The dreaded valve adjustment

Who has gotten their 36,000 mile valve service done on their 8th gen by a mechanic/the dealer? How was the cost? Did the mechanic do it correctly? Changing fluids is about the extent of what I'm comfortable doing and don't intend to learn on something as complex as a V4 VTEC.

I'm more than a little paranoid about taking my 8th gen in this winter because I have zero faith in the local Honda dealers. One flat out said "when it gets to that mileage just trade it in", and the other managed to screw up the fairings when they put them back on after the 600 mile service and overtightened the oil drain plug to the point the edges where rounded off. Add to my paranoia when my dad got the valves done on his '14 FJR1300 the dealer completely boogered it up and ruined the bike.

Never heard that advice before!!! VFR’s are renowned for there longevity so it sounds total BS to me. I am in the same situation with my Eighth gen, only done 24,000km  ( I am sure the first valve service is recommended at 24,000km) I will almost certainly wait another 12,000km though. Have been quoted AUD$1000 for the full service including valves.

TBH, I intended to never ever have valve lifter clearnances checked on my 4th gen. But as she was with a forum mechanic anyway (we were goonna attempt to fit a 3rd gen exhaust system), ach why not.

At 90,000km just ONE was out of spec (just a tad too wide).

In your situation you'll need to look in another city since your loacl dealer is a POS.... You could consider "what is the cost of the service versus the cost of a used engine should things go wrong?"   

With 4th gen engines as cheap as 250 bucks, it was a no brainer for me.

2 hours ago, lazyeye

Who has gotten their 36,000 mile valve service done by a mechanic/the dealer? How was the cost? Did the mechanic do it correctly?

I'm more than a little paranoid about taking my 8th gen in this winter because I have zero faith in the local Honda dealers. One flat out said "when it gets to that mileage just trade it in", and the other managed to screw up the fairings when they put them back on after the 600 mile service and overtightened the oil drain plug to the point the edges where rounded off. Add to my paranoia when my dad got the valves done on his '14 FJR1300 the dealer completely boogered it up and ruined the bike.

How do you get enough miles on the bike to need the valve adjustment? My dealer told me to trade them in when the gas tank goes empty...

Jokes aside, I don't suppose you'd mind sharing which dealers those were so I can be sure to avoid them? Maybe a PM if you don't feel comfortable outing them to the whole world?

I wouldn't trade in a well running and fully functional bike just to avoid a maintenance cost ! It's not a BMW ! It's a Honda ! Made to last. Reliable. I would have the Service Manual, buy myself the needed equipment (if not already available), the spare parts (there are sites selling the original spare parts online), and try to do the valve adjustment myself. Consider this : if you break something, then who is paying for it ? Afraid to break something ? Well, that broken fairing, YOU payed for it.

Just checked the valves on my other bike (a Suzuki) the other day, after 24000 km : all within spec, so no adjustment needed. Why then would I expect worse from a Honda ? It may be sufficient doing the check, not having to adjust any valve, ... and have peace of mind for another 24000 km...

Why do a valve check?  I've never heard of a VFR engine going to hell or having problems due to a valve out of spec.  There are many VFR's with over 100,000 miles on them (one for sure on this forum) with no valve checks having been done.  VFR engines are as close to bullet proof as anything comes.  Save your money and angst.    

BTW, having owned three BMW's, they were utterly bullet proof for me requiring nothing but normal preventive maintenance (yes, valve checks since they were in warranty, which is longer than Honda's but not as complicated a valve check operation as a VFR) and they got the shit run out of them just as my VFR does.  BMW makes some good bikes, period, as does Honda...VFR's at least.   Have nice weekend.  

1 hour ago, Bent

Why do a valve check?  I've never heard of a VFR engine going to hell or having problems due to a valve out of spec.  There are many VFR's with over 100,000 miles on them (one for sure on this forum) with no valve checks having been done.  VFR engines are as close to bullet proof as anything comes.  Save your money and angst.    

BTW, having owned three BMW's, they were utterly bullet proof for me requiring nothing but normal preventive maintenance (yes, valve checks since they were in warranty, which is longer than Honda's but not as complicated a valve check operation as a VFR) and they got the shit run out of them just as my VFR does.  BMW makes some good bikes, period, as does Honda...VFR's at least.   Have nice weekend.  

On the other hand....both of my previous 800s (98 & 07) required shim changes, the 98 was close to the minimum shim available before she passed.

I think the situation has gotten better with the newer engines, but until you check, you don't know. Is it worth risking the engine? Unless you are prepared to replace it.

2 hours ago, Bent

BMW makes some good bikes, period, as does Honda...VFR's at least.   Have nice weekend.

They might. Guess I must have had bad luck then. Regardless, I myself don't trust BMW's any longer, and they will be lucky if I ever do again or buy one again.

And oh ... not only VFR's are reliable : I once upon a time had a Deauville with nothing more than standard maintenance and nearly 160000 kms...

I had my valves done @ 16k miles, one exhaust had closed up, I’m at 27k now and will definitely get them checked/adjusted @ 32,000

The cost was £750, including new brake pads all round, all hydraulic fluids changed, air filter, plus the usual oil & filter ...cost includes 20% sales tax and 3 days of courtesy bike< my choice of bike

This was Fowlers the main dealer

Like sudolea I’d never have a BMW again

Not to seem paranoid about dealerships charging for unnecessary service and the like, but my with interactions motorcycle dealers in general has not been one to inspire trust. Out of maybe a half dozen people I have personally known who have worked in bike shops, one isn't an idiot, but he also shares my opinion of the breed in general.

I would be very curious to see the breakdown of people who've had the dealership check clearances and whether or not they required a shim change vs people who did their own check and whether they required a shim change...

So am I understanding the consensus is that VTEC VFRs rarely need the check?

Either way I'm not mechanically competent to do it myself, that's why I'm asking.

@Marvelicious

Salem Cycle Country service writer told me: "Nobody ever gets that done because its so expensive, just trade it in."

Cycle Country tech said: "We never check the valves on any bikes"

Beaverton Bob's Honda (where I got it) screwed up the fairings and over tightened the oil drain plug when I took it back for first service.

Fred's Honda in Corvallis, when I took my high mileage CBR600rr to them for valves and plugs claimed they did the work, and then forgot to hook all the ignition components back up, stranding me in the parking lot. Later when i rebuilt the bike after a crash I found a suspicious lack of took marks where there should be them, and the original plugs.

Waterworld Yamaha Medford screwed up the valve job on my dad's FJR. It was burning oil at an alarming rate and losing water afterwards and two visits later they couldn't fix it. Bob's Yamaha ended up fixing it.

Kawasaki Honda of Medford changed the tires on my mom's Vulcan and delivered it to her to ride home with hand tight axles...

1 hour ago, lazyeye

So am I understanding the consensus is that VTEC VFRs rarely need the check?

Hmmmm interesting point. My own 8gen has now done just over 65,000k's and haven't had a valve check! My previous 6gen had 94,000kms on the clock and that also had not had a valve check.

I have spoken to a local Honda mechanic, a maintenance supervisor and well respected. I asked him how many VFR's he's done valve checks on that needed adjustment? His answer " Very very few". He believed the bike should at least be checked once in its life and generally more frequently if you use it as a track bike. I have no doubt that there is a certain amount of Honda simply covering themselves by stating valve checks are required every 24,000k's. YMMV.

Cheers.

1 hour ago, lazyeye

@Marvelicious

Salem Cycle Country service writer told me: "Nobody ever gets that done because its so expensive, just trade it in."

Cycle Country tech said: "We never check the valves on any bikes"

Beaverton Bob's Honda (where I got it) screwed up the fairings and over tightened the oil drain plug when I took it back for first service.

