Gen. 6th Vfr: The Brake Lines Are Now Runnging Through The Swingarm!

Very very nice. I always figured you could run them through the existing holes, and Seb did a great job doing just that. As for the chainguard, well, I think you already know my opinion on that.

I give it a big (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fing02.gif)

Looks great. PLEASE, for your safety, get the burrs and ribbons the hell out of there. Then, roll on, Haus!

Looks fantastic. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fing02.gif)

YOU FARGING ICE HOLES!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/angry.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pissed.gif)





Kit price please.......... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Veefer Madness, Apr 8 2008, 07:02 PMKit price please.......... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blush.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Depends on who you hire to do the install... some assembly required! I made the hoses from scratch with bulk-length -3 Earl's line and Earl's fittings, that stuff cost $75, but there are more colorful options available for fittings, and they cost more.

You did that? Cool! Obviously, you agree. Burrs MUST go. Prolly pushed back up, upon install. Dyna burr will get it. Steve. I hate to say it, (No disrespect to Seb), But you'll really want to pull the lines. I'm sure you could get a hand de-burring tool, at Harbor freight, for cheap. PLEASE, don't let those dig into your lines. Please. I will pay off to be safe.

Seb. S#!t happens. You should be me, right now. LOMFL.

Just be safe, Steve.

Rivcyko, Apr 8 2008, 07:37 PMYou did that? Cool! Obviously, you agree. Burrs MUST go. Prolly pushed back up, upon install. Dyna burr will get it. Steve. I hate to say it, (No disrespect to Seb), But you'll really want to pull the lines. I'm sure you could get a hand de-burring tool, at Harbor freight, for cheap. PLEASE, don't let those dig into your lines. Please. I will pay off to be safe.

Seb. S#!t happens. You should be me, right now. LOMFL.

Just be safe, Steve.

They will go, it looks worse than it is. I had my pinky up in there and somehow missed that one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I think that was a bad idea, but until something happens otherwise, looks good (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I don't regret it one bit. So long as it's done right, I really don't forsee a problem.

Regarding that metal shaving, before I go on my next ride, I'm gonna get that one out and see if there are any others. Seb recommended I get some sort of plastic tube (I'm not sure what it's called) and fit it around the brake line where it goes through the hole he drilled on the underside of the SSSA. If I have to remove the heat shrink, I will.

KeystoneVFR, Apr 8 2008, 08:14 PMI don't regret it one bit. So long as it's done right, I really don't forsee a problem.

Regarding that metal shaving, before I go on my next ride, I'm gonna get that one out and see if there are any others. Seb recommended I get some sort of plastic tube (I'm not sure what it's called) and fit it around the brake line where it goes through the hole he drilled on the underside of the SSSA. If I have to remove the heat shrink, I will.

Not only did I recommend it, but I am looking for just the right thing too, and it will be on its way to you as soon as I find it and get it shipped to me. You won't need to remove anything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fing02.gif)

Looks amazingly sweet! Wat to go dude.
You guys are killing me, Now guess what I have to do?

Seb, can I bother you to provide a little bit of a write up on the steps to do this. Looks awesome!!!
Have my bike stripped right now (just picked up after wiring harness replacement) and am heading to mechanic buddies to do this year's mod work.
He too carries bulk braided lines (whether this is necessary) and if it's not too tough, I would like to do the re-routing. Did I mention that looks awesome!!!
I'll be replacing my brake pads anyway and he's done brake bleeding many times.
I'm sure the MOD would pin this in the "How to" section, as it looks Awesome!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fing02.gif)

Sure can Tony, still loading pics.

It's not too difficult, the most frustrating part is routing the lines into the arm and then out the holes in the bottom... but we got it!!

Steve, do you mind if I make a separate how-to thread? I'll link this one back to it, don't want to take any attention away from what you've done to your bike overall. It's starting to look damn sexy with that slim fender and the clean rear end... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

SEBSPEED, Apr 8 2008, 08:04 PMSteve, do you mind if I make a separate how-to thread?

Of course not. If somebody wants to do it and can learn from your process, so much the better. This thread is about your mod, not my bike.

I'm all for sharing ideas, knowledge, etc.

A separate "How To" would be best, IMO. Question: I didn't see an ABS ring in the back, is that correct? Is this another, "oh, you've got ABS? sorry, you can't do it" mod.
Also, would there be any issue should I not want to use braided? Is this a personal choice or a line protection idea going through the arm.

Looking forward to your write up.

I just looked at the pic of the "burr" again. It's not a burr on the inside of the hole. It's the chips from drilling the two holes out.

Repeat, not a sharp edge on the inside of the hole waiting to saw through the lines...

Anyone know if pulling the hub out of the arm will allow access to vacuum out the drill chips? I'll have to take a look at the shop manual.



Tony, we went with braided lines because they are smaller in diameter than the stock lines. Easier to route through and you would have to drill a pretty big hole to ru nthe stock lines through. Not to mention the banjos are crimped to the stock lines.

I had to attach the fitting to the 'bike ends' of the lines first, then route the lines, then attach the banjos at the caliper end. This means no removing the lines without undoing the banjos. There is enough line factored in for both suspension travel and to be able to remove the lines a few times before they get too short. In reality, there should be no reason to remove them...

Still loading pics (IMG:style_emoticons/default/comp13.gif)

SEBSPEED, Apr 8 2008, 05:13 PMDepends on who you hire to do the install... some assembly required! I made the hoses from scratch with bulk-length -3 Earl's line and Earl's fittings, that stuff cost $75, but there are more colorful options available for fittings, and they cost more.

