This is a new post as a continuation of my other thread regardig vibrations in the engine.
A little background...
Couple months ago I bougt a use 98 vfr800.� Has 30k on it.� It has always had a very slight vibration in the engine.� Wasn't sure if it was characteristic of the v4 engine but was annoying nonetheless.
Fast forward to last night when replacing my leaky clutch cover gasket...
I found the source of my problem.....at least I am pretty sure I did. I went to install a new clutch cover gasket because I had a little seeping on the old one.
Opened up the cover and found the outer clutch basket is missing about 3 or 4 "fingers" on the basket. Not the teeth on the gear, the actual fingers that surround the plates. WHAT THE H***!!!!� �
It would appear that the guy I got the bike from had an issue with it, pulled the cover (most of the bolts were barely wrench tight, more like finger tight), and saw that the basket was toast. There were pieces of the basket down in the oil pan. The problem is that I pulled the oil pan and got the pieces out, but theres only about 1 "finger" worth of piece, the other two are not in there.
Now I cannot see where the other pieces would go, and I would sure think that any larger pieces would fall to the bottom of the oil pan. But I dont know for sure if thats the case. Either way....looks like I need to get a new clutch basket, and exhaust gaskets (had to pull the headers to drop the oil pan).
Anyone ever heard of this happening??? Should I be scared that I cant find the other two pieces?
My belief is that the previous owner pulled the cover, got the pieces that he could see out of there, and slapped it back together. I was just the sucker that bought it!
Anyways....my spirits are very low my friends.....twas a bad day indeed!
Any advice is appreciated. If I get the new basket I would think that I "should" be ok.......right???
Ill post up a few pictures tomorrow of my mis-fortune!
I did research and found a complete good used clutch on eBay for about $80 shipped.� A new basket from Honda is $200+.� Should I go with the used assembly or get new?
Ebay can be good. But you can never be positive about the amount of miles and abuse that clutch basket has been through. So in this case i would go with new. :lobby:
I found all the pieces eventually, some were in the oil strainer which is right before the oil pump to keep all the big stuff out (like gears and pieces of your clutch drum), so check there as well. Changing the oil a few times frequently will help get the junk out too.
I guess I'm on the side that would get the used one, I haven't heard of one breaking like that. But you have to decide if its worth the extra to you for a new one
[image: View Post]Kalumia01, on 11 August 2011 - 09:08 AM, said:
My belief is that the previous owner pulled the cover, got the pieces that he could see out of there, and slapped it back together. I was just the sucker that bought it!
Maybe before pulling the cover he drained the oil and with it went most of the metal pieces. I don't know how hard it is to reach the oil pump but you could inspect it for wear. Any pieces that have gone past are now in the oil filter.
I guess the first decision is if I want to keep the bike.
I do love it, it's probably my favorite bike that I have owned.�
The big thing I am struggling with is if I invest the $ in the parts, what is the likelihood there is other unforeseen damage thats in there?� I can barely afford the new required parts to get it all back together, but any other damage would leave me broken down till more funds are available.� Is it likely a small shaving or piece got into an oil passage and could damage a crank journal bearing?? You guys know more about the stout quality of these Honda engines, so what do you think?
I did talk to my buddy who is a local mechanic at my Honda dealer, and he said if there aren't signs of shavings in the oil pickup screen then I'm probably in the clear.
Ugh...decisions.�
I am planning either way to run a couple changes of oil through to flush out any other shavings.� I'll probably do it after 100 miles, and again after another few hundred. I'll also look into a magnet drain plug too.
Im bummed out.� Not how I wanted to end my riding season!
I would agree that it's likely if something was going to go wrong it probably already would have happened. I have ridden the bike for probably 300 miles since purchase and the vibe hasn't gotten worse, and it runs/shifts just fine.
I think I'm just going to buy the used parts. What do I have to loose?
And heck if I save the money now I am just that much closer to the cost of a new engine if something does go wrong down the road...
While I'm sure it's possible, I've never heard of a clutch basket failing due to normal wear and tear. Maybe there was another reason that basket busted. But I concur that you should be fine moving forward. And a used clutch basket will likely be fine.
The V4 engine vibrates more than an inline 4, but not excessively. Check your engine mounts, make sure they're secure and tight?
Here are some pictures of the clutch basket, and the part that I got from the oil pan.
