someone to setup both the forks and the shock for me as soon as I decide which way to jump on the front end. :-)

Save yourself a load of effort and just get the front forks revalved and resprung. You know it's all set up for the bike perfectly that way. No adjusting and relocating seemingly endless amounts of bits and bobs. USD front ends look super trick, but I'd be hard pressed to believe they offer ANYTHING over a correctly reworked standard set up, especially if you're just a normal rider who isn't doing mad time attacks or hundreds of track days a year.

I've no idea who's a good suspension expert in Aus but I'm sure there's plenty. Maxton/K-Tech are renowned over here, find their equivalent over your side of the world and you're laughing.

I will just make a comment on rebuilding the 4th gen forks that have decent mileage on them, the internal cartridge stem seal will be worn out which means the oil bypasses the valving which isn't a good thing. That particular seal isn't replaceable you either have to buy new cartridge or see if a suspension tech can modify to make seal replaceable. The problem is the valving is adjusted to compensate which isn't such a good solution as you lose response. It doesn't take rocket science to know the 4th gen forks flex which in turn wears the seal & as it's not replaceable, high mileage the seal will be toast.

If you don't believe a upgraded front end with stiffer forks that have remote adjustment rebound/compression & better brakes isn't an improvement over stock you need to ride one with those mods & you will be collecting the parts to do yours the very next day. It's like saying the stock RSV4 handles just as good as the Ohlins equipped factory.

Yeah, I guess I should have put mileage on this, mine has 175K on the clock now, and at 21 years old both the forks and the rotors are pretty much toast. That said I am interested in keeping the original geometry, so F4i seems the likely way I will go now.

zRoYz

I will just make a comment on rebuilding the 4th gen forks that have decent mileage on them, the internal cartridge stem seal will be worn out which means the oil bypasses the valving which isn't a good thing. That particular seal isn't replaceable you either have to buy new cartridge or see if a suspension tech can modify to make seal replaceable. The problem is the valving is adjusted to compensate which isn't such a good solution as you lose response. It doesn't take rocket science to know the 4th gen forks flex which in turn wears the seal & as it's not replaceable, high mileage the seal will be toast.

If you don't believe a upgraded front end with stiffer forks that have remote adjustment rebound/compression & better brakes isn't an improvement over stock you need to ride one with those mods & you will be collecting the parts to do yours the very next day. It's like saying the stock RSV4 handles just as good as the Ohlins equipped factory.

I promise you'd be no faster on your VFR with a CBR/whatever front end than you would be on my Maxton rejigged front end. It's night and day, I have two VFR's so can compare back to back.

Regarding brakes, the only change I will make in the future is braided lines. That said, with decent pads and fluid I don't feel the need for better stoppers. She will stand on her nose no problem now.

I can't recommend reworked stock suspension enough.

Fork flex, yeah it happens. You're not a heavy person. To be honest, if you're going to be punting this thing around a track real hard, then of course you're going to be better off with a different front end. On the road I don't sense massive flex. Part of the charm of this model VFR is how they work at speed. In standard form they can wallow a bit. After I had mine worked over, it was a big improvement. I love the fact that I can go 8/10ths over Australia's sometimes cruddy roads and she doesn't want to buck me off. Ripples and bumps are smoothed over and I am not fighting her in the process. Not saying well sorted modern springers won't do that.

My final words are an encouragement to you to do an honest assessment of the type of riding you will be doing on a 21yo motorcycle. Just happens to be a 21yo motorcycle that typically rides like something at least 10 years younger, but that's not the point. These bikes will get you from A to B most of the time just as quick as a modern sports bike in average conditions in a riding group, in greater comfort, with a very healthy dose of character.

They have their limitations, even with modern gear thrown at them. I don't pussy-foot around and most of the time I don't ever feel as though I am stepping over the boundaries of the bike. I have tested the limits a couple of times and ruffled her feathers, but I was being intentionally stupid, like really throwing down the anchors in Healesville switchbacks, back wheel just weaving a bit and chattering, throwing her into the corner and getting on the power hard and early, all with around 7-8000rpm on the dial. Really she did pretty well considering I wasn't being smooth. It was a rush, but it required some effort because it could have gone a bit pear shaped. I couldn't have done the same with the standard suspension.

johnlondon

zRoYz

I will just make a comment on rebuilding the 4th gen forks that have decent mileage on them, the internal cartridge stem seal will be worn out which means the oil bypasses the valving which isn't a good thing. That particular seal isn't replaceable you either have to buy new cartridge or see if a suspension tech can modify to make seal replaceable. The problem is the valving is adjusted to compensate which isn't such a good solution as you lose response. It doesn't take rocket science to know the 4th gen forks flex which in turn wears the seal & as it's not replaceable, high mileage the seal will be toast.

If you don't believe a upgraded front end with stiffer forks that have remote adjustment rebound/compression & better brakes isn't an improvement over stock you need to ride one with those mods & you will be collecting the parts to do yours the very next day. It's like saying the stock RSV4 handles just as good as the Ohlins equipped factory.