Fred's Honda in Corvallis, when I took my high mileage CBR600rr to them for valves and plugs claimed they did the work, and then forgot to hook all the ignition components back up, stranding me in the parking lot. Later when i rebuilt the bike after a crash I found a suspicious lack of took marks where there should be them, and the original plugs.

Waterworld Yamaha Medford screwed up the valve job on my dad's FJR. It was burning oil at an alarming rate and losing water afterwards and two visits later they couldn't fix it. Bob's Yamaha ended up fixing it.

Kawasaki Honda of Medford changed the tires on my mom's Vulcan and delivered it to her to ride home with hand tight axles...

Thanks... I'll update my mental rolodex... that about gels with the reviews I've heard on several of those though. I have heard both good and bad reviews of the Beaverton shop... Unfortunately, even the ones that aren't terrible on the sales end have absolute garbage for "techs". What's this world coming to when you can't even rely on a guy who made his career choice based on a commercial for a school on late night TV?

...aaaand that's why I do my own service! If a hack is going to mess my bike up, the hack is going to be me!

11 minutes ago, Grum

...

I have spoken to a local Honda mechanic, a maintenance supervisor and well respected. I asked him how many VFR's he's done valve checks on that needed adjustment? His answer " Very very few". He believed the bike should at least be checked once in its life and generally more frequently if you use it as a track bike...

Yeah, if you really push your machine, I would think that all bets are off. 

I don’t know where people get the misconception that VFR’s don’t need valve checks, the gear driven cams give a softer more controlled valve seating, so reduce the wear, but most I have looked at get receding valves on the inlets, that is worse than increasing clearances, that just make noise & lose performance. Receding valves close the gaps & eventually burn the valve seat if you leave it too long.

As far as 6th/8th gens, with cam chains, they should be done same as any other cam chain valve controlled bikes. It is not a hard job to check valve clearances on any bike. If they are within tolerance then you can leave them alone, button up & job done. 

The Vtec makes it a PIA job, so people avoid it. But if or rather when it does go wrong, you will regret having to pull a head to replace a valve & valve seat !

As always YMMV.

I guess it's mostly the VTEC valves that give the VFR valve adjustment job a reputation making most people reluctant of. On the other hand, I don't think that 24000 km schedule for the VTEC valves adjustment is that strictly necessary, knowing they remain closed most of the time. Not that I would skip the 24000 km interval altogether : I do think the engineers have their reasons to determine the maintenance intervals the way they are...

6 hours ago, Mohawk

I don’t know where people get the misconception that VFR’s don’t need valve checks, the gear driven cams give a softer more controlled valve seating, so reduce the wear, but most I have looked at get receding valves on the inlets, that is worse than increasing clearances, that just make noise & lose performance. Receding valves close the gaps & eventually burn the valve seat if you leave it too long.

As far as 6th/8th gens, with cam chains, they should be done same as any other cam chain valve controlled bikes. It is not a hard job to check valve clearances on any bike. If they are within tolerance then you can leave them alone, button up & job done. 

The Vtec makes it a PIA job, so people avoid it. But if or rather when it does go wrong, you will regret having to pull a head to replace a valve & valve seat !

As always YMMV.

Been riding VFR's and put a LOT of HARD miles on them since 2005, never done a valve check and they run fine without them.  Also, since 2005, I've never heard of anyone "pulling a head to replace a valve and valve seat".  Doing that, worst case, isn't a hard job either.  But, it's OK to do what makes one comfortable.  It's all good.  I'll just ride mine into the ground which from experience is hard to do.  Putting money into a bike that isn't worth much is bad math to me but the only money I have is my money.  

Just reading of an early 6gen having done 123,600miles, nearly 200,000k's! and never had a valve check, still running well!

Post Edit - Opps I think I just let the Genie out of the bottle!

Since joining the world of VFR ownership I've been amazed at the gleeful celebration of un-maintained VFR bikes by some owners  (Obviously, it's probably true that most VFR owners quietly go about accomplishing regular maintenance and upkeep, so I'm not saying the non-maintainers are anything like a majority of the community).

But the phenomena of the loud-and-proud VFR non-maintainer is interesting to me.

I fly as a pilot for a major U.S. airline.  Having been a pilot my entire professional life I have a very strict opinion about doing maintenance on vehicles.  I wonder how a VFR non-maintainer would feel about getting aboard for a flight if the airliner was non-maintained?  Or is this a case where what's good for the goose is not good for the gander?

53 minutes ago, GreginDenver

Since joining the world of VFR ownership I've been amazed at the gleeful celebration of un-maintained VFR bikes by some owners.  Obviously, it's probably true that most VFR owners quietly go about accomplishing regular maintenance and upkeep, so I'm not saying the non-maintainers are anything like a majority of the community.

But the phenomena of the loud-and-proud VFR non-maintainer is interesting to me.

I fly as a pilot for a major U.S. airline.  Having been a pilot my entire professional life I have a very strict opinion about doing maintenance on vehicles.  I wonder how a VFR non-maintainer would feel about getting aboard for a flight if the airliner was non-maintained?

I am a "non-maintainer" in your book who has owned 3 "un-maintained valve" VFR's with zero engine run-ability or performance deterioration  problems. The VFR has a better engine, apparently, than airplanes.  Taking any risk with a passenger airplane is nuts, especially one I'm on......  Ride a VFR hard where I do and you might be amazed that such "non-maintainers of valves" like me and others have VFR's that still go longer than most people want to have a VFR or longer than most are capable of riding a VFR safely.  I've never heard of anyone "wearing out" a VFR engine after being around them for over 15 years.  

Finding someone competent to check valves properly is a genuine issue.  Finding a VFR engine that has noticeable valve problems or engine problems due to having "non-maintained" valves is not on record anywhere.  There must be a reason.  I have a strict opinion after observing and experiencing what a VFR engine needs and doesn't need after many years.  I am going to stay off mine today after two days of mountain riding brutality on the engine, then gleefully, loud and proudly, celebrate doing it again and again and again confident there will be no "valve damage" on my third VFR.  Real life records and experience speak louder than an owner's manual in this particular engine maintenance procedure.  I suspect more damage is done by just going into the VFR engine for valve checks than just leaving them alone.  I truly respect your opinion, Greg.  Diversity is what keeps life going.  I also trust mine and other's experience.  Let's all have fun with one of the best, most durable motorcycle engines ever made.          

I fully understand GreginDenver's concerns, especially with his background. I'm not convinced the VFR's valves should NOT be adjusted in due time, let alone that they'd NEVER have to be adjusted. After all, I trust the Honda engineers and trust that they have built me a motorcycle that's reliable. Then why would I NOT believe them when they determined the maintenance intervals ? Because I better believe people fully qualified to design an engine than some/several users telling me their "success stories" (mmm) NOT adjusting the valves.

To all these people NOT maintaining in due time, just this one question : which airplane would you prefer to board, the one known to be 5 times over the scheduled engine maintenance period, or the one known to have been consciously maintained ? Just asking ...

I just moved over to an 8th Generation VFR800 from my 6th Generation VFR800 putting 124628 miles on it over 17 years and NEVER had a valve clearance check accomplished and NEVER had any problems with the way the engine worked. I replaced the cam chain tensioners in 2009 and they are STILL running strong!! This IS a TESTAMENT to the ENGINEERING QUALITY of Honda. 

Off Topic...

A scheduled flight got cancelled due to a "technical malfunction". Thus I was denied the inconvenience compensation stated by (EU) law, because this was "force majeur". Since they have and are very proud of their maintenance procedures and schedules....

I requested a copy of the error and subsequent repair completion report, but got ignored twice.

Then the governnent's Transport Department asked and got ignored twice.

They ignored my lawyer twice until they received a draft invitation to come to a court.  Did they produce the documents? Hell no, they decided to pay out "as an exception". Well yippykayee KLM...