Seb, call me stupid but who is this Earl guy you speak of and waht special tools does he require? I'm really interested in this, except I'ld put some kind of gaurd on the chain.

Keystone, Looks amazing though, gaurd or not

I don't think ABS would be an issue? You're just changing the lines, they might connect differently though?

hawglet, Apr 8 2008, 10:21 PMSeb, call me stupid but who is this Earl guy you speak of and waht special tools does he require? I'm really interested in this, except I'ld put some kind of gaurd on the chain.

Keystone, Looks amazing though, gaurd or not

(IMG:http://www.byunspeed.com/images/Earls%20Performance%20Plumbing.jpg)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/fing02.gif)

Nothing too special, a thin cutoff wheel to cut the hose, and some patience for the fittings.

Ok, got my pics loaded. Off to finish a movie with wifey. How to thread tomorrow.

Don't worry, the suspense won't kill ya. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Looks real nice and cleans that area up amazingly! Nice work, guys.

I'm still gonna put on a (hard annodized) black rear sprocket ($70). I'm gonna swap it at Dan's (the Torocharger guy's) house because I'd like to have somebody around in case I run into trouble. I'm not sure when I'm gonna do it, though. After that, I'm having some custom-made RC46 decals ($40) I'm gonna put on. The truly final thing I wanna get are some Remus Ti cans. They look really good and, from what I understand, aren't much louder than stock. These will definitely wait until I start working again, though. I ought to be able to pick up a nice, used set for $400.

You guys will definitely get pics!

Okay, something I've been wanting to do for some time finally got done. Kudos to Seb for actually having done the work. What I've basically got here are before and after pics. I'm sure Seb will chime in in a little bit to show the steps along the way (and explain a few things as well.) To our knowledge this had never been done on any VFR with an LBS.

Before:
[image: Posted Image]

After:
[image: Posted Image]


There was already a hole here (used to mount the stock chainguard.) Since I was no longer using the stock chainguard, this hole was just basically there with the plastic screw in it. Seb made the hole a little wider to accommodate the (braided) brake lines.
[image: Posted Image]


This is the underside of the swingarm. There was already a hole down here, too. He used the existing hole to run one of the brake lines through and drilled another for the second brake line. I asked him to put some black shrink tube on it to get it to blend in with the wheel. Note: Seb turned the banjo bolts around 180 degrees.
[image: Posted Image]

Brake lines? What brake lines! It looks infinitely cleaner back here.
[image: Posted Image]

Notice how it looks cleaner from this side, too.
Before:
[image: Posted Image]

After:
[image: Posted Image]


I'm still undecided about the chainguard, but I'm having Seb paint it black and I'm pretty sure it's gonna go back on. While I was there, Seb cut and shaped my Thurn chainguard to make it look more like this:
[image: Posted Image]


When Seb and I finished lunch and drove back to his place (Greene county, New York), we noticed a fellow rider's bike broke down on the side of the road. We pulled over and noticed the bike had motor oil splashed about in the area just in front of the rear wheel. Bad news. We lifted his bike onto the bed of Seb's truck and took it to this motorcycle shop across the Rip Van Winkle bridge on the Hudson river. Very scenic! I felt bad for this guy because he was really nice and said he had already spent a lot of money on his bike. It was a Suzuki Katana (a '91, I think).
[image: Posted Image]

Steve, you beat me to the punch. Still trying to upload your supersize images and resize them!! :laugh:

I coulda sworn I got all the burrs outta there... problem is, the swingarm is over 1/4" thick in that spot, makes it hard to get inside that 1/2" hole to deburr! Forgot I had an "inanout" tool here. :blush:

More pics are coming, now everyone nows what the heck the brake bleeding thread was about! LOL!

[image: Posted Image]

As also described in this thread: Click Here

Steve (KeystoneVFR) contacted me about wanting to clean up the look of the rear of his bike by routing the brake lines through the swingarm. I suggested that he use aftermarket stainless steel lines and fittings for a few reasons.

- they perform better than stock.
- they're cheaper than stock(both stock lines from RonAyers cost ~$85, total cost of our lines and fittings was ~$75).
- there are options for line colors and fittings to suit different looks/themes.
- more importantly, they are smaller in diameter than the stock lines, meaning they could be routed through smaller holes(less material removed from the swingarm).

The biggest "pro" to going with the stainless lines and personally assembling them, is that it allows for the smallest possible holes in the swingarm. The two fittings that connect to the bike are installed on two line ends, and attached to the bike. The lines are then routed through one of the factory chainguard locations(slightly enlarged), and through to the back of the swingarm. One line will come out of an existing hole that is slightly enlarged to 1/2". The other is routed out of a new 1/2" hole drilled 1" forward of the existing hole. The banjos ends are then connected to the ends of the lines, and bolted to the caliper.

Start by getting the bike in a secure position with the rear wheel off the ground. You can probably get away with using the centerstand for this. I put Steve's bike on a lift, and locked the front wheel in, then put a scissor jack under the headers. Next remove the rear wheel, the footrest, and the chainguard.
[image: Posted Image]

Next you will empty the rear brake reservoir and then bleed the rear caliper to get the fluid out, so you can remove the stock brake lines without making a mess. Have a roll of shop towels and some soapy water handy in case you do. Brake fluid is nasty stuff, and will eat your paint! I use rinsed-out milk and water jugs as catch-alls for this kind of stuff.

Remove the banjo bolts at the caliper:
[image: Posted Image]

Then the other ends on the bike. One is the block under the seat, use a 10mm wrench:
[image: Posted Image]

The other is a banjo at the PC valve up by the battery(the one with the bleeder nipple on top).
[image: Posted Image]

Remove the lines from the bike. Now is a good time to remove the bracket from under the hub locking bolt:
[image: Posted Image]

Also a good time to clean your swingarm!