You can see 2 fingers missing at the top, and one missing at the 8 o'clock position. You can also see the remaining fingers are "bent outward" showing the whole basket is tweaked. The chunks were sitting in the oil pan. Cant hardly believe it ran and rode as good as it did!
Im now on the hunt for a good basket assembly, preferrably with the clutch plates, etc as a whole assembly! So if anyone knows of someone parting out a 5th gen motor, PLEASE let me know! Thanks!
[image: View Post]Kalumia01, on 11 August 2011 - 10:27 PM, said:
Here are some pictures of the clutch basket, and the part that I got from the oil pan.
You can see 2 fingers missing at the top, and one missing at the 8 o'clock position. You can also see the remaining fingers are "bent outward" showing the whole basket is tweaked. The chunks were sitting in the oil pan. Cant hardly believe it ran and rode as good as it did!
Im now on the hunt for a good basket assembly, preferrably with the clutch plates, etc as a whole assembly! So if anyone knows of someone parting out a 5th gen motor, PLEASE let me know! Thanks!
Impressive but... how the hell does that even happen? Almost looked like someone over revved the motor to the point the basket flew apart .. but I'm sure that's not it. Reminds me of my old beta trials bike when I accidentally busted one of the lands off of the inner clutch basket. Solution was to break off the opposing land and run with 4 springs instead of 6. Never had any problems with it at all. I wouldn't suggest you break off the opposing fingers though, failure on a street bike has the potential for somewhat greater consequences.
I've bought used VFR stuff from that seller, gsmess, and got a fair shake. :fing02:
Ya know, it's funny that link came up. I saw that yesterday and sent the seller a few clarifying questions about the part. We went back and forth a couple emails, and the guy completely freaked out on me for asking detailed questions saying that in his experience any seller that aske this many questions was nothing but trouble. He even blocked me from buying it!! It was completely mind blowing. I guess thats what I get for trying to clarify that he was sincere in his listing. Must have insulted him or something...I don't really know. He even said he was going to report me to eBay for harassing him and threatening his business for stating that "I will mention your user name and how you have handled my inquiries on the forums that I frequent."
Anyways, that honestly would be the perfect part, exactly what I need for a fair price. But now I am blocked from buying it.
Hopefully somebody out there or on this forum has a spare 5th Gen motor they are parting out!!!!
You can cut open the oil filter as well and see if there are any metal shavings in there. Might give some better insight on if metal has went through the system.
I've bought used VFR stuff from that seller, gsmess, and got a fair shake. :fing02:
Ya know, it's funny that link came up. I saw that yesterday and sent the seller a few clarifying questions about the part. We went back and forth a couple emails, and the guy completely freaked out on me for asking detailed questions saying that in his experience any seller that aske this many questions was nothing but trouble. He even blocked me from buying it!! It was completely mind blowing. I guess thats what I get for trying to clarify that he was sincere in his listing. Must have insulted him or something...I don't really know. He even said he was going to report me to eBay for harassing him and threatening his business for stating that "I will mention your user name and how you have handled my inquiries on the forums that I frequent."
Anyways, that honestly would be the perfect part, exactly what I need for a fair price. But now I am blocked from buying it.
Hopefully somebody out there or on this forum has a spare 5th Gen motor they are parting out!!!!
Wow, I never had a hitch. But then, I didn't ask a buncha questions either.
I bought a beautiful set of barely used RC51 SP2 forks from him, got exactly what I expected. Good price too.
And also an ignition switch, which turned out to be the wrong one for my '99, so he refunded my money IN FULL, and told me not to bother sending the switch back.
And two other items which I can't remember what they were, but I left him positive feedback for those, so I guess those were OK too.
[image: View Post]baldyjoe, on 12 August 2011 - 06:48 AM, said:
get a friend to buy it for u
To ensure I do not violate any policies with the online auction website I should not comment on the possibility of doing that...haha.
And yes veefer800, he has very clean feedback ratings, as do I. I have no negative feedback, and have been a member for almost 10 years! Wish it would have gone differently but it's too late to turn back now.
[image: View Post]Ryanme17, on 11 August 2011 - 07:38 PM, said:
[image: View Post]Crewwolfy, on 11 August 2011 - 02:09 PM, said:
The V4 engine vibrates more than an inline 4, but not excessively. Check your engine mounts, make sure they're secure and tight?