So yeah, I "trust" airlines because I kinda have to. Crossing the Atlantic is a bloody long swim 🙂

My 1st scheduled inspection was disadvised by the Honda dealership. By the next time,the cost of a 2nd hand engine was 50% of the inspection cost.  By the next 24,000t 25%

YMMV as always...

1 hour ago, SSNOWDEN77

I just moved over to an 8th Generation VFR800 from my 6th Generation VFR800 putting 124628 miles on it over 17 years and NEVER had a valve clearance check accomplished and NEVER had any problems with the way the engine worked. 

But you don't know how close you were to a failure either?

Just sayin'.   :beer:

3 hours ago, sudolea

To all these people NOT maintaining in due time, just this one question : which airplane would you prefer to board, the one known to be 5 times over the scheduled engine maintenance period, or the one known to have been consciously maintained ? Just asking ...

It depends on who did the maintenance.  I completely follow the logic but my mind just thinks maybe the mechanic had a bad day. I could never be a pilot.

I'm not sure what the exact worst-case consequences of not checking/adjusting the valves on a VFR might be, but I'm pretty sure it's not the deaths of hundreds of people.

Say a competent valve check costs £500. If the likelihood of ruining the engine by not checking was 10%, then the cost of wrecking the engine would have to be £5,000 or above to make paying out the £500 worthwhile (even assuming you could know it was being done properly). If the risk was only 5%, the cost of failure would have to be £10,000, which clearly it isn't as you could replace the bike for that.

Have we any idea what % of VFRs suffer engine failure because of non-checking of valves?

As soon as I build an airplane with a VFR engine, I'll be sure to follow a strict maintenance schedule.

Since I'm not relying on my motorcycle engine to keep me airborne, since I do my own maintenance and since a burnt valve isn't the end of the world, I'm willing to make some risk-based judgement calls. I change my fluids and filters, I keep things adjusted, I torque things properly...

Enough about the bloody airplanes!

I rarely wear my seat belt...

:D

Not sure if a VFR engine is up to the task but a S1000RR will power a small plane just fine.

https://www.rideapart.com/articles/348593/ultralight-bmw-s1000rr-engine-plane/

All just in jest GreginDenver.

Next time in NL,you get to ride on of my "planes". My current ones are all within spec.

Why wouldn't you check and adjust the valves every few years as Honda proscribes? That you--and the engine--survived just fine doesn't really answer the question.

Time and money, obviously, but that's true of all improvements we make on our bikes. Seems weird to upgrade to carbon fiber or lighter wheels or a clear clutch cover, but be happy to ride with a few slightly tight exhaust valves. Minor incremental performance and rider satisfaction in both instances.

I'm not sure of the comparison of airline pilot to shadetree mechanic. It does not compute. No airline pilot has ever turned a wrench on a commercial aircraft for one.

Like was mentioned earlier, out of spec valve clearances will not cause a catastrophic failure leading to the deaths of hundreds. 

I spent money on my first valve check on my '99 and it was all in spec well after the first called for check. I then learned (not VTEC) how to do it on my own. I've since had one check with out of spec valves at something like 75K miles. It was surely running out of spec for some time without bursting into flames or exploding. I'm at over 103,800 miles.

Not maintaining valve clearance does not mean ignoring all maintenance. No one is advocating ignoring the drive chain, oil filter, oil level, (if applies) cam chain, brake/clutch fluid, brake pads, etc...

Ignore your valve clearance. Will your performance degrade over time? Likely. Will you die or kill others? No. 

(I respect pilots, I earned a SEL license in 1992, I've also been friends with A&P mechanics) 

There seems to be an overwhelming amount of evidence that regular valve checking on modern VFR's is unnecessary. Based on so many factors, it seems more likely to me that valve clearance checks per the service schedule is Precuationary not Mandatory.

I also have a lot of faith in Honda's engineering quality, surely in the last 20 years or so there have been vast improvements in machining tolerances, metallurgy, oils, quality control and assembly consistency. Modern day cars don't seem to have valve clearance checks anymore, valve seat regression and seat wear appears to be a thing of the past.

I too, like the OP, are paranoid at taking my pride and joy to a workshop for the inspection. Every workshop I've ever seen seems to be either understaffed, pushed for time or have backlogs of bikes awaiting service, just not the right environment for an involved, careful valve check/adjustment. There is a very high probability your bike could come out of the workshop far worse than it went in!

My first two VFR's both ONLY had their first service and one recall done at a Honda dealership, basic stuff, yet I had an over tightened chain, overfilled oil, and lost fairing clips - NEVER AGAIN! Apart from that I've done all the servicing on my four VFR's and up to the point of selling or trading in they've performed flawlessly - none have had a valve check.

I fully agree with Bent's comments and I've never heard of major issues attributed to valve clearance, there may well be, but again, the odds are so staked against having issues. As mentioned, an experience senior Honda motorcycle service technician told me, very very few VFR's have ever required adjustment that he has seen.

So, if I'm not intending on serious track riding or keeping the bike for 200,000k's or more then I'm going to let the valve check slide, the odd's of ever developing issues are well and truly on my side.

Sure, just like the fact I'm not a smoker doesn't mean I won't die of lung cancer, it's all about an educated decision based on solid experience as to wether you think the time and effort of valve clearance is necessary. YMMV.

And as Bent said - just get out and enjoy the thing.

Cheers.

4 hours ago, BuzznerSuntrusts

I spent money on my first valve check on my '99 and it was all in spec well after the first called for check.

mystery 2 me why anyone with any mechanical experience would pay a shop 2 use a feeler gauge.

GreginDenver, 28 May 2019 at 12:24 AM

Since joining the world of VFR ownership I've been amazed at the gleeful celebration of un-maintained VFR bikes by some owners  (Obviously, it's probably true that most VFR owners quietly go about accomplishing regular maintenance and upkeep, so I'm not saying the non-maintainers are anything like a majority of the community).

But the phenomena of the loud-and-proud VFR non-maintainer is interesting to me.

I fly as a pilot for a major U.S. airline.  Having been a pilot my entire professional life I have a very strict opinion about doing maintenance on vehicles.  I wonder how a VFR non-maintainer would feel about getting aboard for a flight if the airliner was non-maintained?  Or is this a case where what's good for the goose is not good for the gander?

Hi Greg. 

I find your comments to be a little condescending and disrespectful to the many experienced VFR owners who DO maintain their VFR's and contribute to the forum.

Think you are drawing a very long bow in comparing how aircraft are maintained as to the pros and cons being discussed of VFR valve clearance checks.

I find all your postings interesting and helpful, except for this one.

No offence intended.

Cheers

Just to add data: did the valve check at recommended 48000km. Three tight valves. VTEC 2002. None of the tight valves were VTEC-valves if I remember correctly. Honda makes good engines, but they don't make magical unicorn engines that don't need maintenance regularly (we'll have to wait for them to jump on the electric bandwagon for that to happen).

Each to their own, but I felt I liked my bike enough to service it as Honda intended. And I had the monetary means to do it as well...

Edit: And to add even more data: the valve clearance adjustments fixed my sometimes hard to start symptoms completely.

19 hours ago, Skids

But you don't know how close you were to a failure either?

Just sayin'.   :beer:

Why should he care at that or any other mileage given his personal experience and the fact that there isn't a documented case of engine damage due to not checking VFR valves?  

1 hour ago, Bent

Why should he care at that or any other mileage given his personal experience and the fact that there isn't a documented case of engine damage due to not checking VFR valves?  

Whatever buddy, we all have our own opinions based upon whatever evidence, advice or experience we each deem to be relevant.

Yours and mine vary somewhat, which probably doesn't help him but that's life!    :beer:

11 hours ago, SweViffer

... 

Edit: And to add even more data: the valve clearance adjustments fixed my sometimes hard to start symptoms completely.

