I can't find a single V4 on the Honda powersports website for USA!!! Its like a nightmare. Has anyone seen the soldiers parachuting in? Where is Jed?!
Wait. Even Swayze is gone too! What kind of world...?
All of this silliness and "Red Dawn" references (the *really* good one from 84, when Ronald Reagan was president, and you could buy an interceptor, or a sabre, or a magna) aside, I am actually pained by this. Truly. My baby sleeps at Seb's right now...but alas there may be no more...
Tis So! Has been for a long while. Honda has no Sports Touring category at all. V4's are dead, yep, may as well go slash ya wrist :ohmy:
The world, as we know it, is coming to a ignominious end. Shame on Honda. :sad:
You can buy mine. Red, standard, 17K miles, good tires, perfect condition, price to be determined.
I think I just heard a cha-ching sound coming from my garage as the value of my 2014 just went up.
Awesome. The value of our vfr's just went from nothing to next to nothing.
Look, nobody is buying these. You can get 6 year old vfr's that have zero miles on them, for less than half original list price. Why would Honda continue down this path?
No surprise it's off their site given that the last one was imported 5 years ago. When I used to go to the dealer to pick something up I would walk around to look at the new offerings, sometimes lusting after them. No longer. I see no passion in new bikes. They're more capable and sophisticated for sure, but for me that's all they are. To me most look like industrial machinery - they lack a soul and elegance of design. I'm sure I've already purchased my last new bike - my Viffers should last through my riding days - glad to have 'em.
5 hours ago, MaxSwellThe world, as we know it, is coming to a ignominious end. Shame on Honda. :sad:
Not really Honda's fault... if customers aren't buying V4's then Honda can't continue building... So, we, the customers are the ones to blame!
5 hours ago, GrumTis So! Has been for a long while. Honda has no Sports Touring category at all. V4's are dead, yep, may as well go slash ya wrist :ohmy:
Not quite true, they're still available over here.
https://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/range/sport-touring.html
Yes - sad... a chapter in history have been closed!
I think this is part of a larger problem... I think bikes are very different in 10 years - if we like it or not does not really matter... electric motors are on the horizon and soon we (and our gas guzzling VFR's) are relics of the past 😞
Adventure style bikes are selling well or better than sport touring bikes in US. So I’m a little surprised that Honda did not bring the cross runner into US. Their 2 flagship bikes (Goldwing & AT) is where their focus seems to be. In other parts of the world, smaller bikes are probably selling like hot cakes. Leaving our small minority of V4 lovers in “not so important category”.
1 hour ago, SparkieAwesome. The value of our vfr's just went from nothing to next to nothing.
Look, nobody is buying these. You can get 6 year old vfr's that have zero miles on them, for less than half original list price. Why would Honda continue down this path?
I can not see any new ones on Cycletrader these days. The new old new stock seems to be gone. It's a shame buyers could not see the value in such a great bike. Some day there will be my estate sale thats when mine will become someone else's.
Might have to move to Japan! They still seem to make them.
Had a 2010 VFR 1200 DCT and traded in for 2020 Honda AT AS DCT after around 100,000 km of superb service. Loved the VFR but when no new model was on the horizon decided to give the forestry roads a run. Change is a true constant. We have kept the 2012 VFR 1200 DCT, for now.
Just sad, living through the 80s, made the wrong choice initially: the Suzuki GS 700ESF. Spindly tires, and peaky power that dislodged me (my own mistakes, of course) so many times. Always wanted one of the second gen bikes. The third gen that Seb is refurbishing for me was bought new in 1990 (April 19), and went just over 100k miles before it needed an engine swap. That is one sweet bike! Can't wait to get it back on the road. But...second gen is why I bought the third gen. Which was heavier, but...just...so...gorgeous. I mean, Ducati now making the bar high...but then? The only thing nicer was the R. VFR750R.
Honda just doesn't make the bikes I want to buy anymore. I'll always love the 5th gen VFRs but the other manufacturers are making more inspiring motorcycles these days. Honda could out do Aprilia Factory V4 Tuono if they wanted to. They don't so I bought the Aprilia and it is wickedly sweet. Oh and so is my 99 Factory VFR800 after somebody poured thousands into it and I bought it for less than the upgrades cost. The other stinging truth is that often when Honda has built the bike we Americans had seemed to be begging them for we rewarded them with not buying them. Hopefully they perfect the CBRs inline fours. My FZ1 made me a huge fan of that motor configuration without question as did Triumph turning me on with their street triple.
Big H has perfected the CBR but then made the new 1 quite pricey US$$$$$30K/AU$50K, then neutered it for the American market 214hp⬇180ish hp , then don't even bring out the base model (RRRRR-R SP only) etc.
And that's if you can get 1, approx 50 for US market
SMH
It seems the biggest problem with the VFR is Honda has essentially been selling a re-skinned version of the same bike for 20 years now. Yes, the minor tweaks and refinements have been nice, but it's specs just don't stand up against other bikes of the past 10 years - especially it's suspension and weight!
Until Honda commits to an all-new VFR (hopefully a 900cc version), that weighs around 430 lbs dry, 125 hp (minimum), and has fully adjustable suspension front and rear, they won't sell.
Hopefully Ducati's focus on the V4 will spark Honda to finally completely update the VFR.
thepretender, 2/17/2020 at 1:42 PMI can not see any new ones on Cycletrader these days. The new old new stock seems to be gone. It's a shame buyers could not see the value in such a great bike. Some day there will be my estate sale thats when mine will become someone else's.
They pulled the unsold bikes off the showroom floors and have been selling them at vehicle auctions. Nobody wants them. It's a 20+ year old design and wasn't popular ever. I ride one and like it, but I don't know anyone else who rides one, and I never see one on the street, even tho I ride 10,000+ miles every year.