Next you'll need to drop the swingarm down to allow clearance for your drill. Do so by removing the triangle plates that connect the swingarm, shock, and dogbone linkage:
[image: Posted Image]
[image: Posted Image]

Now the fun really begins. Get out you favorite power tool and open the forward inside chainguard mount hole to 5/8". I got that number by measuring the diameter of the SS hose, multiplying by 2, and adding a little wiggle room. For this I used two Unibit step drills. First to 1/2", then 5/8". Come to think of it, I may have gone one size over 5/8". You will have to drill and see. Check by inserting two pieces of hose side by side and ensure that they will be allowed movement with binding or hanging up on the edges of the hole.
[image: Posted Image]

Then prop the swingarm up nice and high wit ha box or a jack, and find the existing hole at rear underside of the arm, by the hub. Open that hole to 1/2". Then measure ~1" forward of that hole, and in the middle of the flat area of the arm, drill another 1/2" hole. I started by drilling with a #30(1/8") aircraft length drill(6"), then popped the unibit back in and opened to 1/2".
[image: Posted Image]
[image: Posted Image]

**Use a deburring tool or whatever you've got and clean the edges of the holes, inside and out. Run your pinky around the edges. If it gets cut, guess what? so will your new lines... **I am also investigating an extra step to remove the drill chips from inside the arm, may have to pull the hub for this mod, to get a vacuum hose in there.

I had bought a 20' length of -3 hose(it's also available by the foot), so at this point I pulled the roll out and measured a length of it to the shorter of the two factory lines. Then I held it to the bike to mock the routing and adjusted the length by eye a bit, leaving a few inches excess, and cut it to length.

I attached the flared fitting adapter, which adapts the flared fitting on the bike(that used to go into the block) to the -3 hose on the other side. Attached that to the bike. Then(this is important!!) I made a small cut in the clear coating on the hose, at the caliper end, and tied about a foot of 150lb test fishing line to the end of the hose.

Here's were you might start banging your head on the wall with this project. You have to push the line into the big hole at the front of the arm:
[image: Posted Image]

...And fish it out through one of the small holes you drilled on the other end:
[image: Posted Image]

This can take a few minutes(!!), so be patient. Steve helped me do this, my initial idea had been to use my handy flexible grabber tool, but it wasn't doing the trick, so we switched to a piece of wire and pliers...
[image: Posted Image]

Repeat for the other line. Be liberal when measuring the hose length. Both of these hoses ended up shorter than the stock lines, so buy at least that amount of hose to start with.

Next, trim your lines to length, with the swingarm in its lowest position(all the way down)! If you don't do this, your lines won't be long enough, and something very bad will happen!

Attach the banjo fittings to the hose ends, and install them (with new crush washers) on the caliper. Steve was going for the stealth look, so we added some heat shrink tubing before attaching the banjos.

Bleed the brakes and be done! :fing02:
[image: Posted Image]

*One last note*

I do not consider Steve's project 100% complete yet, I am sourcing 3 black plastic plugs(similar to a steering stem plug) to install in the drilled holes. These will act as guides and guard the hoses from the edges of the holes.

So in the future, I would add those plugs to this parts list -

Parts list:

- 6000031 Earl's -3 hose, coated (approx. 9', $26.91)
- 640603 Earl's -3 Straight female 10mm x 1.0mm IF(inverted flare) adapter, steel (QTY 1, $9.36)
- 601103 Earl's 20 degree -3 side non-adjustable banjo; steel (QTY 2, $8.24ea)
- 601203 Earl's 20 degree -3 side adjustable banjo, steel ( QTY 1, $11.72ea)

If I had to do this again, I would use (1) 601103 non-adjustable banjo at the PCV valve, and (2) -3 straight banjos at the caliper. In their new routing positions, the side bend banjos are not required at the caliper. This would bring the cost down by a few bucks.

Total as listed above, ~$75. I do not have the exact lengths of the hoses we cut, as they were in the swingarm when we trimmed them, and were NOT taking them back out to measure!! 9' is a good safe estimate. I had bought 20', so I could use the rest on my VF750 project(brake and clutch lines), I can measure what I have left and the pieces we cut off to get a better idea, assuming that the bulk hose was cut to exactly 20'.

The fittings are available in various anodized colors like blue, black, and red(or a mix of colors), at a higher cost. (Almost double, but they sure look cool!)

SEBSPEED, Apr 9 2008, 12:33 PMOk, got my pics loaded. Off to finish a movie with wifey.

Is it on redtube yet? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Nice mod!

Here's the before and (almost) after pics of the chainguard:
[image: Posted Image]

[image: Posted Image]

[image: View Post]didit, on Apr 8 2008, 08:14 PM, said:

A separate "How To" would be best, IMO. Question: I didn't see an ABS ring in the back, is that correct? Is this another, "oh, you've got ABS? sorry, you can't do it" mod.
Also, would there be any issue should I not want to use braided? Is this a personal choice or a line protection idea going through the arm.

Looking forward to your write up.

You are correct in that my bike is non-ABS. Stock brake lines cannot be used because there's no easy way to remove and recrimp the banjo bolts with them. Actually, it's my understanding that it can be done with stock brake lines but it would require using expensive equipment most people don't have (again, because of the bano bolt thing.)

The cool thing about braided brake lines is A) they're superior to the stockers, B) aren't all that expensive, C) are available in various colors to suit one's taste, and D) they do a better job of protectecting the lines going in and out of the swing arm.

As for whether or not this mod can be done on an ABS model, I don't know. Seb can answer that.