I promise you'd be no faster on your VFR with a CBR/whatever front end than you would be on my Maxton rejigged front end. It's night and day, I have two VFR's so can compare back to back.

I guarantee I would be faster on my CBR front end, the better radial brakes alone is one advantage. I actually have Ohlins CBR forks on my 6th gen at the moment, I have also had re-gigged standard forks, RC51 & R1 every fork upgrade has been an improvement.

My bad, I should have known this would be a hot topic here! :mellow:

I also have quite obviously ill-phrased my request for info. Yes the bike is 21 years old, yes i like to push it like a trackbike. I ALSO like to tour fully loaded with the missus, hard bags and topbox as well, so there is quite a few demands here.

I am under no illusions as to how worn out my forks are, and the rotors are also in urgent need of replacement, so a fork swap with nicer brakes is the obvious thing for me to look at. I have NO real need of USD, nor radial brakes, as I well know my limits, and simply do not ride fast enough on the road to need them, nor have I done a track day for ten years.

So in all honesty, the F4i option looks ideal for me, as it includes a brake upgrade, and has the adaptability i need for vastly different loads.

Yep just to be very clear we are all different, there are many things in this world that aren't required but nice to have. One point I will make if you haven't say ridden a VFR set up say like mine then you have zero idea the difference so comments standard reworked forks can be set up to match the same performance are from ignorance. It's like saying some food is yuk without tasting it.

Are the CBR Ohlins forks on my VFR a little overkill probably but honestly the feel, confidence & extra safety due to maximum road response there worth every cent to me.

[image: mac pass vfr]

hey, how did you know that Sandra doesn't like Thai but has never tasted it in her life?! :laugh:

Or the Pope having things to say about sex before marriage? :goofy:

I have the DMr cartridge kit on my 4th gen

Big improvement, friend of mine had a USD fork on his, can't remember from which bike, he sold the bike last year. But anyway, the USD was even better. So do what you want, don't let people tell you what to do to your bike Gather the information you need and make up your mind, it is your bike. If everybody was thinking, nah it isn't worth it,there wouldn't be anybody out there making these bikes even better.Good luck!?

zRoYz

a little overkill probably but honestly the feel, confidence & extra safety due to maximum road response there worth every cent to me.

Psychological ;)

johnlondon

zRoYz

a little overkill probably but honestly the feel, confidence & extra safety due to maximum road response there worth every cent to me.

Psychological ;)

Riding a bike has that element :-)

I'm also a 4th gen fanboy, in my opinion the best VFR built & was the most fun track bike I ever had. Age means nothing when the frame & engine is so good & when you upgrade the suspension with a front end swap with better brakes it will match any new bike available with same weight. All my track bike had was 6th gen rear shock, forks, rear wheel (6th gen forks just has link brake master cylinder sealed off). Just the stiffer front end with better brakes improved the bike 100%.

[image: Wakefield]

This is my track bike converted back to road bike with F4i front end

[image: VFR750 058.jpg]

Was it much work bolting in the 6th gen front end out of interest? I'm guessing the length/rake & offset aren't a million miles off?

zRoYz

Yep just to be very clear we are all different, there are many things in this world that aren't required but nice to have. One point I will make if you haven't say ridden a VFR set up say like mine then you have zero idea the difference so comments standard reworked forks can be set up to match the same performance are from ignorance. It's like saying some food is yuk without tasting it.

Just to be clear, I never claimed this. My claim was about $for$ and 90% of road riding, reworked standard suspension is great.

In the future I would love to have another 4th gen and go with modern USD forks etc. I can then have the best of both worlds and hopefully keep my current bike as close to mint as possible, while still riding regularly. It's all about balancing that triangle isn't it.

Cheers

johnlondon

Was it much work bolting in the 6th gen front end out of interest? I'm guessing the length/rake & offset aren't a million miles off?

The 6th gen front end keeps the same length/rake/trail as the standard 4th gen forks the triple offset is same 40mm, it is direct bolt on but the problem is the 6th gen LHS fork with the link brake master cylinder & linkage, so really not a swap worth doing on a road bike. For track didn't mater it looked odd & to stop the link brake master cylinder moving the calliper I just sealed off the ports so wouldn't move.

So really it was a doggy install using parts I had lying around spare, you could have a bkt machined up to remove the LHS fork link brake master cylinder & linkage but would still look odd & most like our road bikes to look bling.

Thanks to all the great info here I am going F4i and am now hunting about for the bits to do so.

Reasoning for me is I know my forks will be worn out, and the F4i will give me the adjustabilty I need, a little less flex and a brake upgrade as well, that is bolton without changing any geometry. :biggrin:

Trev just remember to factor in F4i fork rebuild to suit you & VFR before install, also unknown age seais/oil best to start new service record.

Yeah I will pull the penske out and get it serviced at the same time, is Zeno still in operation, or is there anywhere else in Sydney you recommend?

Ok, so an unexpectedly broken ankle has forced an unplanned hiatus from the bike, what to do? I know, buy lots of bits! Secured so far.

03 F4i Forks.

F4i Front Guard

02 VFR 800 triples.

I'm planning on a 5/6th gen front wheel so unsure what axle i need the f4i, or the 800, or it doesn't matter?