The market for bikes in the USA is flat, well it's basically dead but I don't want to say that. Fewer people are riding, and there are tons of bikes, both new and used that nobody will ever buy. The used market especially is flooded with dirt cheap motorcycles but there are very few buyers. There is no reason for Honda to develop a new model vfr. It won't sell here.
For those of us who fell in love with motorcycles in the 80’s and 90’s, we’re living in a bizzaro world.
There’s much more variety in makes and models available today with more technology and reliability than ever before.
But somehow, the bike that we think we want simply doesn’t exist.
The 5th Gen VFR in 98-01 was considered the pinnacle of sport touring and MSRP’d for around $10k.
That’s equivalent to today’s $16k. That will buy you a lot of bike!
Ninja 1000, Ducati SSS, Honda AT AS, Super Tenere, Tiger 1200, etc. More power, ABS, TC, ride modes, better suspension, on and on...
Agreed, but I still want that V4 engine in my sport touring bike. If you could put the VFR V4 in the Ducati SS that would be Nirvana!
I do enjoy being a contrarian, and now I'll combine that with some optimism! so:
- Honda has not been selling the same re-skinned bike for 20 years. The 2010 VFR1200F was all new. I bought one sight-unseen, kept if for seven years and almost 50,000 miles, and loved it. Honda can do it again.
-Honda will spend over $30 million this year developing a V4 hypersport. And they'll spend even more on the project next year. RC213V.
-We (U.S.) are just not on the sharp end of motorcycling anymore. No WSBK round this year, unit sales down 5%, cruisers still big market share, MCN shutting down, CW a glossy quarterly--that can warp our opinion. We should not base our read on Honda's V4 future on what we see at the local dealer.
I think we'll see a special V4 that most of us will like. But it will take some patience.
There is one for sale in the Southeast. Mine. No supply shortage!
My mistake, I should have been more specific - the VFR800 has essentially been re-skinned for the past 20 years!
[post text not recovered]
2 hours ago, 4corsaMy mistake, I should have been more specific - the VFR800 has essentially been re-skinned for the past 20 years!
4corsa, I agree. The 8th gen is a re-packaged 6th. Looks great, but certainly not a new bike.
3 hours ago, 4corsaAgreed, but I still want that V4 engine in my sport touring bike. If you could put the VFR V4 in the Ducati SS that would be Nirvana!
I’d rather spend my money on Honda reliability and refinement.
Honda VFR1000F, 140hp/80ftlb, <500# wet weight, adjustable USD fork with radial brakes, TFT screen, electronics with at least 3 ride modes (rain, tour, sport, track - including ABS/TC OFF). Split pillion with storage and USB port, heated grips, cruise control, up/down quick shifter. $15k. Sounds fair.
NSX-like driveability, refinement and performance.
PS - at least one NACA duct somewhere on the fairing for heritage sake.
I still don't understand the logic for why the market is shrinking, but do know it's a buyers market and I'm happy to take advantage of it. I love riding, have been for close to 35 years on the street, I'm looking forward to many more years riding especially when someday I can hopefully retire and enjoy it even more.
My 2014 VFR800 Deluxe I got for $6500 with only 1k miles on it, that's about half of what the original owner paid for it new in the US.
Our 2018 Wing Tour we got new for $20k, originally stickered for $26k in the US.
My 2018 CBR1000RR SP I just picked up new for $16k, originally stickered for $20k in the US.
Honda's prices are just unrealistic in the US it seems, but if you wait and buy the new leftover models that didn't sell the year or two prior there are smoking deals to be had on some really excellent bikes IMO! :fing02:
Wolverines!
:D
Honda tried the v4 thing big time in the 80’s but early failures with the cams on the vf750f combined with the relentless development of the I-4 platform by Suzuki, Yamaha and Kawasaki caused the v4 to not be the next BIG thing.
I think about moving my ‘07 vfr800 along often and picking up a leftover Suzuki gsxs1000f which is much more powerful and lighter than the vfr. It really is amazing how small inline liter bikes are now, the Suzuki has abs, traction control as well, better suspension etc. While more of a comfortable sport bike as opposed a sport tourer the Suzuki is an attractive package to me.
But....as antiquated as the vfr is I enjoy the bike and after 10 years of ownership have definitely become attached to it, warts and all so it’s safe for now......
It just needs updated and refined in line with the competition as well as for Honda to listen to the perspective buyers.
Old, Antiquated, Repackaged, Reskinned? (sounds like me) I don’t really care I still have a smile on my face every time I go for a ride. What generation of VFR you ride, what colour it is, or what brand of motorcycle you ride doesn’t matter as long as you enjoy riding. Hopefully Honda will surprise us all with another V4 when we least expect it.
12 hours ago, 8200rpmI’d rather spend my money on Honda reliability and refinement.
Honda VFR1000F, 140hp/80ftlb, <500# wet weight, adjustable USD fork with radial brakes, TFT screen, electronics with at least 3 ride modes (rain, tour, sport, track - including ABS/TC OFF). Split pillion with storage and USB port, heated grips, cruise control, up/down quick shifter. $15k. Sounds fair.NSX-like driveability, refinement and performance.
PS - at least one NACA duct somewhere on the fairing for heritage sake.
By the end of the year you'll be able to buy that bike with a V4, made by Ducati. The new Multistrada will meet all those criteria with adaptive cruise control and 160hp, for $20K+ though.
Say it isn't so!!!!!
They stopped making these as well eventually.....
[image: IMG-20200216-WA0060.thumb.jpeg.e5671e96bfb12722bf400378c5b3578a.jpeg]
(it says MV on the package but to all intents and purposes, the engine is a Gilera design......)