[image: View Post]hawglet, on Apr 8 2008, 09:21 PM, said:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Apr 8 2008, 05:13 PM, said:

Depends on who you hire to do the install... some assembly required! I made the hoses from scratch with bulk-length -3 Earl's line and Earl's fittings, that stuff cost $75, but there are more colorful options available for fittings, and they cost more.

Seb, call me stupid but who is this Earl guy you speak of and waht special tools does he require? I'm really interested in this, except I'ld put some kind of gaurd on the chain.

Keystone, Looks amazing though, gaurd or not


Earl's is a brand.

http://www.holley.co...?division=Earls

You forgot to mention we went for a ride! :warranty:

[image: Posted Image]

We had a lot of fun riding Sunday. I couldn't believe just how beautiful upstate New York is. Seb kept smoking me in the twisties. He's a more experienced rider than I am, but in all fairness to me, I was seeing gravel on a lot of curves. Everytime I saw some, all I could think of was what you see below.

Anybody like the Eagles? I'm listening to some stuff from their debut album right now. Man, I breathe this stuff!


These were taken during my pre-digital camera days (that's why the quality isn't all that great.)

[image: Posted Image]

[image: Posted Image]

Love the brake line mod :fing02: :beer: but not so much the chain guard chop. The end section that was cut off catches a greatest amount of goo according to the ones I've had the pleasure of cleaning over the years (only surpassed by the front cover). It does look better (cleaner lines) tho'.

[image: View Post]FotoMoto, on Apr 9 2008, 11:09 AM, said:

Love the brake line mod :fing02: :beer: but not so much the chain guard chop. The end section that was cut off catches a greatest amount of goo according to the ones I've had the pleasure of cleaning over the years (only surpassed by the front cover). It does look better (cleaner lines) tho'.


Steve's solution to the shorter chainguard:
[image: Posted Image]

:goofy:

Here's a pic of the bulk line and the heat shrink tubing:
[image: Posted Image]

The heat shrink tubing is 3/8" black polyolefin.

dude, on Apr 9 2008, 12:23 PM, said: Nice work guys. Really cleans the back end. Question though. Whats involved in attaching the banjo bolts to the steel lines? Is it pretty straight forward or are there a few tricks youve learned along the way. This looks like a mod I would attempt

Moved to feature, however two topics on the same topic? I merged to feature both togther - lets make it simple guys - one topic!! Moved sebs up to the first page by merging his post with his first one.

SEBSPEED, Apr 9 2008, 02:10 PMVFRCAPN - Mike, take a look at your stock chainguard. How many fastener locations does it have? The VTEC has four, I would think they are the same part number? The entrance hole for the lines in this mod is the inside forward chainguard mount hole(just in behind the shock, in relation to the bike).

yes, you're right, i need coffee. <smack head> (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

vfrcapn, Apr 9 2008, 07:21 PM

SEBSPEED, Apr 9 2008, 02:10 PMVFRCAPN - Mike, take a look at your stock chainguard. How many fastener locations does it have? The VTEC has four, I would think they are the same part number? The entrance hole for the lines in this mod is the inside forward chainguard mount hole(just in behind the shock, in relation to the bike).

yes, you're right, i need coffee. <smack head> (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

No problem, at least now you know for sure you can pull this off! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fing02.gif)

Have fun "fishing"! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Seb, and anyone else thinking to do this... just get an industrial strength vacuum cleaner and jam the hose opening up against the hole, should do the trick. You'll hear the flakes going up the hose.

Here's a suggestion... when you open out the diameter on the existing holes and fully drill the new one.. why no do it so the holes go at an angle... I know it's thick stuff but, if the holes angled forward (bottom to top) the lines wouldn't have to negotiate such a sharp bend and wouldn't run the risk of kinking (braided lines btter than OEM for this reason too), and also wouldn't rub on a 90� angled edge!!!

Just my 0.02 cents' worth... the thickness may be an impediment to this idea, I'm sure Seb can confirm whether it's possible.

[image: View Post]Auspa�ol, on Apr 9 2008, 05:00 PM, said:

Here's a suggestion... when you open out the diameter on the existing holes and fully drill the new one.. why no do it so the holes go at an angle... I know it's thick stuff but, if the holes angled forward (bottom to top) the lines wouldn't have to negotiate such a sharp bend and wouldn't run the risk of kinking (braided lines btter than OEM for this reason too), and also wouldn't rub on a 90� angled edge!!!

Just my 0.02 cents' worth... the thickness may be an impediment to this idea, I'm sure Seb can confirm whether it's possible.


Glad you mentioned that, because I forgot to. That's another case of "next time I'll know better". You'd almost have to remove the swingarm and use a milling machine to make a perfect hole at the right angle, but it could be done not-quite-so-nicely with a carbide burr on a straight die grinder, or crudely by drilling the hole, then switching to a smaller bit and angling it into the hole while drilling.

There is plenty of slack in the hose inside the arm, and enough room inside to where the bend isn't as sharp as you may think.



VFRCAPN - Mike, take a look at your stock chainguard. How many fastener locations does it have? The VTEC has four, I would think they are the same part number? The entrance hole for the lines in this mod is the inside forward chainguard mount hole(just in behind the shock, in relation to the bike).