Also a bit confused on brakes, do the F4i/929 rotors bolt straight onto the 800 wheel? Pretty sure I will buy vfr800 helibars for clipons, as I love my current ones, but also unsure which model now. :491:

The 5/6th gen wheel is correct due to bearing size as the 4th gen wheel uses a smaller bearing, the 5/6th gen rotors work fine or any rotor that matches there profile. Helibars if you want them again 5/6th gen work or any really with same tube clamping diameter. Brake callipers you can use F4i, RC51, CBR929, CBR 954 there all the same & there would be others as well so plenty of them around, you want a F4i master cylinder mainly to suit the clutch master already on the bike. Axle you want F4i & F4i spacers, the 5/6th gen will work but from memory the F4i axle is just a little longer but can't 100% remember but there dia is same

Thanks, just picked up F4i Master + Calipers, seems like F4i or 800 rotors are identical, least the part numbers match on many sites. I was thinking new rotors perhaps, maybe EBC?

Broke my ankle a couple of years ago--it's a bummer, dude.

5th-6th gen wheels are dime-a-dozen (I have at least two I could give you if you lived a bit closer!), and they more or less match the 750 rear wheel. Well, better than a 929 3-spoke would, methinks! The triple clamps affect the fork-spacing, so they dictate which axle, wheel and rotors you can use (w/o adapters).

My data suggests that the '03 F4i rotors have a 296mm OD, 94mm ID and a 12.5mm offset. I believe '02 VFR800 VTEC rotors are 296mm OD, 62mm ID and 17mm offset. The OD is the same, and the ID and offset of the VTEC discs matches the VTEC wheel. Other 296x62x17 rotors include the CBR600FX-Y, VFR400RK-N, VFR800FiW-1 and CBR900RRN-P.

Because the fork spacing on the VTEC and the F4i are both 204mm, the axles should be the same length (unless one has two pinch bolts and the other one, which can affect length). The bearings are different, but the axles are both 20mm OD.

I don't know if the F4i front mudguard uses the same mounting locations as the VTEC--you might be better off with the VTEC mudguard.

The F4i master cylinder will be the best match for the F4i calipers (though others will fit). If you use different calipers, you need to pay attention to the master cylinder size, which can vary from 14mm up to 3/4".

Ciao,

That data matches what I'm seeing while rotor shopping, I suspect some vendors are just confusing their cbr600's. I bought the matching set of master cyclinder and calipers of a f4i last night so they should be good. The f4i guard is a new replica from china, hopefully it fits the f4i forks close enough.

Interesting about the wheels, long term plan is to replace the rear with a gen5 wheel as well so they match, and i have better tyre options than just the 170. Also if you need more space in the garage happy to pay postage + costs etc to help, with say the removal of said wheel. :-)

These are the rotors I'm looking at, they list three CBR600's though. In another post here it was said to order the 99-00 F4 ones.

https://www.motomummy.com/rotors/ebc-x-series-rotors-set/

(Ignore the line above about the mudguard--don't know what I was thinking--the F4i mudguard (even aftermarket) should be perfect on F4i forks.)

I don't like EBC rotors because they are a bit ugly, but others seem to think they are actually not well made... :unsure:

CBR600F4i X-Y is 99-00. The letter codes are explained in a table here. (Ignore my joke about post-2013 model years.)

I also have at least one VFR800 rear wheel, but in my previous experience shipping wheels around the planet is really not worth the cost (or the hassle of getting the tyres taken off). Also, having never used said wheels myself (all eBay finds), I cannot even vouch for their being undamaged...

Ciao,

Oh ok, well seeing as you could write everything i know about rotors using a thumbnail dipped in tar, are there any people DO recommend?

I guess I would be ok with 2nd hand 800 ones, but given i have had worn out rotors for years buying a new set now wouldn't hurt.

Happily I have someone nearby with a tyre machine, so that will help when the time comes.

$1150AUD later I now have everything required for the F4i swap. Just a matter of waiting for bits to arrive, get the suspenders done, and then assemble. :-)

So ran into a few issues, like CBR600RR forks delivered instead of F4i ones, and some idiot selling me 5th gen triples as VTEC ones.

Now have the right forks, and the right triples on the way, so can finally price out the parts properly. All prices are AUD

Forks: $340

Triples: $250 (paid $50 for the wrong ones)

5th gen wheel (with Rotors): $250

F4i Master and Calipers: $175

Shorty Levers (2 sets): $60

5th gen axle complete: $20

F4i Front Guard: $70

43mm Adjustable Clipons: $150

So there you have it, say $1350 in parts, as it cost me a bit extra to return the incorrect forks back to the US.

WestOfBen, 2015-12-17 at 4:05 PM

 I've placed about 5-10mm of large washers between the top shock mount and the frame to lift the rear a bit. You can only put a few under there otherwise you risk the top shock mount rotating if it is not kept straight by the frame lugs/guides. Easy job.

