When I am braking to come to a stop, I get a sensation (for lack of a better term) right before stopping that the steering stem is loose. I replaced the stem bearings last winter with Balls and have since gone back and tighten the stem a bit more but there has been no real change in this sensation. So my question is.....is this the "famous" 4th Gen fork flexing that I have read about? I have pretty much convinced myself it is and from what I have read there is nothing I can do about it other than replace the forks. DMR had redone the forks. Appreciate comments.
Well, there has been loads of opinions over the years, including companies making braces for the 3rd/4th gen.
I've never (since 1997..) felt any flex in the forks. There is this mildly annoying clacking sound that comes and goes. It went away for a while after new bearing were fitted.
Perhaps time to check the torque on them..
Speaking of which, what size socket should I buy and are there any dimension/drawings of the notches I have to cut to have the proper tool for the job?
I am not able to get any movement out of stem bearings when I was trying to determine where this "sensesation" was coming from, only when riding and coming to a stop do I feel this. When I tightened the stem nut a bit more I used a drift and hammer to tap the ring a bit tighter, only did a small bit as it seemed to me to already be torqued down. I checked the fork tube clamps, axle nut, pinch bolts and all were nice and tight. I did find that both calipers were a bit loose and I thought I had found the source, but after torquing them down, I still felt something move...but not near a much...so the loose calipers were part of it. I am still working on this.....just thought I would get comments from others before I take the front off/a part again.
As far as tools required to do this job: need a 30mm socket to remove the top stem nut. I used some slip-joint pliers, drift, hammer to get the notched ring off and back on. Of course the most difficult part is getting the old bearings/races off and new bearings on without nicking the stem itself, especically the bottom bearing. Others have made a compression tool using lots of large washers, nuts and a length of all thread to pull the bearings into place. I have a bearing tool from Harbor Freight that worked fine for getting the races and bearings into the steering head.
Replaced the bearings with All Balls over a year ago, and always felt a little movement/noise from the triple clamps ever since.
I tried everything to narrow it down, but couldn't get it to move by hand. It was always felt at a hard stop or tight corner entry under brakes. It just felt like the top triple was moving very slightly.
Finally decided to replace them again with after market Japanese bearings a couple of weeks ago, and problem has gone away.
All Balls doesn't make bearings, but I'd once heard that they used non-OEM quality bearings in their kits. But the bearings themselves will be marked with the manufacturer's name, so it would be easy to tell if the failed bearings were Japanese or, WAG here, Chinese...
VFROZ: YES....exactly what I am feeling.....when I am on the front brakes....or when I hit a small hole in the pavement at slow speed....just feels like there is movement....somewhere in the front.
Just came back from a 105 mile ride and the movement is still there. Guess it is time to take the front off...again.....oh well....getting to hot to ride anyways here in the desert.
Could you tell me more about these bearings you used?
The top bearing that was faulty on mine was part 10, 11 and 15, but the one in the picture is the standard honda ball bearing, not any of the aftermarket roller bearings.
The ball bearings are torqued untill you get a specific drag on the fork movement.
The rollers are torqued until all play or gap is taken out.
The Honda top bearing is actually a non-standard bearing, in the sense that the bearing code "32005" would ordinarily correspond to an ID of 25mm. However, the Honda top bearing has a 26mm ID, so this bearing is usually referred to as 32005/X or 32005/26. Bearings are supposed to be precision-manufactured. I shudder to think how bad the manufacturing process must have been to result in a "loose" top bearing. All Balls. Another satisfied customer!
Of course I have not had time yet to take the front off yet....but since this weekend has 112-114 in the forecast...not going to be riding anywhere.
I know the bottom All Balls bearing was tight, do not remeber the top one. Plan is to take off the top first without removing the wheel or forks to see if this is the problem.
Wonder if okay to replace top bearing only and leave the bottom one alone??? Not like the bottom one has alot of miles on it....maybe 1000.
Use taper head race bearings, much stronger than balls, last longer & are properly adjustable. Also check your Brake rotors for movement at the bobbins. I had a similar feeling on my 5th gen when I got it & its had just had taper head bearings installed. I tightened these to the correct spec, but the feeling was still there. Turned out to be work bobbins/carrier on the discs which were nearly down to the wear limit, so I changed the discs & the feeling went away.
Of course I have not had time yet to take the front off yet....but since this weekend has 112-114 in the forecast...not going to be riding anywhere.
I know the bottom All Balls bearing was tight, do not remeber the top one. Plan is to take off the top first without removing the wheel or forks to see if this is the problem.
Wonder if okay to replace top bearing only and leave the bottom one alone??? Not like the bottom one has alot of miles on it....maybe 1000.
Yes, you can replace just the top bearing, but the normal way to remove the top bearing outer race involves removing the bottom yoke and hitting the race from below (i.e., through the steering head) with a sharp drift. (And you should always replace bearings together with their races.)
The lower bearing inner race is an interference fit onto the bottom of the steering stem, but the top bearing inner race is supposed to be a slip fit onto the top of the steering stem. I'm not sure how to measure how much slip is too much, but hopefully it will be obvious when you get it off.
Yes I know that to replace the top bearing I would need to remove the stem so as to replace bearing and race....I was just going to check the fit of the top bearing to see how tight it was on the stem.
Mohawk: I did not know the work bobbins/carriers wore....what wears these down?...just the flexing of the disc during braking? I looked at my manual and only refers to disc thickness....so tell me more about what I am not knowing about these work bobbins/carriers....if you would.