:goofy:
vfrcapn By the end of the year you'll be able to buy that bike with a V4, made by Ducati. The new Multistrada will meet all those criteria with adaptive cruise control and 160hp, for $20K+ though.I want a full fairing though - Never understood the lack of wind protection on the Multi.
1 hour ago, 4corsa5 hours ago, vfrcapn By the end of the year you'll be able to buy that bike with a V4, made by Ducati. The new Multistrada will meet all those criteria with adaptive cruise control and 160hp, for $20K+ though.
I want a full fairing though - Never understood the lack of wind protection on the Multi.
Form over function...... :tongue:
Jmmymc750, 2/17/2020 at 4:32 AMAll of this silliness and "Red Dawn" references (the *really* good one from 84, when Ronald Reagan was president, and you could buy an interceptor, or a sabre, or a magna) aside, I am actually pained by this. Truly. My baby sleeps at Seb's right now...but alas there may be no more...
I don't think you and I have the same memory of the 80s... 🤣
VifferJ, 2/18/2020 at 8:09 PMI still don't understand the logic for why the market is shrinking, but do know it's a buyers market and I'm happy to take advantage of it. I love riding, have been for close to 35 years on the street, I'm looking forward to many more years riding especially when someday I can hopefully retire and enjoy it even more.
1) The aging boomer generation are getting off their bikes and onto mobility scooters. Not all, certainly, but it's inevitable. This wouldn't be an issue if it weren't for point number 2:
2) The younger people who would be filtering in to fill the gaps would rather play a motorcycle video game than ride one. I'm not saying that to be disparaging, I think it's an accurate gauge of their interests. I cruised by the One Show in Portland a couple of weeks ago - now granted, this is a specific type of event that lends itself to this sort of thing, but a large segment of the people there didn't really seem to be interested in motorcycles so much as they were cosplaying as bikers.
3) Partially due to #1, partially due to quality of bikes made 20 years ago, there are a crap-load of excellent, used motorcycles available cheap! There was a time when a 100,000 mile motorcycle would be a smoldering wreck. Not so anymore.
8200rpm, 2/18/2020 at 7:08 PMHonda VFR1000F, 140hp/80ftlb, <500# wet weight, adjustable USD fork with radial brakes, TFT screen, electronics with at least 3 ride modes (rain, tour, sport, track - including ABS/TC OFF). Split pillion with storage and USB port, heated grips, cruise control, up/down quick shifter. $15k. Sounds fair.
That rumor that was floating around about a street friendly one liter v4 in 2020 was pretty tantalizing, but I think it was just wishful thinking. Hell, I'd be willing to go I4 if Honda would just do a crossplane engine!
I’m wistful over the departure of the VFR from the USA market, but as long as they keep building them in Kumamoto, there’s still hope. Unfortunately the Japanese domestic bike market has virtually collapsed. It’s perhaps 10 percent of what it was 20 years ago.
6 hours ago, ShinigamiI’m wistful over the departure of the VFR from the USA market, but as long as they keep building them in Kumamoto, there’s still hope. Unfortunately the Japanese domestic bike market has virtually collapsed. It’s perhaps 10 percent of what it was 20 years ago.
What’s the solution to this? The big manufacturers are seeming to shift focus to producing smaller displacement bikes for the emerging south Asian markets (Thailand, India, etc).
I’ve owned four bikes over the course of two decades and always purchased second hand. Maybe it’s time for my first brand new bike to give back to the industry?? Too bad there really isn’t a new model that checks all the boxes.
Tiutis, 2/17/2020 at 1:40 PMAdventure style bikes are selling well or better than sport touring bikes in US. So I’m a little surprised that Honda did not bring the cross runner into US. Their 2 flagship bikes (Goldwing & AT) is where their focus seems to be. In other parts of the world, smaller bikes are probably selling like hot cakes. Leaving our small minority of V4 lovers in “not so important category”.
I would look closely at a Crossrunner if it were here in the US. I don't find them to be a particularly attractive bike but I love the V4 in my Interceptor and would like to have the same motor in a standard or even and adventurish style like the Crossrunner.
I actually bought my 07 Interceptor about two years ago on a whim having always wanted the RWB bike. The thought was that I would rotate out to a different used bike every other year or so to whatever struck my interest at the time. That was the plan but then I fell in love with the VFR, even though it's a 13 year old bike it's so well built that it holds up compared to newer bikes, maybe not in power and weight but in design and refinement. And that motor, the sound, it's just the best. As I look to the horizon I don't know that I want to part with it and consider selling my newer bike, a Versys LT, when I get the itch for something else.
I may someday get a Gen 8 Deluxe in white if I can find one when I'm ready but if not I will look at Ninja 1000's and R1200R/RS's. I'm just glad that I had the chance to purchase one and pleasantly surprised at how much I love riding the bike, looking at the bike, talking about the bike and so on.
18 minutes ago, CalculonI would look closely at a Crossrunner if it were here in the US. I don't find them to be a particularly attractive bike but I love the V4 in my Interceptor and would like to have the same motor in a standard or even and adventurish style like the Crossrunner.
I actually bought my 07 Interceptor about two years ago on a whim having always wanted the RWB bike. The thought was that I would rotate out to a different used bike every other year or so to whatever struck my interest at the time. That was the plan but then I fell in love with the VFR, even though it's a 13 year old bike it's so well built that it holds up compared to newer bikes, maybe not in power and weight but in design and refinement. And that motor, the sound, it's just the best. As I look to the horizon I don't know that I want to part with it and consider selling my newer bike, a Versys LT, when I get the itch for something else.