Just wondering how you were able to do this. I recenty installed an Ohlins shock in my 4th gen and at full extension the bottom of the shock touches the linkage dogbone. With the nut off the top mount, it won't drop at all to make room for any washer or spacer.

surely the Ohlin's is adjustable length?

 No, the Ohlins for the 4th gen is not adjustable for length. I was able to find a supplier for linkage plates to lower or raise the 4th gen, as well as a few people who have made their own. The inability to lower the top mount when I installed my Ohlins was a surprise to me, hence me asking how it was done.

Go for a Nitron, equal quality & available in a range of option, including length, hi/low speed compression, remote/integral reservoir etc.

38 minutes ago, Mohawk

Go for a Nitron, equal quality & available in a range of option, including length, hi/low speed compression, remote/integral reservoir etc.

I'm happy with Ohlins. As for adjustable length shocks, based on my install, a longer shock won't even fit.

I'm in need for a lot of help with a Front upgrade on a VFR750  RC36-II  ( 1994 - 1997 )
 

I have read through this tread and if I have understand things right the easiest way to do an complete Front upgrade
is to use the complete front end from a CBR600 F4i 
Or ?

Can someone explain in detail what parts I need for a change?
Will the bike's geometry be changed afterwards?

 

 I have found this facts about the F4i front end:
 Quote:

 Honda CBR600 F4i  ( 2001-2006 )
 Differences compared to its predecessor Honda CBR600 F4 ( 1999-2000 ) 

300 grams weight reduction of the Front wheel.
 The wheel bearings have been moved outward, closer to the fork tubes,
 and the rotor carriers moved out closer to the brake calipers to reduce weight and to improve rigidity.
 Each caliper carrier also lost 100 grams.
 There is additional bracing on the steering head for more response, better feedback and feel from the front end.

Rake:  24.0°
Trail:   96.00 mm 

VFR750     4'Th generation:
Rake: 26.0°
Trail:  100 mm

dogman, 2015-12-18 at 1:17 AM

Most sportbike triples have less offset than the VFR750 (30mm as opposed to 40mm) which increases the trail and slows down turn in
so you need to drop the front and raise the back to compensate.
Obviously the front brake is much much better than the 4th gen front stocker.
 

There are issues you need to work through regarding clearances and steering stops etc, so it is not straightforward but not too much of a problem either.

The advantage of staying with Honda parts is that the steering head bearings all seem to be the same, FWIW

Its a shame the VFR's dont have a just slightly steeper rake.

kirbster, 2015-12-18 at 6:27 AM

Yeah but trail is only one factor.
Changing your offset definitely does not produce the same thing as moving your forks down through your triples,
even though both changes produce the same outcome (in terms of altering the trail distance).
 

Reduced offset = reduced stability as well.
So you've effectively lessened your stability factors twice by bolting on reduced offset triples and then reducing your trail by dropping the forks.
First time you hit a decent bump mid corner might be a bit exciting...

The VFR is pretty neutral handling in stock form because it doesn't load the front as much as hard core sport bikes.
So it probably won't headshake... much... But just be careful. Change one thing at a time.

What will happen about the total geometry of the bike if I use a CBR600 F4i front end on a VFR750 4'th generation ?

pretty much nothing if you use vtec triples like i am as they are the same offset

10 hours ago, Trevor

pretty much nothing if you use vtec triples like i am as they are the same offset

What bike in detail ?

um maybe read the whole thread? I priced out all the parts only one page back, but anyhow, as per the thread title it's a fourth gen, parts being used as follows.

2005 VTEC Triples

CBR600f4i forks

fifth gen wheel and axle

CBR600F4i calipers and master cylinder.

No alteration in offset so the only worry is the forks are a bit shorter.

rhubarb, 08/06/2016 at 6:26 AM

 No, the Ohlins for the 4th gen is not adjustable for length. I was able to find a supplier for linkage plates to lower or raise the 4th gen, as well as a few people who have made their own. The inability to lower the top mount when I installed my Ohlins was a surprise to me, hence me asking how it was done.

Another option (on the 3rd and 4th gens only) would be to "flip the eccentric" bearing carrier, which adds 30-40mm in rear ride height.

Ciao,

Trevor, ‎2016‎-‎06‎-‎14 at 10:58 AM

* Upper ond Lower Triples --> from 6'th Generation ( 2002 -2013 ) VFR800 VTEC 

* Forks --> from CBR600 F4i ( 2001-2006 )

* Wheel  --> from 5'th Generation ( 1998-2001 ) VFR800Fi
* Wheel axle  --> from CBR600 F4i ( 2001-2006 )

* Calipers and master cylinder --> from CBR600 F4i ( 2001-2006 ) 

No alteration in offset so the only worry is the forks are a bit shorter.

I'm a newbie at Honda bikes so please confirm the above.

How much shorter ?
and what does this mean in practice ?

Is it the total length that is different or is it the effective suspension travel
length different ?

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I want to do a full front end upgrade on a VFR750 ( 1994-1997 ) with as little hassle as possible.
I do not want to use a USD fork.
I do not want to change the geometry on the bike.
Which route to go ?