Thank you sir... This is actual useful info. If I ever begin to have hard-starting issues, I will definitely consider a valve adjustment as part of my troubleshooting. 

3 hours ago, Marvelicious

Thank you sir... This is actual useful info. If I ever begin to have hard-starting issues, I will definitely consider a valve adjustment as part of my troubleshooting. 

Yep - me to.

1. I dont want to pay $800-1000 CAD... I can literally get a replacement engine for half that if need be, which I doubt will be necessary

2. I don't trust the Honda dealer to do it (the same old story, every time the bike goes in they forget fairing clips, or don't torque something to spec, etc... generally rushed/sloppy work)

But when I finally have my garage built next year, I will attempt to do it myself over the winter for peace of mind.  It sounds like an involved process, but I've done valves before on 'regular' (non-VTEC) engines, and with space and time I suspect I could do this.

Going back to factors 1 & 2, and for those with no workshop (like myself currently), I absolutely get why so many aren't doing this.

21 minutes ago, rhoderage

I dont want to pay $800-1000 CAD... I can literally get a replacement engine for half that if need be, which I doubt will be necessary

Yeah, but with that replacement engine you have no idea whatsoever what the PO thought was unnecessary maintenance due to the infallibility of Honda engines (or plain laziness). It could even include lack of oil changes (why change oil in a Honda engine, they run well for thousands of miles without it) or air cleaner (or even worse, they bought an "performance" air cleaner and didn't maintain THAT with regular cleanings and oilings).

I much rather ride on a bike with an engine I know is healthy and well maintained.

But enough nagging from me. Have a nice ride! 🙂

Its a fair point, but the same could be said when I purchased the bike with >40,000km on it...

19 minutes ago, rhoderage

Its a fair point, but the same could be said when I purchased the bike with >40,000km on it...

You're right of course, but generally you can at least try to find a used bike with a service history. It's harder (I would presume) to find just an engine with that documentation. You're also, in most cases, allowed a test drive of a complete motorcycle before purchase, when buying an engine your information stops at a compression test (if you're really lucky, that is).

You know that Honda would have tested some engines before coming up with a service schedule. If their tests showed 20 or 30 thousand miles as a check option they would have used that as a marketing sales point. But they didn't, so we can only assume that they have evidence to substantiate their advised service interval.

I appreciate if you don't or are not capable of doing your own wrenching, then the expense & lack of trust in the stealerships are a major factor in the lack of valve checks being performed. 

As always YMMV

I might be more concerned if the Viffer was my only means of transportation. It's not even my only motorcycle.

It's a simple matter of effort vs consequence. If I ever have another reason to dig that deep into the bike, sure, I'll check the cleances while I'm there. Otherwise, I'm going to continue to keep an eye on mileage and power (and starting), continue to use top tier gas (cutting down on carbon fouling to help the valves seal well) and worry about things that matter to me.

Re the plane video, I have toyed with the concept of connecting three 5th gen engines in line to make a V12 aero engine. If in the same state of tune as mine, that would give circa 400shp or if fitted with turbo or supercharger up to 550 ish HP !

A few random thoughts from some one who worked as a technician in a Honda dealership from 1979 to 1988. 

 1st.  I know this was 30 years ago but I believe the dealership business model remains the same. Technicians are on the bottom of the pecking order in the dealership. A quick Google  search showed that the average motorcycle tech pay is $14.50 a flat rate hour compared to an average $100.00 an hour labor rate. This is about the same pay I was making in 1988 when the labor rate was $35.00 per hour. This being said, a skilled technician will not remain in a motorcycle dealership for very long. I personally went from a Honda motorcycle shop to an Acura dealer when they 1st opened for twice the pay and half the hours worked in a week. 

 2nd. The person working on your beloved VFR has probably never sat on one much less tried to perform any maintenance on one. Exceptions being shops that are centered on racing or performance tuning will have people on staff that are experienced and have a passion for what they do and are payed accordingly.

3rd. The question of the OP. From my personal experience from adjusting valves on thousands of bikes from 600 mile 1st. services to routine maintenance, very rarely would an adjustment be needed and when needed was not more than a .05 mm.  adjustment on a shim over or under bucket adjustment which would  not cause any adverse effects reliability or performance. 

4th.  I bought my '97 VFR with 20k on the clocks in 2012 I went through the bike changed the fluids, plugs and found a valve cover oil leak. When replacing the valve cover gaskets I checked the valve  clearances while I was in there. No valves were out of specification.  At 45k I had an acceleration issued and rechecked the valve clearance and they were still within specification turned out to be a carburetor issue. 

5th. Knowing what I know I would not take my motorcycle to a dealership for any reason other than recall issues and even then when receiving the bike back would go over it with a fine tooth comb before riding it. 

6th. Bottom line!  Unless you can do the work yourself or have somebody you know and trust to work on it for you,  Just ride it till the wheels fall off which will be a lot longer than the average  person will keep and ride any motorcycle and save the money from that valve adjustment for new tires and chain and sprockets.       

[image: 20190310_101207.jpg]

[image: IMG_0124.JPG]

Excellent story and advice burnes45. Having all that experience with 30 year old technology, would you think it's fair to say that with the last 10 year technology would be even less prone to valve adjustment, given improvements in metallurgy, machining tolerances etc. ?

4 minutes ago, Grum

Excellent story and advice burnes45. Having all that experience with 30 year old technology, would you think it's fair to say that with the last 10 year technology would be even less prone to valve adjustment, given improvements in metallurgy, machining tolerances etc. ?

Amen!! Just ride and enjoy yourself. No worries!  Don't Make a mountain out of a mole hill!

33 minutes ago, burnes45

Amen!! Just ride and enjoy yourself. No worries!  Don't Make a mountain out of a mole hill!

Music to my ears burnes45. My thoughts exactly.

Cheers

3 hours ago, V4Rid3r

Just ride it like its supposed to ride and have fun!

You realize that to "ride it like it's supposed to ride" would mean doing the maintenance that Honda recommends?  Do you understand that? ( Honda included a maintenance schedule in the VFR Maintenance Manual for a reason)

So your advice needs to be revised to something like: "Just completely ignore all of Honda's maintenance recommendations and ride like it's not supposed to ride and have fun!"

(Fixed it for you)

Comon sense mate!

Of course I do all the maintenance in my VFR. But if the air filter its clean at 24k, Im not gona change it like the manual says.. also I don't use the recomended oil 10w30, I use 10w40 better for my country weather..

If the bike runs fine and I don't notice any thing different I ride it!

if it aint broke don't fix it! 

But thats me, riding for 20years never had a single engine problem in my bikes.

16 hours ago, Philois1984

Any other questions you would like answered Lazyeye🤣

Yeah Lazyeye!

[image: 4978.jpg]

haha JK!!  :D

Marvelicious, 5/28/2019 at 8:06 PM

Thank you sir... This is actual useful info. If I ever begin to have hard-starting issues, I will definitely consider a valve adjustment as part of my troubleshooting. 

Oh, I have more data you might be interested in. Not VFR but VF1kF, but it could be relevant. Too tight valve adjustment and engine revs upto redline resulting in valve and piston connection which in turn suddenly resulted in a very big hole in the engine and engine oil all over the rear tire (at speed). Nice feeling it was not, and the stain in my underwear was majestic... I don't really care to repeat the experience.

No warning, no ticks or nothing from the engine, beforehand.

I'm not totally sure it was the valve adjustment I might add, but postmortem surely pointed in that direction (top end was surpringsly undamaged!).

Edit: When I (re)think about it now, it should really be the valve spring. But I might have catched it if I did regular valve maintence at the time (which I did not).

Edit2: Can't produce pictures anymore. Changed the engine for a used one (with it's own problems) and kept the old one for spares. I've now been informed that it's been thrown away by a relative that needed the space for other things, with very mint whole cams and one cam chain tensioner that at least looked serviceable. Am I crying over that fact? Yes! Yes, I am.