I may someday get a Gen 8 Deluxe in white if I can find one when I'm ready but if not I will look at Ninja 1000's and R1200R/RS's. I'm just glad that I had the chance to purchase one and pleasantly surprised at how much I love riding the bike, looking at the bike, talking about the bike and so on.
I cannot understand why the Crossrunner is not available in the US. I've owned and ridden 5th and 6th Gen VFR800s and the new 8th Gen is the best of them all but as I progress in years, I find the weight on my wrists troubling on an ST bike but the Crossrunner solves that problem. It's the same engine and running gear but an upright seating position and the extra leverage of wider bars mean it's even easier to chuck around. The suspension needs some tweaking but other than that, it's an utterly brilliant bike, as an increasing number of riders, many ex-BMW boxer twin or Triumph ADV riders are finding out.
I really feel for your loss!
Honda's CEO didn't follow through with a new race bred V4... instead he dropped the strategy that Mr.Honda
put into practice in the 80s and 90s and little Ducati was free to champion a new race bred V4...
Quote Japan magazine Young Machine
Honda RVF1000R – Honda is preparing a new superbike with four-cylinder
V engine with which they aim to regain the prominence lost in the
World Superbike. From Japan, Young Machine magazine has produced a
render that promises to be very close to the sporty one that Honda
will put in dealerships from 2019 or 2020, a motorcycle that, unlike
the exclusive RC213V-S of 180,000 euros, the Honda RVF1000R will have
a more affordable price in line with other models of the Superbike
class such as the new Ducati Panigale V4, the Kawasaki ZX-10RR or the
Aprilia RSV4 RF, that is, in the range of 20 to 25 thousand euros.
The idea pursued by Honda is to repeat the strategy that the Japanese
brand already put into practice in the 90s, when the RC45 -successor
of the successful RC30 with V4 engine- coexisted in the market with
the Fireblade 900 RR, a model that at that time could not compete in
the World Superbike to have a cubicle superior to 750 cc. That’s where
the RC45 maintained its small niche market, offering a registered
racing bike that still, to this day, remains an object of desire for
fans of sports bikes of that time.
At the end of the 90s, with the changes in the regulation of the WSBK,
Honda opted for a configuration of two cylinders, then launching the
VTR 1000 SP1, baptized as RC51. Many years later another RC would
arrive, in this case the RC213V-S, derived directly from the MotoGP, a
motorcycle of which only about 200 units are produced each year
strictly numbered, many of them destined to live locked in a museum or
a garage private because of the incalculable value they will have in
the future.
According to the patents that Honda presented in the United States
last March -where you can see an engine in V4 configuration with the
stock anchored to the chassis as in the Ducati Panigale- it is evident
that the future of the brand of the golden wing in Superbikes it is to
leave aside the inefficient CBR 1000 RR Fireblade SP2 and bet on a
model that will be called the Honda RVF1000R.
The Honda RVF1000R
In its heart, we will find an engine derived from the one already seen
in the RC213V of MotoGP, a V4 at 90º that, unlike the street RC213V-S,
the Honda RVF1000R will have less exotic materials to reduce costs.
The cycle part will be in line with the rest of the superbikes in the
market, while the chassis could be an evolution of the double beam in
aluminum of the RC213V that would take advantage of the engine as one
more element to reduce its weight and dimensions.
And what will happen with the CBR 1000 RR Fireblade? It seems
difficult for Honda to quit a model with such tradition and with such
an illustrious name. The logical thing would be to think that the
Fireblade will continue to be commercialized along with the Honda
RVF1000R from 2019 or 2020, offering a more human model, with a
significantly lower price and benefits below those offered by the V4,
whose estimated power will move between the 210 and the 220 cv.
At the moment, Aprilia is the only brand that bets on the
configuration of four cylinders in V in the WSBK. As of 2019, Ducati
will put on track its Panigale V4, breaking with more than two decades
of two-cylinder tradition in this championship, and everything to the
point that Honda will be the next to rely on a V4 mechanics to fight
for the crown of the Championship of the World of Superbikes in 2020.
LEGEND, 2/18/2020 at 11:56 PMHonda tried the v4 thing big time in the 80’s but early failures with the cams on the vf750f .
Negative the problem was not cams but cam bearing blocks...
Honda's great cam shaft crisis was the result of a factory cost
cutting measure... they choose to mill the cam bearing blocks
separately... there was no matching of components... consequently the
cam bearing blocks were not line bored with the head... if the
tolerances happened to add up... the cam will flop about in the
head.. you'll notice the edge of the cams fail first... a sure sign
the cam shaft tilted and was allowed to strike the follower at an
angle... this also explains why some cams go 100K while other only
20K...
Honda spent a lot of money replacing hand cam shafts and matching cam
bearing blocks to erase the blemish on the V4 legacy...
Honda took a lot of stick over this problem and immediately went back
to the expense of line boring the cam bearing blocks in the head...
To tell the difference between line bored head and the one that gots
the short cut... take a look at the valve cover gasket... if your gasket
sports little half circles molded into the rubber... then you have the
expensive line bored head... no little half circles... then you have the
short cut heads...
[image: ValveCovers3.JPG]
[image: ValveCovers4.JPG]
3 hours ago, CalculonI would look closely at a Crossrunner if it were here in the US. I don't find them to be a particularly attractive bike but I love the V4 in my Interceptor and would like to have the same motor in a standard or even and adventurish style like the Crossrunner.
I actually bought my 07 Interceptor about two years ago on a whim having always wanted the RWB bike. The thought was that I would rotate out to a different used bike every other year or so to whatever struck my interest at the time. That was the plan but then I fell in love with the VFR, even though it's a 13 year old bike it's so well built that it holds up compared to newer bikes, maybe not in power and weight but in design and refinement. And that motor, the sound, it's just the best. As I look to the horizon I don't know that I want to part with it and consider selling my newer bike, a Versys LT, when I get the itch for something else.