That looks right to me for years, what I am doing is pretty much your only option if you do not want to alter geometry, I do not know exactly how much shorter the F4i forks are, maybe someone here does.

My triples arrived today, annoyingly the bottom right side is out of round, I was still able to fit the fork by hand while levering it open with a screw driver, so hopefully it might tap out with a hammer or something.

Also the 5thgen axle is too short, so looks like I need to order an F4i one I guess.

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Almost all Honda RWU forks are Showa. They use a common thread in the fork top & common clearances throughout. The simplest way to upgrade your forks & not worry about length would be to buy VFR800 Vtec triple Tees & upper fork stanchions which are 43mm, then either a set of CBR600F4 or F4i forks. Strip & reassemble with the VFR uppers & CBR lowers. Thus giving you fully adjustable 43mm RWU forks with hangers for proper 4 pot calipers, of which the CBR Nissin ones are some of the best every made.

The only caveat, is you may need an extension piece for the damper rod, depends on how much extra travel the rod has. Cartridges are generally made to one size fits all so shorter forks just use les of the cartridges travel.

Interesting, I had never considered using the VTEC uppers, as I have been led to believe that a suspension center should be able to increase the length up to 10mm anyhow. I wonder if there are specs for the difference in length anywhere?

Also the clipons I am using will let me push the forks down a bit, which should help.

I have the F4i master and 4pot calipers ready to go on as well.

Trev if lower triple is out of round be very careful as they could dent fork tubes, they may have just been clamped without a fork tube inserted so carefully open them you will prob need to use a large screw driver as a wedge & tape a few times. The F4i axle is from memory about 10mm longer than the vfr axle your trying to use. Fork length with F4i just works again from memory think you want min 500mm from bottom of frame steering head bearing location to center axle.

Yeah maybe I need to buy another lower, will get Rick to have a look at it and see what he thinks. Have now ordered the F4i axle.

21 hours ago, Mohawk

Almost all Honda RWU forks are Showa.
They use a common thread in the fork top & common clearances throughout.
The simplest way to upgrade your forks & not worry about length would be:
To use a set of CBR600 F4i forks.
to buy VFR800 Vtec triple Tees & upper fork stanchions which are 43mm, 

Strip & reassemble with the VFR uppers & CBR ( What CBR bike and year ? ) lowers.
Thus giving you fully adjustable 43mm RWU forks with hangers for proper 4 pot calipers, of which the CBR ( What CBR bike and year ? ) Nissin ones are some of the best every made.

The only caveat, is you may need an extension piece for the damper rod,
depends on how much extra travel the rod has.
Cartridges are generally made to one size fits all so shorter forks just use less of the cartridges travel.

Have patience with me.
Given that English is not my spoken language, I have some difficulty understanding some of your expressions, abbreviations and all your slang expression.

Please explain in detail the highlighted in black areas.
preferably with Pictures.

I'm not convinced you need the vtec uppers, wait and see how mine turns out. ;-)

7 hours ago, 2stroke

Have patience with me.
Given that English is not my spoken language, I have some difficulty understanding some of your expressions, abbreviations and all your slang expression.

Please explain in detail the highlighted in black areas.
preferably with pictures




 

"Stanchions" are the chromed steel tubes.  Basically, he's saying to take the CBR600F4i forks apart, and replace the CBR stanchions with your VFR stanchions.  Then re-assemble the forks.  You will then have adjustable forks that are the correct length for the VFR.

"Hangers" means the brake caliper mounts on the lower fork tubes.  You cannot use 4-piston NISSIN calipers on the VFR forks because those caliper mounts only work with the linked brakes.  Then you will have adjustable forks that are the correct length for the VFR--and stronger 4-piston calipers.  (Be sure to use the matching CBR600F4i brake master cylinder for the new calipers--the VFR one will be too small.)

The caveat is that the CBR600F4i fork cartridges may be too short for the VFR stanchions, and if that is the case the CBR's damper rods (the rods that screw into the fork top cap) would need to be extended slightly.  I did this once on some VTR1000F forks:

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Ciao,

But how did you get the rebound adjuster screw to still reach the rebound piston for it to still be effective?

The method I'm using, as in complete F4i forks is both tried and tested, that bike is prob still in RDM's garage I think, and zRoYz could most certainly post some photos given he built it. There should be no need to muck about with VTEC uppers.

8 hours ago, JZH

1. "Stanchions" are the chromed steel tubes. 
Basically, he's saying to take the CBR600F4i forks apart, and replace the CBR stanchions with your VFR stanchions. 
Then re-assemble the forks. 
You will then have adjustable forks that are the correct length for the VFR.

2. "Hangers" means the brake caliper mounts on the lower fork tubes. 
You cannot use 4-piston NISSIN calipers on the VFR forks because those caliper mounts only work with the linked brakes. 
Then you will have adjustable forks that are the correct length for the VFR--and stronger 4-piston calipers. 
(Be sure to use the matching CBR600F4i brake master cylinder for the new calipers--the VFR one will be too small.)

3. The caveat is that the CBR600F4i fork cartridges may be too short for the VFR stanchions,
and if that is the case the CBR's damper rods (the rods that screw into the fork top cap) would need to be extended slightly. 
I did this once on some VTR1000F forks.