I found out that a regular(decent condition) pair of side cutters or lineman's pliers will do the trick as well. Much better than the Dremel diamond wheel, Icoulda easily saved the $15 I dished out for that thing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Very nice.
On a 5th gen there is a big hole leading into the SSA when you remove the wheel hub.
Many thanks for the video. I have altered a stainless hose & did not know you cut it with a sharpened chisel. I Dremelled through the braiding which spread it out & it was EXTREMELY difficult getting the nut over the braids after that. Now I know for next time.

tok tokkie, Apr 10 2008, 06:37 AMVery nice.
On a 5th gen there is a big hole leading into the SSA when you remove the wheel hub.
Many thanks for the video. I have altered a stainless hose & did not know you cut it with a sharpened chisel. I Dremelled through the braiding which spread it out & it was EXTREMELY difficult getting the nut over the braids after that. Now I know for next time.

Thanks for the tip on the hole in the swingarm too Ralph, I'm pretty sure the 5th and 6th gen arms are the same?

I carefully cut the heat shrink off with a razor blade (remember, it wasn't necessary in the first place; I asked Seb to put it on to get the brake lines to blend in with the rear wheel.)

[image: Posted Image]


This is one of the fasteners that came with the Thurn chain guard. It bolts onto the top of the chain guard and secures the brake lines.

[image: Posted Image]


I removed one of the rubber pieces and, with a razor blade, shortened it and trimmed the edges.

[image: Posted Image]


This is a temporary fix. The rubber strip is neither glued to the brake line nor the SSSA. I did the same for the other hole, but the picture I took showing both didn't come out too well. Since they're in there kind of snug and the brake line isn't a moving part, it'll be adequate until we find a permanent solution.

[image: Posted Image]


What do you guys think? I went to the sign shop that did my rim stripes and we picked out a color that was as close to the black/gray metallic used on the Honda logo on the gas tank. He then laser cut the "RC46" out of the sheet he ordered. Total cost was $37 (including installation; yes, there's one on the other side.) I'm pleased with the quality of the work I've gotten from them (Signs by Tomorrow.) If you live near Philadelphia, give 'em a call and ask for Chris (tel. 610-407-7020). As always, I welcome all comments.

[image: Posted Image]

[image: View Post]KeystoneVFR, on Apr 11 2008, 03:44 PM, said:

[image: Posted Image]


This is a temporary fix. The rubber strip is neither glued to the brake line nor the SSSA. I did the same for the other hole, but the picture I took showing both didn't come out too well. Since they're in there kind of snug and the brake line isn't a moving part, it'll be adequate until we find a permanent solution.

Rubber firewall grommets!

[image: Posted Image]

http://www.ronfranci.../wiringaids.htm

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Apr 8 2008, 07:11 PM, said:

Parts list:

- 6000031 Earl's -3 hose, coated (approx. 9', $26.91)
- 640603 Earl's -3 Straight female 10mm x 1.0mm IF(inverted flare) adapter, steel (QTY 1, $9.36)
- 601103 Earl's 20 degree -3 side non-adjustable banjo; steel (QTY 2, $8.24ea)
- 601203 Earl's 20 degree -3 side adjustable banjo, steel ( QTY 1, $11.72ea)

If I had to do this again, I would use (1) 601103 non-adjustable banjo at the PCV valve, and (2) -3 straight banjos at the caliper. In their new routing positions, the side bend banjos are not required at the caliper. This would bring the cost down by a few bucks.

Ok, I've got a few questions for you: 640603 is female? Are you sure? The block is female, so this fitting would have to be male, no?

2- My bike is de-linked, so I wouldn't need the "return line". Could you tell me which fittings I would need?

3- Since I only need one line, do I still need to drill holes?

Thanks,

SG

[image: View Post]St�phane, on Apr 13 2008, 11:09 AM, said:

Ok, I've got a few questions for you: 640603 is female? Are you sure? The block is female, so this fitting would have to be male, no?

No, I did not alter the factory hard line. It is being used as stock, 640603 replaces the block.

2- My bike is de-linked, so I wouldn't need the "return line". Could you tell me which fittings I would need?

Not sure, I haven't given much thought to de-linking. If you can described your setup to me, maybe add a little diagram, I can help.

3- Since I only need one line, do I still need to drill holes?

No, but you will want to open two existing holes up a bit to make room. I would open to at least double the diameter of the brake line, in our case 1/2"(13mm). Please see my notes above on what I would the next time around. great benefit can be found in angling the exit hole(s) on the underside of the swingarm.

Thanks,

SG

Any other questions, let me know!

[image: View Post]St�phane, on Apr 13 2008, 05:09 PM, said:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Apr 8 2008, 07:11 PM, said:

Parts list:

- 6000031 Earl's -3 hose, coated (approx. 9', $26.91)
- 640603 Earl's -3 Straight female 10mm x 1.0mm IF(inverted flare) adapter, steel (QTY 1, $9.36)
- 601103 Earl's 20 degree -3 side non-adjustable banjo; steel (QTY 2, $8.24ea)
- 601203 Earl's 20 degree -3 side adjustable banjo, steel ( QTY 1, $11.72ea)

If I had to do this again, I would use (1) 601103 non-adjustable banjo at the PCV valve, and (2) -3 straight banjos at the caliper. In their new routing positions, the side bend banjos are not required at the caliper. This would bring the cost down by a few bucks.

Ok, I've got a few questions for you: 640603 is female? Are you sure? The block is female, so this fitting would have to be male, no?

2- My bike is de-linked, so I wouldn't need the "return line". Could you tell me which fittings I would need?

3- Since I only need one line, do I still need to drill holes?

Thanks,

SG


If you onl ave one line you would only need to widen the existing holes from what I understood. But, if you've only one line... does that mean your rear calliper is only running two pistons? I thought the second line wasn't a "return" line, but a "sending" line from the PCV valve... running the third piston when you apply the front brakes...