I may someday get a Gen 8 Deluxe in white if I can find one when I'm ready but if not I will look at Ninja 1000's and R1200R/RS's. I'm just glad that I had the chance to purchase one and pleasantly surprised at how much I love riding the bike, looking at the bike, talking about the bike and so on.
RWB VFRs are special, Ive always liked the color combo and how well the 6gen aged. I saw a red one yesterday with a modded single under the seat exhaust that was just rolling down the road slowly. I was like enjoying the look and sound of it. However, as I age, I understand the appeal of a more standard with better ergos bike. I too find myself looking at other brand even if they don’t have the V4. Cross runner would have done just as well as other similar bikes, if only Honda brought it here. Updated electronics and a few extra cc might be necessary to match the competition. Otherwise, the bike looks good and is priced well in Europe.
There have been various theories on the early VF cam issues, even guys selling kits to add oil lines and reroute some of the flow.
I own and run an 86 (with the "half moons" yes) and have no issues.
Choose which theory tou beleive or dismiss as "fake news" on the internet.
https://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/v4_cams_what.html
https://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/~rblander/V4_cams.html
One guy crashed his VF400f, kept riding it despite the oil light coming on. Beleiving (you see? one can choose what he beleives is right or wrong).
Hhhhm, I wonder what this could have done to the oil pressure....
[image: IMG_20190727_131148.thumb.jpg.3c84883e9a21ff99b66f49fdc7b64306.jpg]
That is untill the engine seized... His loss was my luck in getting a free engine to play with
The oil pump mounting points were snapped of, hence the pump was rattling around
[image: IMG_20190801_132318.thumb.jpg.0e52174cdda3b8a618fa2a9823474019.jpg]
This must have reduced/blocked oil flow
OOPSIE....
[image: IMG_20190727_123110.thumb.jpg.62421dd9d4c2636116fc9bb0b62d522a.jpg]
[image: IMG_20190727_112857.thumb.jpg.16c0c2bee44bf50ecc589fecc31038fe.jpg]
Scrapyard 2.0
[image: IMG_20190801_132130.thumb.jpg.c9f8602b1210f6e85ebfad7e1ad5ce43.jpg]
BusyLittleShop, 2/23/2020 at 12:19 PMHonda's CEO didn't follow through with a new race bred V4... instead he dropped the strategy that Mr.Honda
put into practice in the 80s and 90s and little Ducati was free to champion a new race bred V4...Quote Japan magazine Young Machine
Honda RVF1000R – Honda is preparing a new superbike with four-cylinder
V engine with which they aim to regain the prominence lost in the
World Superbike. From Japan, Young Machine magazine has produced a
render that promises to be very close to the sporty one that Honda
will put in dealerships from 2019 or 2020, a motorcycle that, unlike
the exclusive RC213V-S of 180,000 euros, the Honda RVF1000R will have
a more affordable price in line with other models of the Superbike
class such as the new Ducati Panigale V4, the Kawasaki ZX-10RR or the
Aprilia RSV4 RF, that is, in the range of 20 to 25 thousand euros.The idea pursued by Honda is to repeat the strategy that the Japanese
brand already put into practice in the 90s, when the RC45 -successor
of the successful RC30 with V4 engine- coexisted in the market with
the Fireblade 900 RR, a model that at that time could not compete in
the World Superbike to have a cubicle superior to 750 cc. That’s where
the RC45 maintained its small niche market, offering a registered
racing bike that still, to this day, remains an object of desire for
fans of sports bikes of that time.At the end of the 90s, with the changes in the regulation of the WSBK,
Honda opted for a configuration of two cylinders, then launching the
VTR 1000 SP1, baptized as RC51. Many years later another RC would
arrive, in this case the RC213V-S, derived directly from the MotoGP, a
motorcycle of which only about 200 units are produced each year
strictly numbered, many of them destined to live locked in a museum or
a garage private because of the incalculable value they will have in
the future.According to the patents that Honda presented in the United States
last March -where you can see an engine in V4 configuration with the
stock anchored to the chassis as in the Ducati Panigale- it is evident
that the future of the brand of the golden wing in Superbikes it is to
leave aside the inefficient CBR 1000 RR Fireblade SP2 and bet on a
model that will be called the Honda RVF1000R.The Honda RVF1000R
In its heart, we will find an engine derived from the one already seen
in the RC213V of MotoGP, a V4 at 90º that, unlike the street RC213V-S,
the Honda RVF1000R will have less exotic materials to reduce costs.The cycle part will be in line with the rest of the superbikes in the
market, while the chassis could be an evolution of the double beam in
aluminum of the RC213V that would take advantage of the engine as one
more element to reduce its weight and dimensions.And what will happen with the CBR 1000 RR Fireblade? It seems
difficult for Honda to quit a model with such tradition and with such
an illustrious name. The logical thing would be to think that theFireblade will continue to be commercialized along with the Honda
RVF1000R from 2019 or 2020, offering a more human model, with a
significantly lower price and benefits below those offered by the V4,
whose estimated power will move between the 210 and the 220 cv.
That fish wrapper magazine has cranked out fake renders of “the next Honda V4” (and at least once, V5!) every couple years since at least 2006. Zero credibility.
Here’s a notoriously bad example from 2008, in which MCN glommed onto a story that originated in Young Bike (without attribution and claiming an “inside source at Honda “)
You can read this wretched pile of journalistic excrement here.
https://issuu.com/motorcyclenews/docs/mcnsampler060808
[image: 71A036B6-8F40-40FB-937A-571F9A4D57D6.jpeg]
3 hours ago, ShinigamiThat fish wrapper magazine has cranked out fake renders of “the next Honda V4” (and at least once, V5!) every couple years since at least 2006. Zero credibility.
aaah. I'd do a murder fro a proper one......