1. Is the only difference the length ?    ....what about the diameter ?

2. What brakes will fit and from what bike ?

3. Are the pictures from that fork rebuilding ?

6 hours ago, Trevor

I'm not convinced you need the ( 2002-2013 ) VFR800 VTEC uppers    ( wait and see how mine turns out )  ;-)

The method I'm using, as in complete F4i forks is both tried and tested,
that bike is prob still in RDM's garage I think,
and zRoYz could most certainly post some photos given he built it.
There should be no need to muck about with ( 2002-2013 ) VFR800 VTEC uppers.

Post pictures with explanations of your modification.

I have about six times in this thread, once more for luck I guess.

Vtec triples (same offset, but 43mm vs 41mm on our bikes)

F4i Forks (43mm less flex and fully adjustable)

5th gen front wheel + F4i Axle.

F4i Calipers and Master Cylinder (4 pistons vs 2 on ours).

2 hours ago, Trevor

* Upper ond Lower Triples -->  ( 2002 -2013 ) VFR800 VTEC   (same offset, but 43mm vs 41mm on our bikes)

* Forks -->  ( 2001-2006 ) CBR600 F4i  (43mm less flex and fully adjustable)

* Wheel  -->  ( 1998-2001 ) VFR800Fi
* Wheel axle  -->  ( 2001-2006 ) CBR600 F4i

* Calipers and master cylinder -->  ( 2001-2006 ) CBR600 F4i  (4 pistons vs 2 on ours)

No alteration in offset so the only worry is the forks are a bit shorter.

:tongue:
OK, the above is apparently a working recipe.
With the above recipe will it change the bike's geometry in any way ?

What about the fork as it is shorter ?

What about the total lenght of the VFR750 complete forklegs compared to total length of the CBR600F4i complete forklegs ? 
What about the ground clearance / riding height if I choose this recipie ?

( 1994 - 1997 ) VFR750
Fork suspension travel:  140 mm
Rake: 26.0°
Trail:  100 mm

( 2001 - 2006 ) CBR600 F4i
Fork suspension travel:  120 mm
Rake:  24.0°
Trail:   96.00 mm 
 

Yes CBR forks are a bit shorter than VFR forks, but many people have used them as is with NO adverse effects.

The VFR has a very conservative geometry, so will be fine. But if you want the original geometry, then swap the stanchions as described above.

19 minutes ago, Mohawk

Yes CBR forks are a bit shorter than VFR forks, but many people have used them as is with NO adverse effects.

The VFR has a very conservative geometry, so will be fine.
But if you want the original geometry, then swap the stanchions as described above.

Ok,
but is it really the same diameter on both ?

Sigh, you do not have to swap fork stanchions to keep the same geometry, the VTEC and VFR750 triples have IDENTICAL offset. All you have to worry about is height. So working on a 20mm difference in length, I plan to push the forks down 10mm, and have them lengthened internally by 10mm, therefore no height difference, and no geometry difference.

Like I said this has been done many times before, it's a very common swap out.

47 minutes ago, Trevor

You do not have to swap fork stanchions to keep the same geometry, the VTEC and VFR750 triples have IDENTICAL offset.
All you have to worry about is height.
So working on a 20 mm difference in length, I plan to push the forks down 10mm,
and have them lengthened internally by 10mm,
therefore no height difference, and no geometry difference.

Like I said this has been done many times before, it's a very common swap out.

Post pictures of your front end swap !
 

Mine is not complete, waiting for F4i axle to arrive, then it goes to my Mechanic to be all fitted up, will take some photos then. Here however is a pic of the KR750 (4th gen) that zRoYz built, using all the same parts, I am just copying this bike. Again, there are no geometry changes here. The only time geometry changes is if you use sports bike triples with a smaller offset than VFR triples, like CBR/SP1 etc are 30mm vs the VFR being 40mm.

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1 hour ago, Trevor

Mine is not complete, waiting for F4i axle to arrive, then it goes to my Mechanic to be all fitted up, will take some photos then.
Here however is a pic of the KR750 (4th gen) that zRoYz built, using all the same parts, I am just copying this bike.
Again, there are no geometry changes here.
The only time geometry changes is if you use sports bike triples with a smaller offset than VFR triples, like CBR/SP1 etc are 30 mm vs the VFR being 40 mm.

   :cheerleader:    Great that you will take and post some Pictures !  :cheerleader:


KR750 ,  ...is that a Kawasaki with Honda front end ?

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20 hours ago, VFROZ

But how did you get the rebound adjuster screw to still reach the rebound piston for it to still be effective?

I lengthened the outer damping rod and lengthened the inner adjusting rod at the same time, so the adjuster operates the same way as before.  I was worried about the "surgery" coming apart, so I believe I used red Loctite.  I should mention that lengthening forks in this way requiresthe use of donor fork parts.  But it's easy to find "pretzeled" forks on eBay, and the internal bits I needed are usually usable even if the tubes are not.