[image: View Post]Auspa�ol, on Apr 13 2008, 11:17 AM, said:

[image: View Post]St�phane, on Apr 13 2008, 05:09 PM, said:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Apr 8 2008, 07:11 PM, said:

Parts list:

- 6000031 Earl's -3 hose, coated (approx. 9', $26.91)
- 640603 Earl's -3 Straight female 10mm x 1.0mm IF(inverted flare) adapter, steel (QTY 1, $9.36)
- 601103 Earl's 20 degree -3 side non-adjustable banjo; steel (QTY 2, $8.24ea)
- 601203 Earl's 20 degree -3 side adjustable banjo, steel ( QTY 1, $11.72ea)

If I had to do this again, I would use (1) 601103 non-adjustable banjo at the PCV valve, and (2) -3 straight banjos at the caliper. In their new routing positions, the side bend banjos are not required at the caliper. This would bring the cost down by a few bucks.

Ok, I've got a few questions for you: 640603 is female? Are you sure? The block is female, so this fitting would have to be male, no?

2- My bike is de-linked, so I wouldn't need the "return line". Could you tell me which fittings I would need?

3- Since I only need one line, do I still need to drill holes?

Thanks,

SG


If you onl ave one line you would only need to widen the existing holes from what I understood. But, if you've only one line... does that mean your rear calliper is only running two pistons? I thought the second line wasn't a "return" line, but a "sending" line from the PCV valve... running the third piston when you apply the front brakes...

Here are a few pictures: 1st, no need for the female part, just 2 banjos: (just need to know the angle I should get). Auspa�ol, you can see on the picture what I did to link the middle piston to the other line.
[image: Posted Image]
[image: Posted Image]

So you're going straight from the rear m/c to the caliper? Get (1) 601103, and (1) straight banjo like you've shown in you second pic. When you run the new line out of the bottom of the swingarm, you will have a straight shot at the caliper, no need for an angled piece. Straight is cheaper too! :beer:

[image: Posted Image]


Sacrebleu!! very trick indeed... hope it never snags on anything but quite a clever idea there sir...

[image: View Post]wooly72, on Apr 24 2008, 03:17 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Auspa�ol, on Apr 13 2008, 02:59 AM, said:

Tha braided line is definitely the go... whoever it was looking at using the standar rubbe lines... don't do it... you want to avoid kinking at all costs.

I want to do this mod, but don't want to spend the money on new brake lines just yet. Would it be safe to perform this mod using stock brake lines or not?

I know the holes would have to be made bigger than for the braided lines, but is kinking really going to be a problem with the stock lines put through the swingarm?

If so, what are some prices out there you guys have paid for new lines if I were to break down and actually buy some.


The total cost of the parts was less than $75. The stock brake lines not only necessitate larger holes (something you want to avoid) but how are you going to re-attach the banjo bolts? Seb told me it can be done, but only with expensive tools most people don't have (and trust me, Seb's got a lot.)

You're far better off getting braided brake lines. For this particular mod, not only would it cost less, but braided brake lines provide better braking, too. You can also get them in an assortment of colors to suit your tastes. Whatever you decide, best of luck to you.

Cool little mod.

Don't know if you guys have seen the Russel Pro System 2 brake lines, but they would probably make this mod a whole lot easier.

http://www.russellpe...le/b-pro2.shtml

Just a thought for future reference.

Great mod!

Here's my take on some of the things that have been tossed out concerning this mod.

1. The burrs - The brake lines are braided stainless steel. The aluminum burr is not going to be an issue. The brake line will abrade the swing arm not the other way around. The burr should still be removed though. Just because.

2. The "grommets" you probably want to use are actually nylon snap bushings.
[image: Posted Image]
They are available here.STEIN AIR

3. The chips in the swing arm are a "So What". They can stay there until the bike rots away and it makes no difference.

4. The best way to cut the braided lines is to wrap tape around the line, then cut it by mounting in a vise and using a cut off wheel or new hack saw blade. There will be no fraying and life will be good.

A tip that might be useful if you're doing this mod is that the swingarm gets filled up with all dorts of dirt and stuff from the road, which in turn absorbs moisture, which in turn seizes up hub assemblys, which finally in turn leads to lots of swearing when you next adjust your chain. So, to avoid this, get a can of expanding foam from a DIY shop and squirt it into one of the holes until it comes out of all the others!

Thanks for the input guys, I gotta check out that nylon bushing.

RRW, you're right about the burrs and chips, but in this case, it's a matter of doing the job 100%. You can do whatever you like on your own bike, but I would want the chips out to do away with the risk of excessive wear/binding the swingarm.

As for cutting the line, you can do it that way, but there is actually a how-to video posted above which was made by the folks who produce the line, showing the chisel as the best method. I do have a set of instructions at home from a previous job that show your method, so I'm sure either way works well. What I found is that using the chisel or a pair of cutters leaves a nice clean edge on the teflon hose inside.


Lorenzo, I've used the foam trick on my VF750 swingarm, and many newer models come from the factory with a form of this used(the 600RR for example), as it as a tiny bit of rigidity, and keeps vibration frequencies down in these complex parts.

Seb,

Not to be a critic or anything man. This mod looks really really awesome, nice work. BUT..

It makes me wonder about drilling that second hole undernear the arm to pass the 2nd brakeline.

Just makes me wonder if by drilling that hole, that you aren't compromising the structural integrity of the
strength of the arm. Sure, it's a pretty solid strong thing, but.. you know, the straw that broke the
camel's back does exist, and the littlest of things could create a big thing.

Any thoughts on that?

I think I'd like to try this mod, BUT.. that's the biggest thing I'd worry about (above).

You would have a better point if the hole was in a stressed area of the arm, where the hole is now, very little stress if any gets put on that area. Given the size of the hole, the location, the thickness of the swingarm, etc, I am not worried in the least that the arm was compromised to any degree.