[image: De bronafbeelding bekijken]
:goofy:
As Honda employee at a dealership (sales), sport bikes just don't sell, nobody wants them. We sell small bikes like Grom, Monkey, and a Gloldwing every now and again. Don't get me started on SxS cause this is what we sell most (yuck). A Honda reprehensive told me that America is way down in the pecking order bikes sold, maybe 4th or 5th in the world. The VFR is still sold in European as well as VFR1200x and the VFR800x. I find this sad but if no one buys the product, Honda isn't bring it in only the sit on showrooms collecting dust. The Baby Boomers got old hence there went the American motorcycle market. Oh yeah, I have an 2014 VFR800 an a CB500X. I got my VFR from Honda as a close out from them cause it sat in the crate in Honda's Wearhouse for 4 years! They took $2,000 off dearer cost. Love the BIKE!!
[image: vfr1_(2).JPG]
[image: vfr.JPG]
[image: vfr5.JPG]
1 hour ago, zoomnad. A Honda reprehensive told me
:goofy:
11 hours ago, ShinigamiThat fish wrapper magazine has cranked out fake renders of “the next Honda V4” (and at least once, V5!) every couple years since at least 2006. Zero credibility.
True but Honda's own CEO is credible...
Quote Honda President/CEO Takanobu Ito (2009-2015)
Since its market introduction in 1987, the RC30 [VFR750R] supersports
bike has been loved by a large number of fans. With a goal to create a
new history, passionate Honda engineers have gotten together and have
begun development of a new supersports bike to which new technologies
from MotoGP machines will be applied.
Honda's CEO said last week the company intends to build a new
superbike in the spirit of the RVF750 (RC30) and if that bike achieves
a fraction of what its predecessor managed,
Shinigami, 2/25/2020 at 7:49 AMThat fish wrapper magazine has cranked out fake renders of “the next Honda V4” (and at least once, V5!) every couple years since at least 2006. Zero credibility.
Here’s a notoriously bad example from 2008, in which the now-dead MCN glommed onto a story that originated in Young Bike (without attribution and claiming an “inside source at Honda “)
You can read this wretched pile of journalistic excrement here.
https://issuu.com/motorcyclenews/docs/mcnsampler060808
[image: 71A036B6-8F40-40FB-937A-571F9A4D57D6.jpeg]
The "fishwrapper" is still going...you're confusing it with Motorcycle Consumer News.
Ciao,
JZH
Oh, you're absolutely right, my mistake. By the way, the "fish wrapper" I was referring to is "Young Bike", the Japanese magazine.
Guess you could jump ship and go for the 2020 Ducati Superleggera V4. 234hp 998cc with full carbon fibre swingarm all up weight of 152kg's ! All yours for only a cool $100,000 US.!!
[image: image.jpeg]
I need the 45 mpg and 225-250 mile range of my 2014 vfr800 for cross country rides. A superbike v4 wouldn't work for me one bit.
6 hours ago, SparkieI need the 45 mpg and 225-250 mile range of my 2014 vfr800 for cross country rides.
You may strike a SP1/2 of your list as well then...
[image: IMG_20190305_161712.thumb.jpg.3f835aa93371501908c60e80517ca7ef.jpg]
Sorry @Skids
🙂
BusyLittleShop, 2/23/2020 at 11:34 AMNegative the problem was not cams but cam bearing blocks...
Honda's great cam shaft crisis was the result of a factory cost
cutting measure... they choose to mill the cam bearing blocks
separately... there was no matching of components... consequently the
cam bearing blocks were not line bored with the head... if the
tolerances happened to add up... the cam will flop about in the
head.. you'll notice the edge of the cams fail first... a sure sign
the cam shaft tilted and was allowed to strike the follower at an
angle... this also explains why some cams go 100K while other only
20K...Honda spent a lot of money replacing hand cam shafts and matching cam
bearing blocks to erase the blemish on the V4 legacy...
Honda took a lot of stick over this problem and immediately went back
to the expense of line boring the cam bearing blocks in the head...To tell the difference between line bored head and the one that gots
the short cut... take a look at the valve cover gasket... if your gasket
sports little half circles molded into the rubber... then you have the
expensive line bored head... no little half circles... then you have the
short cut heads...
[image: ValveCovers3.JPG]
[image: ValveCovers4.JPG]
BLS!! You are still around man that’s great. I stopped by the Busy Little Shop some years ago when I was living in Ranch Cordova and picked up a set of your peg lowering blocks. Still have my CGR ‘07, recently replaced tires, fresh fluids, addressed some minor electrical issues and she is running great. Never owned a bike for over 10 years and reality says hold what I got. Blessed to have two other bikes to ride as it is so while I have flights of fancy looking at new bikes I just can’t see getting rid of anything. BTW those peg lowering blocks still look new and have made a huge difference in my comfort. Thanks for your great craftsmanship. [image: 03A49EEA-194E-490C-BF49-EF7E6E74A223.thumb.jpeg.4ca9690860e8dea69f17e55928be73cb.jpeg]
1 hour ago, DutchyYou may strike a SP1/2 of your list as well then...
[image: IMG_20190305_161712.thumb.jpg.3f835aa93371501908c60e80517ca7ef.jpg]
Sorry @Skids
🙂
Don't worry, sub-100 mile range wouldn't stop me getting one.
It's the cost that is!