Ciao,

13 hours ago, 2stroke

1. Is the only difference the length ?    ....what about the diameter ?

2. What brakes will fit and from what bike ?

3. Are the pictures from that fork rebuilding ?

Diameter is different, but that's one of the benefits of swapping the forks!

The newer NISSIN 4-piston calipers I'm talking about were used on the following bikes: CBR600F4, CBR600F4i, CBR600RR ('03-'04), CBR900RR ('98-'03) and VTR1000 SP1-SP2 (possibly others).  Note that these calipers have used different piston sizes and different master cylinders (as well as brake disc diameters), so it is important to match the components carefully.  I just bought another set of CBR600RR calipers/master cylinder for one of my front end conversions.

Those pictures were from 1999, when I installed a set of VTR1000F forks on my 3rd gen VFR, but wanted to keep the geometry exactly the same as before.  So, I got some replacement stanchions made (easy, as I lived near a company that made replacement stanchions!) and specified that they be exactly like the VFR stanchions, just longer.  VTR1000F forks are the same OD (41mm) as the VFR's forks, so I didn't have to change the triple clamps.  I used a 4th-gen wheel and rotors and the mudguard, calipers and master cylinder and axle from the VTR.  (I later changed the calipers and master cylinder to CBR600F4 or F4i items.)

Ciao,

2stroke, 16/06/2016 at 8:33 AM

Ok,
but is it really the same diameter on both ?

VFR750 3rd/4th gen forks are 41mm. VFR800 5th gen 41mm. VFR800vtec are 43mm.

CBR600F2/3 forks are 41mm, as are VTR1000. CBR600F4/F4i are 43mm, CBR600F4S & early CBR600RR are 45mm, as are CBR900.

23 hours ago, Trevor

Again, there are no geometry changes here. The only time geometry changes is if you use sports bike triples with a smaller offset than VFR triples, like CBR/SP1 etc are 30mm vs the VFR being 40mm.

Well that's NOT quite correct. There are 3 components to frontend geometry, they are offset, which is created by the triple T's, plus rake the angle of the forks measured relative to the Vertical & trail, the castor effect of the front wheel, which is determined by a combination of the offset+rake+wheel diameter.

Manufacturers state in their literature the default dimensiosn they designed the bike to, these are often NOT correct when measured. But regardless, if you have a bike then you have these 3 measurements in use empirically.

If you push the forks up through the T's then this alters both the rake & trail. If you pushed the standard forks up 20mm or fitted 20mm shorter forks then you have adjusted the rake & trail together by the same amount regarless.  So there is a change in geometery when fitting the shorter CBR forks.

That said the VFR's have a quite conservative geometery to allow for loading with a pillion & luggage, I'm sure you have all noticed how carrying a pillion changes the way the bike handles, its more to do with a more relaxed geometry than the weight. Weight on the rear, lowers the rear ride height which in turn increase the rake & trail (think chopper here) making the steering slower.

Shortening the length of the front forks, or raising the rear of the bike (which has the same effect) makes the rake angle steeper & shortens the trail (trail being the self centering castor effect of the wheel) this makes the bike handle or rather change direction quicker, which is caused by the moment of precession. Precession (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precession) is what allows a bike to turn, the closer you bring this to the ideal angle the less effort it will take to steer, but conversely the less stable the bike will become & the more sensitive it will be to external forces deflecting the front wheel.

On a sports bike the geometry is set closer to the ideal & thus making major changes to their geometry, leads to the much published "Tank Slapper" effect where the front wheel when light & hitting a bump, can slam from lock to lock.  the VFR has a very conservative geometry, so can tolerate much larger changes, like a 20mm shorter front fork without becoming nervous, though you will notice the change when it comes to the effort required to steer the bike, this is a GOOD thing.

Now just get on & get it done :)

Wow, some quite lengthy explanation of my simple statement that still stands true and correct, there will be NO geometry changes to MY bike, which is what 2stroke actually wanted to know i believe? :-)

As per my statement above, dropping the forks 10mm and lengthening them 10mm = 20mm, no change in either ride height, OR offset. It all works in my favor, given I'm a short ass and had lowered both front AND rear to achieve neutral handling and lower seat height anyhow.

So to sum up yes you CAN swap forks with NO alteration to geometry if that is what your trying to achieve.

Ah well if you'd said you were short ass & had a lowered bike already :happy:

Haha yes, but I still feel I could make these forks the right length with a standard rear, 20mm is not much to accommodate. The clip ons I bought save 10 mm already.

Mohawk, 17/06/2016 at 10:09 AM

VFR750 3rd/4th gen forks are 41mm. VFR800 5th gen 41mm. VFR800vtec are 43mm.

CBR600F2/3 forks are 41mm, as are VTR1000. CBR600F4/F4i are 43mm, CBR600F4S & early CBR600RR are 45mm, as are CBR900.

Did the USA get the CBR600F4S?  Anyway, it's also 43mm, not 45mm.  The ST1300 is 45mm.  I was going to use the adjustable fork caps from the 600RR on my ST, but never got past buying the parts...

Ciao,

I had 600RR forks delivered by mistake, 45mm and very nice forks, I really wanted to use them but it was too hard to work out wheel/axle/calipers.