Interesting story SweViffer VF1000F 1984 - 1988, might be not a good comparison to the OP's 2014 8gen. Are you saying that it was too tight a valve clearance and red lining the engine there was valve to piston contact, or was it a broken valve spring that caused the damage? Don't know if this would be relavent to the OP's questions. But if I was going to Redline my engine regularly I'd probably have a very different feeling about valve clearance inspections!

Glad you were able to walk away from the experience.

No broken spring. Might have been old and not capable to evacuate valve from piston before TDC occured though.

Nah, might not be relevant to the OP's question, but perhaps to the "is maintenance necessary" bit of the discussion. I've learned that I need to do more of it than I did, but I'm not certain my experience will influence anyone else. Thought I should tell it anywho... It's a fun story (now). 🙂

And who buys a VTEC and not use the whole rev range? Heresy!

If the VTEC valves are the tricky and therefore expensive part of the check could you not make a calculated decision on the results of the standard valve check. If they are within tolerance then surely the VTEC valves would be as used significantly less in normal commuting and touring. Wonder if the Dealers would consider this option?

I did my 1995 Yamy 600RG twice myself over the 70000km I owned it and the valves clearance did not change.

ScottieDucati, 5/31/2019 at 2:55 PM

If any mechanic tells you they’ve learned everything they can they’re not worth paying. I’m always learning, started learning how to check valves about a decade ago. By now I’m comfortable doing top ends and basic timing. Working on bottom end stuff now. Every time is a learning opportunity and more should view maintenance as valuable lessons to be learned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So, "no".

GreginDenver, 5/31/2019 at 3:54 PM

Owning a motorcycle is a lot like raising a child because, as the child's parent, you're pretty free to do as good or bad a job of raising them as you want.

Good friends of mine raised his daughter in a manner that would give over 99% of parents massive coronaries.  I'm not even a parent and I certainly raised an eyebrow.  Well, the kid turned out to be very well-adjusted and very successful at everything she tries.  And, a lot more aware of the world around her, with ten times the critical thinking skills of anyone else I know except for her parents.  So was their parenting "good" or "bad"?

I guess what makes viewpoints like these intriguing is that "good" and "bad" are sometimes rather arbitrary terms, defined perhaps by norms that folks just cheerfully march to.  Maybe it's too much work to challenge prevailing ideas.

Oh, and for what it's worth, last year I had my 8th gen at the dealer for the full maintenance routine.  Valve check was part of that.  Bike comes out, I get the bill, it's surprisingly small.  Hmmm.  No valve check.  I inquire.  Old-skool wrench comes out.  I should mention he's a well-respected fellow around here who also races on weekends, and it's usually friends of the shop who get this guy out of the other six to have their bike worked on.  I ask him about the valve check.  He says the first check is never necessary on these motors but he did check them...  using the ol' screwdriver stethoscope trick.

Your Mileage May Vary

PetePower, 6/6/2019 at 7:07 AM

I did my 1995 Yamy 600RG twice myself over the 70000km I owned it and the valves clearance did not change.

And the whole point there is one good apple does not mean the barrel is full of good apples. As any scientist will tell you a sample of one has NO statistical worth as there is no data to compare it with.

I once had a brand new Honda UK test model CBF250, straight from the factory in Brazil to Honda UK for assessment, then sold to me. When they delivered it I noted a drip of oil on the head to barrel join fin. The driver made a note. I later put a big bore on it, but the front left head bolt would not torque down. When I stripped the barrel off again the alloy the stud screwed in to was very soft & had stripped the thread. A helicoil failed too. So I bored it out & made a steel thread reducer insert & that fixed it. But would that single example prove that all CBF250's were made of bad metal ? NO.

Your bike, your valves, your choice. But I'd expect a discount if buying one where the owner could not prove the checks had been done at least prior to sale. 

As always YMMV.

Just to add another data point, when I checked my pre-vtec 800fi-y valves at 32k miles, 11 of the 16 needed replacement shims to bring them into spec, as far as I could tell, that was the first time the cam covers had been lifted.

The most recent check (at 64k miles) showed one that was on the minimum limit, but all others OK. 

Guys.

The VTec valves are not tricky to do, it is just time consuming.

The special part is a little 4/5mm diameter stopper that holds the valve actuator across to allow the valve and bucket to contact each other.

I've done it many times and it is: (this is per bank. EG: Front or rear. Don't do both at the same time)

1.  Set up the cam timing and pull the cams

2.  Lift the VTec buckets and install the "stoppers"

3.  Assemble it all back together and do the cam timing.

4.  Measure and record all the clearances.

5.  Work out which are out of tolerance.

6.  Set up the cam timing and pull the cams

7.  Pull the out of tolerance shims and replace with correct ones

8.  Assemble it all back together and do the cam timing

9.  Measure and compare the clearances

10.  Readjust ones still not correct by repeating steps 6 thru 9

11.  Once all is OK, set cam timing again and pull cams

12.  Remove stoppers from all VTec buckets

13.  Reassemble cams and do timing.

14.  Move to next bank.

As you can see it is time consuming as even if they are all in tolerance you still have to pull the cams twice to fit and remove the stoppers.

My 2.5 cents woorth.

Phil

I recall finding this a while back. The guy even gives the parts you’ll need. 

http://members.home.nl/jfknippels/valve_overview.html

This thread took more wrong turns than a "which oil is best for the track" thread on TrackDayJunkies. While you all have been having fun with it I was off touring Alaska and then doing trackdays.

So no, my question specifically about whether anyone with an 8th gen has had the dealer or mechanic do it, and whether it was successful has not been answered. This thread went into a bunch of "I'm proud that I never check anything, Hondas run forever blargle blargle". and people saying how easy it is to check it on earlier generations.

Anyways I'm not going to do it myself because I'm not a good mechanic and don't want to ruin it by trying to become a good mechanic on this. I guess I didn't make that clear.

Whatever.

17 hours ago, Mohawk

As any scientist will tell you a sample of one has NO statistical worth as there is no data to compare it with.

Agree completely, and as I stated I checked the valve clearances twice on my Yammy.  And I will be definitely checking the Valve clearances on my Honda, when due.

9 hours ago, lazyeye

So no, my question specifically about whether anyone with an 8th gen has had the dealer or mechanic do it, and whether it was successful has not been answered. This thread went into a bunch of "I'm proud that I never check anything, Hondas run forever blargle blargle". and people saying how easy it is to check it on earlier generations.

Mate, I don't think your question really has much relavance, as mechanics and dealerships are going to vary enormously all over the world. BUT hopefully all the info supplied in this thread (ignoring some of the egotistical stuff) from some very experienced people will go a long way to help you make an informed decision whichever way you go. YMMV.

Cheers.

Thumbs, 5/24/2019 at 6:36 PM

I had my valves done @ 16k miles, one exhaust had closed up, I’m at 27k now and will definitely get them checked/adjusted @ 32,000

The cost was £750, including new brake pads all round, all hydraulic fluids changed, air filter, plus the usual oil & filter ...cost includes 20% sales tax and 3 days of courtesy bike< my choice of bike

This was Fowlers the main dealer

Like sudolea I’d never have a BMW again

Isn’t this what asked for?

lazyeye, 5/23/2019 at 11:11 PM

Who has gotten their 36,000 mile valve service done on their 8th gen by a mechanic/the dealer? How was the cost? Did the mechanic do it correctly? Changing fluids is about the extent of what I'm comfortable doing and don't intend to learn on something as complex as a V4 VTEC.