11 hours ago, LEGENDBLS!! You are still around man that’s great. I stopped by the Busy Little Shop some years ago when I was living in Ranch Cordova and picked up a set of your peg lowering blocks. Still have my CGR ‘07, recently replaced tires, fresh fluids, addressed some minor electrical issues and she is running great. Never owned a bike for over 10 years and reality says hold what I got. Blessed to have two other bikes to ride as it is so while I have flights of fancy looking at new bikes I just can’t see getting rid of anything. BTW those peg lowering blocks still look new and have made a huge difference in my comfort. Thanks for your great craftsmanship.
You're welcome Robert... happy to see you're keeping your knees in the breeze... come back and visit anytime...
Dutchy, 2/24/2020 at 12:00 AMThere have been various theories on the early VF cam issues, even guys selling kits to add oil lines and reroute some of the flow.
I own and run an 86 (with the "half moons" yes) and have no issues.
Honda was typically silent for a long time and this led to all sorts of home
cures including better top oiling kits... shorten oil change intervals... larger
gapped valve clearances... installing new cam tensioners... auxiliary
cooling fans kits... etc etc etc... but none of these address the root cause...
Only after Honda took a lot of stick did they finally go back to the timely
process of line boring the cam bearing blocks on the head so the
tolerances complimented each other...
In the void of official guidance Mechanics went to great lengths to address
the symptom but failed to establish the root cause... the hard coat damage
was still miss matched cam bearing blocks... the evidence they needed to
look at carefully is the fact the edges of the cams fails first... their pet
theory of a lack of oil would make the center fail first...
Honda would never modified their engines by depleting critical oil
form the main galley and take a chance to starve the main bearings
just to reroute oil to the top end... it's a kin to robbing Peter to
pay Paul... there's only so much oil an engine will pump...
19 hours ago, GrumGuess you could jump ship and go for the 2020 Ducati Superleggera V4. 234hp 998cc with full carbon fibre swingarm all up weight of 152kg's ! All yours for only a cool $100,000 US.!!
Cut my wrist and it will bleed Honda red but for $28K Ducati is the current champion of the V4 for the masses...
2020 Ducati V4 Road Racing World
Ducati is a case study of "Build it and they will come." While some
manufacturers are sputtering along, Ducati continues to grow-
especially in the 1000cc+ segment-and these are not cheap motorcycles.
Ducati representatives now claim that V4 model variants earned 25% of
the 1000cc-and-up sportbike market worldwide in 2018 and 2019. Ducati
also claims the V4 models have helped increase market share in the
United States. The claims of increased sales and market share aren't
surprising. Ducati came out swinging with the V4 in 2018, then used
the direct link from its successful MotoGP program to make the sale.
They sold me with 200+ horsepower and a counter-rotating crankshaft.
But, based on the $28,395 pricing, and the state of the industry, the
riders buying V4 Ducatis are not new customers: They're converts from
other brands. Which means Ducati is winning the battle of the
manufacturers, at least in the 1000cc+ sportbike segment. The Ducati
recipe for success is making a stylish, high-performance motorcycle
with MotoGPderived technology, then building a community through
marketing and education. The final key to the puzzle is the Ducati
Ride Experience program, offering customers the opportunity to train
with qualified advanced riding instructors. The program has been one
of Ducati's best tools for converting customers from other brands.
Education and improving skills are also great for customer retention
[image: DucatiPanigaleV4a.JPG]
6 hours ago, BusyLittleShopCut my wrist and it will bleed Honda red but for $28K Ducati is the current champion of the V4 for the masses...
What masses are going to spend $28k on a bike? That's pretty steep.
Not me. But I love my Monster 1200. Weighs about 100 pounds less than my sold VFR, and has much more torque and HP.
Just what I wanted. Less weight, more powah. I can live without 200 HP. And it cost about $11k with tax, used for 2xxx miles. So barely used, and a lot more affordable.
In regards to V4 bikes I see a lot of attention to Ducati but what about Aprilia? Anyone like the Tuono? I took one for a test ride years ago and was stunned by it's power. It's not super expensive either. Or if you want something more sporty and more spendy there is the RSV4.
I had an '03 Tuono and an '07. They were V twins. Fun bikes, fast and good handling.
The Rotax motors are pretty bullet proof.
The Aprilia V4s are fabulous, and 10 years ahead of Ducati. They've been tweaking it to perfection. I think it was Sport Rider who did a top sport bike comparison a year or so ago after the Ducati came out. It included the R1, S1000RR, Kawi, and Honda. Most of the test was at a track and the Aprilia RSV4 beat them all.
2 hours ago, 4corsaThe Aprilia V4s are fabulous, and 10 years ahead of Ducati. They've been tweaking it to perfection. I think it was Sport Rider who did a top sport bike comparison a year or so ago after the Ducati came out. It included the R1, S1000RR, Kawi, and Honda. Most of the test was at a track and the Aprilia RSV4 beat them all.
Aprilias are fabulous but their V4 is a narrow 65º and not ideal 90º
like Ducati... narrow angle V4 matter enough that Aprilia in 2020
MotoGp are sporting the ideal 90º... so hold your coin for the new and
improved 90º coming to a dealer near you.....
Quote Jeremy Burgess
"Every engineer I've spoken to about engine design for a motorcycle, and that
means even Yamaha and Honda, they've all said a 90º V is ideal.
[image: Aprilia65V4.jpg]
[image: Aprilia90V4.jpg]
Maybe it's just me - I never understood why Honda made the 1200 engine a 76 degree design vs the traditional 90. Maybe there was an advantage to it - but whatever it was it doesn't seem that material a difference. Had it been 60 or 65 and they told me it was so it's more compact, ok - but at 76, why not just make it a 90 degree motor? Ah well - that ship sailed long ago.