I am not saying that there was no change, but it's far from making the arm weak enough to break or cause problems. The 5th gen/VTEC arm is thicker/heavier/stronger than the previous gens to begin with.

Not compromising the structural integrity of the SSSA was my utmost concern. I spoke with our resident genius (Dan; the Torocharger guy) to see what his thoughts were. He told me that so long as the hole is small, on the bottom, and isn't on a bend, I needn't worry. Dan is an engineer and I trust his opinion.


Edit: I was just going through all the pictures I took while I was up at Seb's and noticed there was one I never downloaded. Here's a quick pic I took of Seb while he was on his break.

[image: Posted Image]

Not to toot my own horn, but I've been working in the aerospace manufacturing industry for the better part of a decade as well. All good, valid questions though, I'm glad to know that people think about these things before they just go at their bike with a drill!!

[image: Posted Image]
Banjo connector.jpg

Is there a how-to for the Front Brake Line SS replacement? (Non ABS- 6th Gen)
Thank you in advance.

Is there a how-to for the Front Brake Line SS replacement? (Non ABS- 6th Gen)
Thank you in advance.

Not yet, but I'm working on it. :wub:

First it was this...
[image: Posted Image]

Then it was this...
[image: Posted Image]

And now this:
[image: Posted Image]

We did the swap at Dan's (the Torocharger guy's) house this weekend because I thought it was gonna be a lot of work. It turned out to be as simple as loosening the six nuts holding the sprocket, taking the sprocket off, putting the chain around the new sprocket, putting it in place, and then tightening the nuts.

I always thought the stock sprocket looked big. While my new one is a 43t (the same as stock), I think it being black makes it blend in with the wheel giving the illusion of a smaller hub assembly:

[image: Posted Image]


My new aluminum sprocket (in the packaging) weighed a whopping 10.1 oz:
[image: Posted Image]

My stock steel sprocket weighed 1 lb., 6.8 oz. It's kind of hard to tell from this picture, but we were surprised at how good my stocker looked given it had almost 12k miles.
[image: Posted Image]


I got to see Dan's Torocharged VFR and was impressed with what I saw. I don't think he's ever mentioned it, but he's also got a BMW M3 with a modded engine, suspension, and brakes. If you're ever in Philadelphia, think twice about instigating a race against an M3 because if its Dan's, be forewarned it's not stock. He let me drive it on the way back from lunch :fing02: (thanks Dan!)

Dan's little neighbor called my bike the "Spider Man" motorcycle because it's red. Little did he know, a true Spider Man motorcycle already exists!

[image: Posted Image]

[image: Posted Image]

[image: Posted Image]


Thanks again for all the help, Dan!

I just checked out this thread for the 1st time. Nice work, guys! :fing02: What a great mod that also improves the looks AND performance of the bike.

And that black sprocket looks cool, too!

I've gotta say, Steve's bike is really clean and quite a looker -- he's done a great job very tastefully modding it. He was also nice enough to let me take it for a spin, and being the first 6th-gen I've ever ridden, I can now add my own input to the 5th vs 6th-gen debate.

Granted, I didn't spend too much time on it, but during my short jaunt, I found the non-PC enhanced VTEC to be a non-issue. The sound changed, and the bike moves faster, but it wasn't a jarring experience and certainly not a deal breaker. Also, as I've read before, the suspension on the 6th-gen bikes is superior to the 5th, and it certainly didn't feel as heavy as it would seem to be on paper. Overall, I liked it a lot. It's still a VFR, after all.

Any other questions, let me know!

Uh, yes I've got one - How much do you charge for this and what's your schedule :rolleyes:

Any other questions, let me know!

Uh, yes I've got one - How much do you charge for this and what's your schedule :rolleyes:

My schedule is crazy. I don't remember off the top of my head what I charged Steve, I used my "profit" to enlarge the order of brake line and fittings to cover my oil mod on my 750 project. I still want to expand on Steve's mod and convert my whole VTEC to stainless lines, maybe we can work something out there.

I can probably find some time in August... got a week of vacation(solo bike trip to TN) coming up at the end of the month, bike projects, family, NEST FEST in the Catskills(VFR group ride) third week of July, in that order. Then going to Indy for MotoGP in Sept, the annual Fall Ride in the Catskills that I host in mid-to late October, and a track day at the end of October.

Pick a time slot and cross your fingers!! PM me if you're really interested.

-Sebastian

I know its kool to do all this modding stuff rather than just ride the bike, but Damn look at that chain LOL

i know this is super old... but will the same ends work for the 5th gen at the PCV? I know the calipers are the same and the holes are the same but curious since the PCV is on the opposite side of the bike on the 6th gen

I own that bike but can't answer your question because Seb did the work  Maybe he'll chime in shortly and help you out.  He lives in upstate New York so getting him to do job probably won't happen (I lived in Philadelphia eight years and rode up there.)

I would not have attempted this mod on my own.  No way.

I own that bike but can't answer your question because Seb did the work  Maybe he'll chime in shortly and help you out.  He lives in upstate New York so getting him to do job probably won't happen (I lived in Philadelphia eight years and rode up there.)

I would not have attempted this mod on my own.  No way.

i am pretty mechanically inclined and knowledgable, just curious on the brake line differences between 5th and 6th gen

I own that bike but can't answer your question because Seb did the work  Maybe he'll chime in shortly and help you out.  He lives in upstate New York so getting him to do job probably won't happen (I lived in Philadelphia eight years and rode up there.)