I'm more than a little paranoid about taking my 8th gen in this winter because I have zero faith in the local Honda dealers. One flat out said "when it gets to that mileage just trade it in", and the other managed to screw up the fairings when they put them back on after the 600 mile service and overtightened the oil drain plug to the point the edges where rounded off. Add to my paranoia when my dad got the valves done on his '14 FJR1300 the dealer completely boogered it up and ruined the bike.

You're asking a lot there.  Not very surprising this thread turned out the way it did.  Bottom line:  do what your head tells you to do.  

sudolea, 5/24/2019 at 12:40 AM

I wouldn't trade in a well running and fully functional bike just to avoid a maintenance cost ! It's not a BMW !

Well, let's see. As an retired M.E. I do ALL of my own maintenance - by the book and check everything as per requirement. 

Aside from oil/filter/tire changes. It has required a total of two valve adjustments over the course of one hundred nine thousand one hundred and ninety five miles  - one at 7,500 miles (spec = 0.15mm inlet, 0.30mm outlet. Inlet was 0.16, ex was 0.32) and another at 82,500 miles (inlet was 0.13 ex was 0.28)

This machine in particular has been the paragon of reliability in my stable. No chains or sprockets nor anything coolant related and this one is without ABS and associated technicalities - nothing but oil/filter/plug/fuel filter/hydraulic fluid, tire and brake pad changes. Oil consumption averages less than 500ml/ at 4k mile intervals (as per blackstone lab oil analysis). This bike is far from babied, it's actually our family taxi (when fitted with ventura luggage) of sorts and also serves as the loaner to relatives and friends when visiting. It often just sits at 100mph+ for miles and miles and miles. An incredible machine which excels at being everything yet not the best at any one thing. 

This thing is akin to an semi contemporary two wheeled two cylinder four valve air cooled VW beetle. 

[image: BMW%20R1100S%20almost%20110k%20-%202.jpg]

[image: BMW%20Prep%20Mileage.jpg]

J.S.

People are going to do what they want to do or not do for their own reasons.  The rest of it could almost be copy and pasted to an oil thread.  Everybody has an opinion including me.  I just don't need any lectures on whatever my decision is on things like this.  Kind of entertaining though.  

lazyeye, 5/24/2019 at 9:00 PM

So am I understanding the consensus is that VTEC VFRs rarely need the check?

Either way I'm not mechanically competent to do it myself, that's why I'm asking.

@Marvelicious

Salem Cycle Country service writer told me: "Nobody ever gets that done because its so expensive, just trade it in."

Cycle Country tech said: "We never check the valves on any bikes"

Beaverton Bob's Honda (where I got it) screwed up the fairings and over tightened the oil drain plug when I took it back for first service.

Fred's Honda in Corvallis, when I took my high mileage CBR600rr to them for valves and plugs claimed they did the work, and then forgot to hook all the ignition components back up, stranding me in the parking lot. Later when i rebuilt the bike after a crash I found a suspicious lack of took marks where there should be them, and the original plugs.

Waterworld Yamaha Medford screwed up the valve job on my dad's FJR. It was burning oil at an alarming rate and losing water afterwards and two visits later they couldn't fix it. Bob's Yamaha ended up fixing it.

Kawasaki Honda of Medford changed the tires on my mom's Vulcan and delivered it to her to ride home with hand tight axles...

Geez.. I was planning on taking mine for service at Beaverton Bob's or Procaliber in Vancouver.... I haven't been impressed with either. What's with all the crap mechanics in this region?

3 hours ago, Indiekixx

Geez.. I was planning on taking mine for service at Beaverton Bob's or Procaliber in Vancouver.... I haven't been impressed with either. What's with all the crap mechanics in this region?

It's really most of the US I think. Between schools that advertise becoming "a technician" on late night TV and our country trying its hardest to join the third world*, it's more or less inevitable. Our region gets hit harder than some because the real estate market is outstripping wages at the moment. Ask anyone in a technical trade around here about trying to find good entry level people for wages that were considered generous 10 years ago... No point in getting dirty when you could make the same money slinging espresso!

I do hear good things about Bill's Motorcycles Plus in Salem. They are primarily a Husky dealer, so I don't really know about taking them a newer Honda street bike, but they are one of the few that I don't hear horror stories about. 

* Comment not intended to start any sort of a political discussion. A) there is plenty of blame to go around for the current state of things and B) this thread has gone far enough off the rails!

This thread reminds me why I don't bother much with forums anymore🤔

9 hours ago, Indiekixx

Geez.. I was planning on taking mine for service at Beaverton Bob's or Procaliber in Vancouver.... I haven't been impressed with either. What's with all the crap mechanics in this region?

OK, this is just my two cents. Keep in mind I got my 2015 in Spokane 3 days ago. I am a 70 year old guy who has been riding bikes and doing his own work on them (I am a govt licensed aircraft mechanic) for 50 years.  I have a 2014 Yamaha FJR and a 2017 Suzuki XT 650, both with shim under bucket adjusters. I am not going to touch them.  I just traded in my Honda 2010 NT 700V sport touring bike with 30k on it. It has screw adjusters but they arent especially fun to get to. Not bad...just not fun.  I had the dealer check those at 600 miles for $300 and he said they were fine.  I checked them the second time at 8k, and maybe tweeked one a bit. At 20k, since the euro boys were extending their checks, I did mine and no change. If I kept the bike, I wasnt going to check them again. The bike before that was a 2003. Kaw C10 with screw adjusters...they hardly ever changed at all. 

Keep in mind that a screw adjuster is not a shim, obviously. but here is my take.

I have a 2006 Toyota Matrix (Corolla). I took it in for the 60k shim under bucket check. He says they would do it if I like but they never see them out of tolerance. They just dont do it. 
And this is a huge dealer who has been in business a long time.

The Ford ecoboast engines have shim under bucket. No inspection interval.

My HOnda Vtec CRV , 2004, has screw adjusters. They get set every 105,000 miles. Mine were fine.

My take  on all of this is when I carefully set the easy to get to screw adjusters on my Yamaha 650 twins/ Honda 350 Twins back in the 1970s,, they did change a bit but not much. Those were air cooled engines. Made with materials and techniques from the last century.  My Yamaha 1980 XV920RH was air cooled but by then the setting didnt change much.

Then I got a 1983 Gold wing which has the easiest valves to set just about in the universe. Water cooled. They hardly ever changed. Metals and manufacturing were getting better all the time. I rode that sucker for 16 years.  

I know nothing about how to get to the valve covers on the VFR, but if it were just wrench spinning to get to them, and take them off, AND if it were easy to get a feeler gage into the non-vtec valves, I might check them myself.  If they were close, I would button it up and ride the bike and forget about it.  If one cant do that, I am just going to ride it. I dont ride hard. I am 70 and I have three bikes. I wont put more than 4-5K on any one bike in a year anyway. I paid $8900 for the VFR. If it blows up when I am 76, oh well. I got exactly $1800 for my 2010 Honda NT700V. I am not gonna sink $800 into having some person I dont know beans about set my valves. Way too much room for error.   If it makes you feel good, then pay the money and do it.  I dont think it needs it.  Yamaha wants me to change the plugs on the FJR at 10,000. Nobody does that on the FJR forum. That's crazy. And many dont do their valves either.  

Show me the piles of dead 21st century gently used bikes that didnt have their valves checked at 16,000. 😄

Yey old Spokane Coyote headed soon for the Reno National Air Races for two weeks on his FJR with the ORIGINAL PLUGS. Oh the horror....

[image: vfr 1 fb.JPG]

I only know of 1 VTEC engine that blew up in the 20+ years I follows VFRs.... 

Turned out that the PO never changed the oil in over 50,000 miles.

The new owner took the bike onto German Autobahns (which have no speed limit) for a whole day blasting....

Bought my 4th Gen VFR750 in 1997 which included a "service" i.e. oil change after 1000km.