A 90 degree V4 has near-perfect primary balance and should vibrate considerably LESS than an inline 4. Inline 4's are known for being buzzy.
It buzzes less, but it is WAY more lumpy at low revs. A mate of my dad's who had never owned a V4 bought a VFR and sold it soon after, saying that it felt like the bottom was going to fall out of it. If you ride a VFR at less than 3,000rpm, it is very lumpy indeed.
My guess is that the PO was trying to work on the clutch and broke off those tabs trying to hold the basket still in and attempt to tighten the main nut! VFR clutch assemblies are fairly stable and this is the VERY FIRST 5th gen basket issue I've ever heard of!
I have a 98 in the garage and I'm pretty sure with over 120k miles on it's original basket.
Most bike are low mileage(10,20,30k) used and I would have no issue buying a used assembly, if it did have and deep ware dents in the basket fingers then sand them smooth before re-installing.
BR
PS welcome to VFRD! I wouldn't worry about the bike, just the PO! :biggrin:
Sent some requests to salvage yards today to see if I can find some parts. Also still looking on the interwebs too. Hope to find something soon so progress can be made.
Every part of me was so angry the other night when I found this, but I just have to cool down and think that nothing I will do or say will change my situation.� I might feel better for venting back to the guy, but what good will it really do?� Won't fix my bike, and won't turn back time.� Believe me, it's a tough thing to let go, but I am really trying to think positively!�
Being upset isn't worth being grouchy and missing out on life.� It's not fair to my wife an little girl that I am grouchy to them over a motorcycle.� If anything I can be mad at myself for buying the bike.� Although it's not like I would have found this sort of issue on a typical pre-purchase ride or inspection.
Seriously not trying to toot my own horn here, but I'm trying to be the bigger person and just work on keeping positive to get the bike fixed!
Hoping to get it back together and back on the road to enjoy this wonderful weather!
Found a salvage place called cycle therapy and spoke with the owner, David. He is shipping me a complete clutch assembly with all plates, inner and outer basket, springs, etc for $125 shipped. Coming out of a bike with 10,070 miles. He said the clutch is still in the bike, so they're pulling it today and will ship it either this afternoon or Monday. I am very pleased! He even said that if it arrives and I'm not happy with it I can send it back no questions asked, and they will pay shipping!
Anyways, looks like next week I'll have some parts! : )
[image: View Post]Kalumia01, on 12 August 2011 - 01:54 PM, said:
Good news update...parts are ordered!
Found a salvage place called cycle therapy and spoke with the owner, David. He is shipping me a complete clutch assembly with all plates, inner and outer basket, springs, etc for $125 shipped. Coming out of a bike with 10,070 miles. He said the clutch is still in the bike, so they're pulling it today and will ship it either this afternoon or Monday. I am very pleased! He even said that if it arrives and I'm not happy with it I can send it back no questions asked, and they will pay shipping!
Anyways, looks like next week I'll have some parts! : )
So I got some time to get the bike inspected more today, and started the dismantle of the bike to get ready for replacement parts. I found some really scary damage, and a lot of reason to be glad this was discovered in my garage, not on the side of the road! Also found that I am blessed to be alive, cause this was some nasty damage! Someone could have seriously been hurt if that basket would have come apart the rest of the way!
Anyways, here are the findings today. Lots of metal pieces cleaned out of the oil sump. Glad to know the sump screen caught all of that, and the filter should have gotten all of the rest of it! Also, notice the damage on the inner basket from the plates rubbing, the spring damage, the wear on the clutch plate, and the huge crack down the middle of the basket splitting it in half!
Sure hope this is the last of my problems.....and Im pretty confident this should fix my vibration issue! :biggrin:
How in the hell does THAT happen? It's not even cracked where the gear is bolted to the clutch hub. Obviously someone has been in there that had absolutely NO business even having keys to a motorcycle, but this fruitcake thought he was fixing something! :laughing6-hehe:
[image: View Post]Kalumia01, on 12 August 2011 - 01:54 PM, said:
Found a salvage place called cycle therapy and spoke with the owner, David. [snip] He even said that if it arrives and I'm not happy with it I can send it back no questions asked, and they will pay shipping!
Sounds like a very good place to know about. Is it this: Cycle Therapy?
End of thread · 30 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 30 Jul 2012