JZH, ‎2016‎-‎06‎-‎15 at 9:44 PM

"Stanchions" are the chromed steel tubes. 
Basically, he's saying to take the CBR600F4i forks apart, and replace the CBR stanchions with your VFR stanchions. 
Then re-assemble the forks. 
You will then have adjustable forks that are the correct length for the VFR.

Mohawk, ‎2016‎-‎06‎-‎16 at 9:11 AM

Yes CBR forks are a bit shorter than VFR forks, but many people have used them as is with NO adverse effects.

The VFR has a very conservative geometry, so will be fine.
But if you want the original geometry, then swap the stanchions as described above.

JZH, ‎2016‎-‎06‎-‎16 at 9:01 PM

Diameter is different, but that's one of the benefits of swapping the forks!

 I'm lost here....

1. Since the forks on the VFR are 41 mm how can I mix the parts with the parts from the CBR600F4i since it is a 43 mm fork ?

2.  How to achieve the same suspension travel as on the VFR ?

( 1994 - 1997 ) VFR750
Fork suspension travel:  140 mm
Rake: 26.0°
Trail:  100 mm

( 2001 - 2006 ) CBR600 F4i
Fork suspension travel:  120 mm
Rake:  24.0°
Trail:   96.00 mm 

 

The VTEC triple clamps are 43mm, and the same bearings, so that's why you have to change the triple clamps.

For me my current forks are RAISED 10mm in the triples anyhow, so I will just not raise the new ones.

2stroke, 21/06/2016 at 9:48 PM

 I'm lost here....

1. Since the forks on the VFR are 41 mm how can I mix the parts with the parts from the CBR600F4i since it is a 43 mm fork ?

2.  How to achieve the same suspension travel as on the VFR ?

( 1994 - 1997 ) VFR750
Fork suspension travel:  140 mm
Rake: 26.0°
Trail:  100 mm

( 2001 - 2006 ) CBR600 F4i
Fork suspension travel:  120 mm
Rake:  24.0°
Trail:   96.00 mm 

 

Sorry, I can see why my reply was confusing.  He also said to buy VTEC forks and triples.  Those are the same OD as the F4i, so you can swap the lower tubes.  I should have referred to those VFR forks, not the ones you have now.

If you use the VTEC triple clamps, rake and trail will still be related to the frame geometry, which will not change.  Suspension travel is related to the forks, and there is essentially nothing you can do about it except make sure that the forks are tuned (i.e., springs and valving) properly.  The F4i manages just fine with 120mm travel.  (A suspension specialist might be able to increase travel 10-20mm, but I'm not sure it would really be necessary.)

Ciao,

Precisely, I am using the F4i forks "as is" because I like the front 10mm lower anyhow. If I wanted to correct this then yes they can be lengthened 10mm while I am having them resprung and valved, but it won't be necessary.

So it's finally together! The CBR forks seem pretty good for my weight (65kg) felt like a new bike on the way home. Offset remains the same and even the steering lock works. :smile:

Lost 6mm in height from before to after, so it turns right quick now! That's ok, as I plan to lengthen the forks 10mm and raise the seat height 4mm to get back to where I was before during the suspension rebuild. Seat height going up as the sidestand is a bit painful at the moment.

As is sometimes the way the bit I thought would be the least problem has become the most, and that's brakes. Idiot Ebay Seller sent me an IDENTICAL Master Cylinder instead of an F4i one, so we ended up using mine as it looked pretty crud anyhow. The calipers still need a piston kit, and the fifth gen rotors are well ridged. End result is a long throw on the lever and a bit spongy. They are still stronger and smoother than before, you just need to grab a big handful of lever, vs a lighter touch.

So plenty good enough for now, but long term I will either grind the discs, or maybe just get galfers, piston kit for the calipers, and fit a proper F4i master.

All in all I'm well chuffed with the difference, and I haven't even rebuilt the suspension yet.

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Looks good.  Get the m/c swapped soon--you don't want to discover that your lever hits the bar just when you need maximum braking!

Ciao,

JZH Looks good.  Get the m/c swapped soon--you don't want to discover that your lever hits the bar just when you need maximum braking!

 

Ciao,

All good, I have adjustable levers luckily so it worked out, but yes, shopping for the master cylinder now!

Fitted the F4i master cyclinder today, brakes are now bloody awesome! Also had the forks revalved with 0.9 springs and 10 weight oil and the penske rebuilt. In the end I kept the 6mm drop at the front as she tracks like a bloodhound now and still nice and stable. 

All in all the project is done, with the result I wanted, excellent suspension, and awesome brakes, in fact it feels like a new bike to me. 

18 hours ago, Trevor

had the forks revalved with 0.9 springs

That's where I started but have since gone to 1 kg/mm and I'm the same weight as yourself. The triples look great in your bike, I'm glad your happy with the results.

Happy doesn't begin to cover it, still getting used to having a new bike, as it does not even resemble before to ride. :-)

And yes, I admit to liking the look of the VTEC triples myself. I feel like the wider spacing is contributing to the different feel as well.