At the prescribed interval, went to the dealer for the valve check. He asked if I liked burning banknotes.......   They'd openeed quite a few VFR engines, never ever to find any outside spec.

at 90,000km's my VFR was in the hands of a  VFR guru mechanic to try fit a 3rd gen left exhaust (FAIL) so we decided to check the valves just for fun. ONE  of 16 was just a tad too wide out of spec. ONE.

With a used engine say $300 it is not worth paying a stealer 700+ for a check   

Why are VFR engines so cheap? cos they rarely if ever break.

My VF500F2 has screw adjustors and clearances get checked every 6-8000km's. Why?  Cos TheDutchy has nice coffee, we kick tyres, talk petrol while we change the oil and just want to be sure. VF's have a reputation of being handgrenades..... So far mine is doing great at 77,000kms. 

Recently, only after 30,000km did the wee VF need 1 adjusted  just a tad. (bought her at ~45,000)

Imho, spend your money on some nice leather pants (PICTURES PLEASE  :goofy: )  or on rider training classes. Or a -beginners- track day (PICTURES PLEASE  :goofy: )

YMMV

PS: the rest of the service (oil, coolant, hydraulic fluid, sparks) any compentent mechanic SHOULD be able to do.

Or do it yourself (for the fun of it)

2 hours ago, CoyoteChris

...

My take  on all of this is when I carefully set the easy to get to screw adjusters on my Yamaha 650 twins/ Honda 350 Twins back in the 1970s,, they did change a bit but not much. Those were air cooled engines. Made with materials and techniques from the last century.  My Yamaha 1980 XV920RH was air cooled but by then the setting didnt change much.

Then I got a 1983 Gold wing which has the easiest valves to set just about in the universe. Water cooled. They hardly ever changed. Metals and manufacturing were getting better all the time. I rode that sucker for 16 years.  

...

Awesome... I've got one of those in the basement I'm going to get into one of these years... 

7 hours ago, Saoirse

This thread reminds me why I don't bother much with forums anymore🤔

Hi Saoirse. Bit of a shame you feel this way. Personally I have found this thread to be incredibly informative. Disregard the passionate fors and against, just look at all the valuable info put forward by some very experienced people, there is a lot of good statistical info that will help you make your own decision.

I had my own feelings regarding a modern day 8gen valve clearance check and this thread has definitely helped me in deciding to do the check OR not. 

There is great info embedded in this thread, just seek it out and use it.

Cheers.  :beer:

2 hours ago, Dutchy

I only know of 1 VTEC engine that blew up in the 20+ years I follows VFRs.... 

Turned out that the PO never changed the oil in over 50,000 miles.

The new owner took the bike onto German Autobahns (which have no speed limit) for a whole day blasting....

Bought my 4th Gen VFR750 in 1997 which included a "service" i.e. oil change after 1000km.

At the prescribed interval, went to the dealer for the valve check. He asked if I liked burning banknotes.......   They'd openeed quite a few VFR engines, never ever to find any outside spec.

at 90,000km's my VFR was in the hands of a  VFR guru mechanic to try fit a 3rd gen left exhaust (FAIL) so we decided to check the valves just for fun. ONE  of 16 was just a tad too wide out of spec. ONE.

With a used engine say $300 it is not worth paying a stealer 700+ for a check   

Why are VFR engines so cheap? cos they rarely if ever break.

My VF500F2 has screw adjustors and clearances get checked every 6-8000km's. Why?  Cos TheDutchy has nice coffee, we kick tyres, talk petrol while we change the oil and just want to be sure. VF's have a reputation of being handgrenades..... So far mine is doing great at 77,000kms. 

Recently, only after 30,000km did the wee VF need 1 adjusted  just a tad. (bought her at ~45,000)

Imho, spend your money on some nice leather pants (PICTURES PLEASE  :goofy: )  or on rider training classes. Or a -beginners- track day (PICTURES PLEASE  :goofy: )

YMMV

That is the thing right there. All in a nutshell. The whole enchilada.  In fact, the extreamly low cost of the bike is why I have one. I was between trips and stopped off at one of my local Honda dealers. He had two each used 2014 VFR Ds for sale. both with the same milage. 16,000.  An Aussie couple had to leave the states quite suddenly and wanted the dealer, who is a personal friend, to sell their bikes. I think they are still there. Not a mark on them and the dealer did the 16 k service...at least the fluids looked clear...I didnt see any marks on the valve cover bolts I could actually feel.  I think the dealer showed me a print out that the service would have cost north of $850. Anyway, I rode one and fell in love with it.  The tires were OK but I asked what his lowest price was with new tires. $7,000. I went on my next tour, this time camping and riding the continuous curves of Central Idaho, thinking my XT was really cool but it would also be cool to take this trip on the VFR. I came home, had my second dealer find me a new 2015, and bought it.  Heck, you can get 6 of them (standards) in Texas for $7,000 each new. 

How many $100 dollar bills are you willing to burn on a bike that in three years will loose 3-4 thousand in value anyway?  Its a wonderful bike. I dont feel bad at all about trading in my Honda NT for it. At the NT rally this year in Spearfish SD there were only 3 NTs left. All my friends who showed up were on other bikes.  We have moved on and enjoy the NT forum for sure and still do. And all the wonderful helpful people on it and the European NT forum....but at some point even a great bike becomes a bit of an old shoe... I look forward to wearing THIS  old shoe for quite awhile....doing lots of oil and filter and fluid changes (the dealer wants $240 to change the oil at 600 miles and adjust the chain 😜) and having fun. 

RIP NT, You are a great pack horse. I hope someone who gets you appreciates you and those 8 years I had riding you around the American west.....And all the wonderful friends I made on your forum....but Hello VFR!. 

[image: A nt 2.JPG]

37 minutes ago, Grum

Hi Saoirse. Bit of a shame you feel this way. Personally I have found this thread to be incredibly informative. Disregard the passionate fors and against, just look at all the valuable info put forward by some very experienced people, there is a lot of good statistical info that will help you make your own decision.

I had my own feelings regarding a modern day 8gen valve clearance check and this thread has definitely helped me in deciding to do the check OR not. 

There is great info embedded in this thread, just seek it out and use it.

Cheers.  :beer:

Very true. We have two guys from down under on the NT forum who are very nice to just chat with about anything but just about everyone there plays well with others and respects others opinions. Some like me camp 30-35 days a year and some you couldnt get into a tent for anything. But we all enjoy each other and respect everyone's views. There is good  info on most forums and some things that are just out there....they (forums)  seem to be all different...I hope to find some folk on THIS forum who will share their knowledge with a newbie as fast as we share it with newbies on the NT forum. 

"Make Honda VFR techs GREAT again"

Donald Duck

:tongue:

10 hours ago, CoyoteChris

Very true. We have two guys from down under on the NT forum who are very nice to just chat with about anything but just about everyone there plays well with others and respects others opinions. Some like me camp 30-35 days a year and some you couldnt get into a tent for anything. But we all enjoy each other and respect everyone's views. There is good  info on most forums and some things that are just out there....they (forums)  seem to be all different...I hope to find some folk on THIS forum who will share their knowledge with a newbie as fast as we share it with newbies on the NT forum. 

All things considered, there is a lot of useful info available on this forum and people are usually pretty helpful. Unfortunately, we occasionally get bogged down disagreeing on minor things, but don't let that discourage you. If you have a question, the answer will generally show up here sooner or later. More often than not, it was already asked and answered ten years ago though the pictures are often long gone...

The biggest trouble doing valves is getting all the stuff off the bike. It’s a perfect time to send injectors out for cleaning, and access the coolant cross pipes to make sure their gaskets aren’t knackered. The valves themselves are easy to check.


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24 minutes ago, Marvelicious

All things considered, there is a lot of useful info available on this forum and people are usually pretty helpful. Unfortunately, we occasionally get bogged down disagreeing on minor things, but don't let that discourage you. If you have a question, the answer will generally show up here sooner or later. More often than not, it was already asked and answered ten years ago though the pictures are often long gone...