Although I love Ducati (I'm on my 4th and did more than a dozen track days on my 749), and agree there is a lot of useful trickle down technology from Moto GP, not necessarily everything translates to the street. What's best for lap times at Estoril is not always best for how we ride. I think World Superbike with production based engines and frames have a more direct relationship to the sport bikes we ride. By the 2nd year in SBK, Aprilia's RSV4 was dominant.
The 90° layout might be best for 250 hp Moto GP bikes, but I haven't yet been convinced it's an advantage over the narrower Aprilia layout for sport bikes. And as mentioned, the Aprilia trounced the new Ducati V4 in a head to head test last year (granted, the Aprilia had 10 years of refinement to draw on). Undoubtedly they're both incredible bikes, and let's be honest, 99.9% of us are only capable of riding them at 75% of their capabilities on a good day. The very idea that we could buy a 5 year old RSV4 for under $10k with all that technology is mind-blowing. How lucky we are!
12 hours ago, BusyLittleShopAprilias are fabulous but their V4 is a narrow 65º and not ideal 90º
Both fantastic engines! But....
No ideal engine exist - they are all compromises. Yes, a 90 degree V4 have perfect primary balance and therefore no need for a balance shaft. It suffers from uneven firing order (how depends on crank), takes up lots of real estate longitudinally etc. Depending of the application pros and cons can swap.
Honda claims it was an advantage to have a piston moving at all times averaging torque better to the rear wheel and accepted to live with uneven pulses of combustion torque (one of several claims) - is it important for a 300 hp track bike - does it matter as much for a 100 hp VFR 800?
And my final comment - how much is because manufacturers are playing us with marketing USP’s... 😉 For example the Honda’s super complicated V4 4 stroke NR 500 - did not make sense from an engineering/competition point of view? No, but could have boosted marketing’s case for 4 strokes
St. Stephen, 2/18/2020 at 10:07 PM4corsa, I agree. The 8th gen is a re-packaged 6th. Looks great, but certainly not a new bike.
The 8G is NOT a repackaged 6G.. come on man....you must own a 6G.. ...LOL!!
9 hours ago, flya750The 8G is NOT a repackaged 6G.. come on man....you must own a 6G.. ...LOL!!
They are different bikes but with the same frame and same engine.
Virtually every generation of VFRs were a significant redesign with entirely redesigned frame and engine.
With that said, I would rather pay $6k for an 8th gen with 10k miles than $3k for a 6th gen with the same miles. The 8th gen is overall a better machine.
Many good points. But the twins that are being offered are not awesome either. All the bikes look the same. I am riding an EX500 Ninja lately while my VFR is being rejuvenated. That is a nice little bike. The CBR500 is sweet, too. But that styling is, as my old man would say Pablum. Now if they would sell some of these over here:
[image: image.png.45dca34547392f3496ed2a405019f74d.png]
CB400 super4.jfif
I had 2 of the old CB 400 4 Super Sports - wish I had the Yellow '77 back. GREAT bikes.
21 hours ago, 8200rpmWith that said, I would rather pay $6k for an 8th gen with 10k miles than $3k for a 6th gen with the same miles. The 8th gen is overall a better machine.
I own a 6 gen and have rode my buddies 8 gen extensively on a few tours. I would agree, the 8 is a better bike but... I really like the RWB paint job of my 07 as well as the under tail exhaust. I know it’s superficial reasoning but the heart wants what it wants. Now if Honda would’ve brought the RWB 8 gen they sold in Japan here to the States I would’ve been down to the dealer as they were unloading the crates off the truck.
1 hour ago, CalculonI own a 6 gen and have rode my buddies 8 gen extensively on a few tours. I would agree, the 8 is a better bike but... I really like the RWB paint job of my 07 as well as the under tail exhaust. I know it’s superficial reasoning but the heart wants what it wants. Now if Honda would’ve brought the RWB 8 gen they sold in Japan here to the States I would’ve been down to the dealer as they were unloading the crates off the truck.
Same for me had it been 1,000 cc . . .
900cc for me [image: emoji16.png]
I have to admit that had the RWB been available when I purchased my victory red 8th gen I would have taken it instead, even though I love the red. I am also a great fan of the under tail exhaust. But you can’t have everything. I wanted the ABS and TC and would have loved factory cruise control. I have the Kaoko cruise fitted but to be honest I am not that happy with it. Not as easy to set as they claim and doesn’t hold a consistent speed very well. Maybe I just need more practice.
With regards to Aprilia Tuono V4, I just got a 2015 Tuono Factory ABS. The thick V4 power band is familiar to the VFR800 but wicks up very fast and goes forever faster than the VFR.
Ergonomics are not very far off with the lowering pegs and bar risers mine have. Wind protection is not as good but not horrible at legal speeds.
Aftermarket may eventually provide the bits to make it a more sporty tour able bike. Seats not all that bad either.
Wish Honda had just stuck with the VFR formula and given us a 900 and then a 1000 factory special edition Interceptor. Then maybe the 1200 sport tourer they gave us later would not have been such a shock.
6 hours ago, Philois1984I have to admit that had the RWB been available when I purchased my victory red 8th gen I would have taken it instead, even though I love the red. I am also a great fan of the under tail exhaust. But you can’t have everything. I wanted the ABS and TC and would have loved factory cruise control. I have the Kaoko cruise fitted but to be honest I am not that happy with it. Not as easy to set as they claim and doesn’t hold a consistent speed very well. Maybe I just need more practice.
You being in Australia McCruise makes an excellent cruise control kit for the 8th gen, I have it on my Gen8 and love it :fing02: :fing02:
Will check it out, thanks for the tip.
![[image: emoji16.png]](https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji16.png){kind=link}