I would not have attempted this mod on my own.  No way.

i am pretty mechanically inclined and knowledgable, just curious on the brake line differences between 5th and 6th gen

One of the members here, Stoshmonster, posted a good write up on 5th vs. 6th Gen braking systems, but it was posted at VFRW (http://vfrworld.com/...neuver-lbs.html) see post #5

Basically the rear braking system is the same for both gens. The fronts are slightly different. So if it just moving the lines into the swingarm, then its fine.

I had to totally delink mine to fit the single nut rear wheel, but I put the remaining brake line through the swingarm, as per the pics below.

The line runs forward from the rear master cylinder, inside of the foot rest hanger, then under the front of the swingarm & enters in to the arm via the square hole that is already there on the left inner side. It exits through the drain hole at the rear, which I rifled/drilled at an angle to make it big enough for the banjo head to fit through & gave the right angle for the hose to exit towards the new caliper !

[image: 1rearbrakelinerouting1.jpg]
 
[image: 1rearbrakelinerouting2.jpg]
 
[image: 1rearbrakeline2.jpg]
 
[image: 1rearbrakeline1.jpg]
 
[image: 1rearbrake1.jpg]

Have fun.

^^^^

Mmmm, purdy... :cool:

Basically the rear braking system is the same for both gens. The fronts are slightly different. So if it just moving the lines into the swingarm, then its fine.
 
I had to totally delink mine to fit the single nut rear wheel, but I put the remaining brake line through the swingarm, as per the pics below.
 
The line runs forward from the rear master cylinder, inside of the foot rest hanger, then under the front of the swingarm & enters in to the arm via the square hole that is already there on the left inner side. It exits through the drain hole at the rear, which I rifled/drilled at an angle to make it big enough for the banjo head to fit through & gave the right angle for the hose to exit towards the new caliper !
 
[image: 1rearbrakelinerouting1.jpg]
 [image: 1rearbrakelinerouting2.jpg]
 [image: 1rearbrakeline2.jpg]
 [image: 1rearbrakeline1.jpg]
 [image: 1rearbrake1.jpg]
 
 
Have fun.

Got all of that, that will be the easy part. My question lies where the block is for the pcV line that runs to the rear. That's the one I'm wondering about

Question on slipping the Earl's fitting on. Is the nut that slips over the ss line supposed to be a freakin tight fit or slip on somewhat loosely? I guess once on you flare the braids, slip the olive over the teflon and screw the nut and fitting together with the braids over the olive? That nut is just not cooperating, I oiled the outside of the line but it wasn't much help.

edit: Ok, lol. Cut the plastic coating off back an inch or so. Got it.. <head slap>

Yeah I wish there was a little more room there. I have been cutting back the sleeving and also fishing on a bit of heat shrink tubing before the nut. After it's all assembled I pull the heat shrink up to cover the exposed braid.

[image: a592c3be.jpg]

Seb, do you have any preferences on SS vs. the anodized AL fittings?

Can't speak for Seb, but I certainly do have a preference.

Stainless all the way Vs aluminum.

What he said.  Alloy corrodes and is weaker.  Never recommended for a street bike.

Ciao,

Thanks, good to know there's only one correct answer.

[image: IMG_9779_zps982fcc21.jpg]

Yeah I wish there was a little more room there. I have been cutting back the sleeving and also fishing on a bit of heat shrink tubing before the nut. After it's all assembled I pull the heat shrink up to cover the exposed braid.

[image: a592c3be.jpg]

Is  the  outer  sleeve  just  for  looks  or  is  it  for   reinforcement ?

Seb, do you have any preferences on SS vs. the anodized AL fittings?

No.

My feelings on that is, like with anything else, if you take of them, they will last a long time. Change your fluid annually to keep moisture out, and keep the outsides clean and you won't have to worry about corrosion until well after the lines have paid for themselves. 

(Especially for my garage kept bikes)

Is  the  outer  sleeve  just  for  looks  or  is  it  for   reinforcement ?

It is considered a protective coating, not a reinforcement, although it does stiffent the hose up a bit. And it does look good too.

Thanks, good to know there's only one correct answer.

[image: IMG_9779_zps982fcc21.jpg]

Rear brakes are not as important as front brakes, so you're probably fine.  I've got some Earl's alloy lines on a bike I purchased that way, and they're probably fine.  But for a new purchase I would do what I know is better and less risky, and that is use stainless steel fittings.  Besides, annodised alloy is so 1990s.  Oh, wait... :laugh:

Ciao,

Basically the rear braking system is the same for both gens. The fronts are slightly different. So if it just moving the lines into the swingarm, then its fine.

I had to totally delink mine to fit the single nut rear wheel, but I put the remaining brake line through the swingarm, as per the pics below.

The line runs forward from the rear master cylinder, inside of the foot rest hanger, then under the front of the swingarm & enters in to the arm via the square hole that is already there on the left inner side. It exits through the drain hole at the rear, which I rifled/drilled at an angle to make it big enough for the banjo head to fit through & gave the right angle for the hose to exit towards the new caliper !

[image: 1rearbrakelinerouting1.jpg]
 
Have fun.

Did you ditch the heat shield or did you get it back in with that routing?

SEBSPEED, Apr 10 2008, 08:19 PMThanks for the tip on the hole in the swingarm too Ralph, I'm pretty sure the 5th and 6th gen arms are the same?

Nope. 5th gen is smaller.

Decals came out really nice, too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fing02.gif)

Looks good Steve. How tight does the rubber fit?

SEBSPEED, Apr 11 2008, 07:07 PMLooks good Steve. How tight does the rubber fit?

"Pretty snug" is how I'd describe 'em. I'd still like to use something plastic like you suggested, however.