So today I was able to spend some quality time with the VFR; removed the clip-ons and then the top clamp to expose the stem nut. The stem nut and locking nut were both just finger tight! So that explains why I was feeling movement. So I made sure that I torqued the stem nut and the locking / jam nut down and put it all back together. Went for a very short ride and upon braking no longer felt the movement.....so my problem is solved except I am trying to determine just how to keep those nuts tight. The two lock together and the top clamp presses down on them, but there is no real locking feature.
Anyways if I feel this movement again, I know exactly where to look.
Thanks for everyone's replies. 115°F today....not going to be doing any riding for awhile.
I guess I was the last person that had the stem apart; however the locking washer only has two tabs on it which I bent into the locking nut notches. I did not notice that there were two tabs missing....just that there was no real locking feature as it is. Looks like I will be ordering a new locking washer as a previous person must have broken two tabs off and just put it back together...which is why I made the comment I did above.
Thanks guys for making me actually LOOK AT the parts diagram and see the problem/solution.
The 4th gen forks definitely has some flex in it. Just look down the fork leg through the front fairing from your saddle, squeeze the front brake, turn the bars with the wheel against rigid object like a wall . look at the plane (edge of rim) of the wheel and you will see it easily go off plane quite a bit from the fork leg with not much pressure on the bars.
I could not believe what I saw when I did this the first time and had to do it a few times to confirm that the front fork was flexing so easiy. I remember how much I improved the feel of my Hawk GT's front end when I added a Telefix fork brace on it and decided to do the same with the VFR. I got the same good results doing so. More compliant/responsive fork action on rough surfaces and more stable handling at high speeds.
I agree that the 4th gen forks flex. I now have RC51 forks on mine and it is totally rigid by comparison.
Regarding the locking nut system using the 4 tab washer, all it does is lock the 2 locking nuts together, and not to the shaft at all. This does have a side benefit in that it is possible to adjust the head bearing preload without taking off the top triple, and just by loosening the top external nut and tapping the pair of locked together round nuts with a screwdriver from underneath the top triple together. I have used this to make small adjustments to headstem tension when necessary. I use tapered rollers and small adjustments are critical.
It is essential that the 2 round nuts are locked together not too tightly to enable this.
Overall, the system leaves a bit to be desired, IMO
Since I had time I removed the top clamp again to check the locking ring; it does have all four tabs, so nothing wrong there. However the top jam nut was only finger tight again; the problem here is that in order to align the notches of the two nuts so the locking ring tabs fit, the top or jam nut is not very tight. I tried to continue to tighten the top nut, but the stem nut begins to turn as well so I was getting nowhere. I would need four hands to try to hold the stem nut in place and tap the jam nut tighter OR have the proper tools which I do not.
I read from past postings that someone made a fork brace for the VFR....but that was quite some time ago and in doing a search I found none to fit my '97. I will search ebay every so often just to see if one comes-up for sale.
I read from past postings that someone made a fork brace for the VFR....but that was quite some time ago and in doing a search I found none to fit my '97. I will search ebay every so often just to see if one comes-up for sale.
Check out this post, seem that a brace made for the VTR1000F will fit 4th Gens
I did some additional searching and found that Coerce still makes a fork brace for the VTR1000.....and I am thinking about getting it. It requires some modification to the black dust boots as the fork brace would go below these and covers the groove that the dust boots fit in. The link above author said he used some hose clamps to hold the dust boots in place. Since I have found the solution to the problem I was having, not sure I really need this brace....so I am still thinking about it.
Yeah...I agree....going to pass on the fork brace. I think the forks are the best they can be after DMR did what he does to them (along with the rear shock), so again, no fork brace for me.
Just installed a fork brace on my 4th gen out of curiosity, someone says it isn't worth it others say it is.
I say it is, feels more ridgid, no wallowing on tarsnakes, low speed manouverabiltiy is better, feels more steady going over bumps in high speed corners.
Got a DMR rearshock and DMR cartridgekit in the forks all setup to my weight.
But opinions are like assholes everybody got one :)
Installation is easy, just use a flat screwdriver to pry the fork protectors out of the groove, then install the fork brace, then you just push the fork protectors
down against the forkbrace. Good luck! The brace won't transform your bike into a motogp racer, but gives little more stability.
No don't have any pictures at the moment, i'm on vacation at the moment :beer:
years ago, when 4th gens were nearly new there was alot of discussion about loose-fitting fork bushings--the lower one especially. When i had my forks apart i saw for myself how much slop was present, so i fitted a shim between the fork and bushing that reduced the slop to near zero.
Wouldn't be the first time Honda had sloppy clearances in production. Shimming is a good idea. I anodized my fork lowers inside & out, it's supposed to reduce or prevent the alloy/oil corrosion process. I'll let ya know when I change the oil this winter if it worked.
All I can say is just try a fork brace before taking the word of a few people here that swear off them......
They either had a fork that was so crapped out already that a fork brace would not have made any difference anyway, or they just did not have a flex problem on their bike to start with, or they bought a brace that's not designed correctly, so they could not feel any difference. Regardless, majority of people I know that added them on their bikes, definitely felt a difference for the better....... Heck the worse that could happen is you can return it to the seller for a refund if you are not satisfied......
End of thread · 43 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 10 Jul 2017