Thank you. I am sure you are correct. I am retired and have no free time but I will make some time for this forum in a bit and check out its layout.  I have a bunch of questions about farkles, specifically wind screens and lip devices.  Every forum is different. The StromTroopers forum is full of a bunch of great people as is the FJR forum and the NT forum, especially.  I look forward to getting folk's opinions on all sorts of things VFR. Like the FJR, I admired it from afar for a long time and then decided I wasnt getting any younger and I could have only maybe as little as 8 years of riding left.  It time to try the VFR. But first, I have to load up the FJR and head for nine days of camping at the Reno Naional Air races. I always enjoy riding through central Oregon and through the mountains of N. California to get there and back.  

37 minutes ago, ScottieDucati

The biggest trouble doing valves is getting all the stuff off the bike. It’s a perfect time to send injectors out for cleaning, and access the coolant cross pipes to make sure their gaskets aren’t knackered. The valves themselves are easy to check.


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OK, I watched this vid of the valve adj.  It is clear that the VTEC system on this bike is entirely different than the Vtec system on other Honda machines like my CRV.  Am I right in assuming this vid says the Vtec works on one intake AND one exhaust valve per cylinder?  I will look for a youtube vid explaining how the VFR Vtec system works. Below is a basic vid on how the CRV Vtec works. Is a good review of how an engine works, actually. The first vid is very annoying but what are you going to do?

Well I should say I have only done valves on gear drive’s. No experience with Vtech whatsoever.


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Dutchy, 8/23/2019 at 10:47 PM

PS: the rest of the service (oil, coolant, hydraulic fluid, sparks) any compentent mechanic SHOULD be able to do.

Or do it yourself (for the fun of it)

Hey, Ever use speed bleeders?  I love those and put them on all my bikes. Makes changing clutch and brake fluid a breeze. 

Yes, I  change the oil more than necessary. I do. It makes me feel good. And change the antifreeze with the Correct stuff. Every three years. I am not a person that believes in the 21st century in flushing or getting every last drop of the old stuff out. Take out what you can easily and put good stuff in.

I wish I had a dime for every dime my aircraft mechanic training has saved me working on my own vehicles. Hey, wait a minute... I DO!🤣

Quote: Honda Owners Manual. "Have your dealer adjust your chain" 🤣

3 hours ago, CoyoteChris

Hey, Ever use speed bleeders?  I love those and put them on all my bikes. Makes changing clutch and brake fluid a breeze. 

Yes, I  change the oil more than necessary. I do. It makes me feel good. And change the antifreeze with the Correct stuff. Every three years. I am not a person that believes in the 21st century in flushing or getting every last drop of the old stuff out. Take out what you can easily and put good stuff in.

I wish I had a dime for every dime my aircraft mechanic training has saved me working on my own vehicles. Hey, wait a minute... I DO!🤣

Quote: Honda Owners Manual. "Have your dealer adjust your chain" 🤣

The brakes are another peculiar system on the VFR... one of those things the engineers just wouldn't stop designing. There are a LOT of bleeders and brake lines on these bikes and bleeding is a bit of a chore. Not trying to discourage you... it's no more difficult than anything else in the end, just more time consuming. 

2 hours ago, Marvelicious

The brakes are another peculiar system on the VFR... one of those things the engineers just wouldn't stop designing. There are a LOT of bleeders and brake lines on these bikes and bleeding is a bit of a chore. Not trying to discourage you... it's no more difficult than anything else in the end, just more time consuming. 

A little bit off topic :offtopic: . But the 8gen brake bleed is a piece of cake! :fing02:

54 minutes ago, Grum

A little bit off topic :offtopic: . But the 8gen brake bleed is a piece of cake! :fing02:

Well... that's a solid improvement... As for going off-topic, I'm pretty sure this one was beyond salvage by page two! May as well ride it out!

Grum, 8/24/2019 at 3:33 AM

Hi Saoirse. Bit of a shame you feel this way. Personally I have found this thread to be incredibly informative. Disregard the passionate fors and against, just look at all the valuable info put forward by some very experienced people, there is a lot of good statistical info that will help you make your own decision.

I had my own feelings regarding a modern day 8gen valve clearance check and this thread has definitely helped me in deciding to do the check OR not. 

There is great info embedded in this thread, just seek it out and use it.

Cheers.  :beer:

This thread is informative.  However, this forum, was at one time, exponentially more active with many more members on TMAC rides that included 60 members or more.  It is in a state of decline I suspect because the owner and mods are just letting it fade along with VFR's in the States.  Just my opinion.  I really don't care because there are many other motorcycles out there that are very nice and I have other hobbies and means of transportation that I like just as much as VFR riding.   

43 minutes ago, Bent

 It is in a state of decline I suspect because the owner and mods are just letting it fade along with VFR's in the States.

I think pretty much all forums like this are in decline to some extent, their user-base swallowed up by Reddit and Facebook groups.

First let me state I my only experience with VFRs is fifth gens.

My first VFR purchased had 4000 miles on it. I put approximately 70,000 more miles on it before it seemed to be running a little rough. I brought it to my Very Reliable Honda dealer (Honda Town in Minneapolis) and they suggested a valve adjustment. So I had them do it and the machine returned to the Swiss Watch smoothness I'd first experienced with the young machine. So a valve adjustment was called for. Subsequent fifth gens I've owned never became rough-running like my first.

My current ride was purchased with 10,715 miles on it. Just for drill, and because I had extra cash at the time, I had my valves checked at ~ 46,000. All valves were within specifications. Thus my philosophy is that unless it is running roughly no valve check is necessary. After all, these machines are so finely engineered, they can almost run forever.

That first 2001 had 105,000+ miles on it when it was KIA'd by my first deer hit. I'd changed my oil just before that trip and sent a sample to be analyzed. The report is in my picture gallery. I'd done my oil changes loosely following the recommended oil changes at 8,000 mile intervals. Once I'd gone 10,000 miles between oil changes. The oil sent for analysis showed below normal engine wear. Their statement at the end of the evaluation said "Nice Bike!" 

This reinforced my opinion that Honda has produced an exceptionally engineered machine made to go the distance in all senses of the word.

Hopefully Your Mileage May Not Vary. :wub:

17 hours ago, MaxSwell

First let me state I my only experience with VFRs is fifth gens.

My first VFR purchased had 4000 miles on it. I put approximately 70,000 more miles on it before it seemed to be running a little rough. I brought it to my Very Reliable Honda dealer (Honda Town in Minneapolis) and they suggested a valve adjustment. So I had them do it and the machine returned to the Swiss Watch smoothness I'd first experienced with the young machine. So a valve adjustment was called for. Subsequent fifth gens I've owned never became rough-running like my first.

My current ride was purchased with 10,715 miles on it. Just for drill, and because I had extra cash at the time, I had my valves checked at ~ 46,000. All valves were within specifications. Thus my philosophy is that unless it is running roughly no valve check is necessary. After all, these machines are so finely engineered, they can almost run forever.

That first 2001 had 105,000+ miles on it when it was KIA'd by my first deer hit. I'd changed my oil just before that trip and sent a sample to be analyzed. The report is in my picture gallery. I'd done my oil changes loosely following the recommended oil changes at 8,000 mile intervals. Once I'd gone 10,000 miles between oil changes. The oil sent for analysis showed below normal engine wear. Their statement at the end of the evaluation said "Nice Bike!" 

This reinforced my opinion that Honda has produced an exceptionally engineered machine made to go the distance in all senses of the word.

Hopefully Your Mileage May Not Vary. :wub:

So, if it isn't showing symptoms, don't fix it.  MaxSwell has put some miles on VFR's and experience counts with me.