Slow burn 5th gen build - old skool kool!

Hello All, 

I’ve been dreaming up this build for a few years and despite that still don’t have a clear picture of where it’s going to end up. 
 

With family and work commitments I get very little wrenching time (couple hours per moth if I’m lucky - seriously) so don’t expect regular updates. 
 

Anyway, the idea is to build an ultimate 5th gen that’s lighter, faster, nimbler and cool (the latter is subjective, of course). 
 

Inspiration comes from endurance racers of the ‘70s and ‘80s although the final look is still in the air. The central theme is the bike has to work first and look good second. But still has to look good...um...you know what I mean. Endurance racers have that wonderful utilitarian look. Every part of them has to function properly and there’s nothing on it that doesn’t need to be there. 
 

Hopefully I’ll finish this someday and I’ll post bits and pieces here as she progresses. Some parts of this build feature in other threads so I’ll try to summarise here to keep everything in one place. 
 

Finally, I’d like to thank the fantastic membership here for their help with modifications and upgrades etc. This build is an homage to all of you and would not have been possible without your ingenuity. 
 

Best, 

Stray

Hello All, 

Got me a lowish mileage 5th gen motor (10,000 miles) on the bench and just starting to get at her. 
 

I wanted to clean the crud off before opening her up to keep dirt out of the bits I upgrade. Bit of brake cleaner and a toothbrush never hurt anyone...

Whilst scrubbing I noticed some scribe marks appear from under the the grime. Serves me right for removing her protective film! 
 

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The cylinder heads have codes scribed on either side by hand, at the top just under the cover gasket. Looked at the other 2 engines in the shed and they’re the same - never noticed this before! 
 

Here are a few pics: 

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Looks like DZ35

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Looks like DY54

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Looks like 1099. Also two interesting round stamps with codes on. 
 

Any idea what these are from? Are they production line control numbers or do they relate to some machining tolerance or set of camshafts, for example? 
 

Got me curious! 
 

Also, I noticed some cracks in the casting surfaces. Really crummy casting in places. At first I thought they might be stress fractures but these appear in unstressed places too. Plus engine is low mileage. 
 

Here are some pics: 

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They’re quite pronounced on the PAIR section and even the spark plug holes. Odd, as these aren’t stress areas. I’m going to swap a different set of covers on but it did surprise me. 

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Closeup of the PAIR tower. 

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Some small ones near the swingarm mount section of the lower engine cases (look at the two little bolts under engine number). In fact there are little ones everywhere. 

Really poor casting or poor alloying? 

Last weekend I installed the Factory Pro shift star kit from the group buy I organised on here a couple years ago. 
 

Told you this was a slow project! 
 

Started by removing sprocket cover and shifter cover to access the star. Bit of chain grease, anyone? [image: C98E7334-361F-457E-BE97-4A230165A015.thumb.jpeg.e5ef5a8530b7cb7e78aa98d2991d530e.jpeg]
Nothing a bit of spray oil, brake cleaner and toothbrush can’t fix! 

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Now the joy of gasket-scraping the shifter cover...

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Razor blade and patience to the rescue. 
 

Everything smooth so far...until that b@stard shift star bolt. Jesus that thing hates me! I used a brand new Bondhus hex key (best in the world), applied very smooth pressure and it still stripped. Then came the pain...
 

Forced a hardened star key into the stripped hex with a hammer and cranked...no joy. 

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Put a butane torch on its @$$ for a good while (forgot take pics as was “fuming” - ha ha ha!)...no joy
 

Broke our the lump hammer and bolt extractor and went to town on it...no joy

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I was having visions of drilling off the head and using a stud extractor on the remainder. Getting quite angry now!!! 

So I reached for an old set of easy-outs as a last resort and mercifully the bolt gave way. Old OEM shift star in my hand next to the mangled bolt. 
 

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Adding insult to injury, when ordering a new bolt I entered the wrong part number and got a sprocket bolt instead (I’ve already got 4 of those!). Anyway, it’s just a standard thread M8 bolt so I got a Ti one out the box, applied some thread lock and called it good. 

Comparison of OEM and Factory Pro shift stars below. Factory pro has rounded profiles and a little tab on the back so you can’t install it wrong. 
 

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Comparison of OEM (top) vs Factory Pro (bottom) shift arm and spring. Springs look about the same but you’ll notice the FP has a ceramic bearing on the end instead of a plain bearing. Should make shifting smoother. 

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All installed with Ti bolt, Loctite and a smear of grease. 

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Time to replace all seals and bearings in this area whilst we’re here. New bearing and seal for shifter (pressed into shifter cover), new clutch push rod seal, new water pump o ring...and then it all went wrong when I changed the countershaft/sprocket seal. 

Socket used to drive bearing and seal home in shifter cover. Old bearing on the side fir reference - had to be smashed out with cold chisel and hammer.  [image: ED3FEFE7-F6C2-470A-8CF0-A001B6BC31E9.thumb.jpeg.3e057e428e770d74cf3557e09b795723.jpeg]

New o-ring for water pump. 

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New clutch pushrod seal. 
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My pain with the sprocket shaft seal is documented in another thread. The forum helped save this engine! 
 

If you’ve missed that thread the seal in question has an inner lip that can’t be pressed in from the outside. You need to split the cases and fit it from the inside - CRAZY! 
 

Don’t replace this sea unless you HAVE to. It’s not suitable for preventative maintenance. If you HAVE to get it out, drill a 3mm hole into the top (careful not to drill the bearing behind it - there’s about 10mm of space), twist a drywall screw into the hole and pull the seal out. 
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I drilled two holes as the seal was tough to pull out. 

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By pull I mean HEAVE like you’ve never heaved before. That lip makes it a real b@stard to remove. 
 

This pic shows a new seal on the left vs the seal I just tried to install from the right without removing the lip. Lip catches in the bore and peels backwards, ripping the outer part of the seal off as you drive it in. 
 

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If you’re fitting this seal from the outside just trim the lip off with a sharp blade and press it in with some 3 bond to seal the outside bore.
 

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Or go one better and buy an aftermarket seal without a lip as it will slide in stronger without trying to peel off at the edges. 

Drive the seal in as square as possible to stop the outside pealing away. The 3 bond helps lubricate it for smooth entry.  

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Used my wife’s water bottle as a driver. 

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Seal seated with a sliver of 3 bond showing around the outside. Try to install the seal so it misses the wear marks made on the shaft by the previous seal. 

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Then give it a smear of 3 bond on the outside to help seal it better. Ugly but it works and the sprocket will cover it anyway. 
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Time to cut down the sprocket cover. 
 

Had a spare in the shed and wanted to have a bit of fun tickling it with the angle grinder. 
 

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Grinder got excited and tickled it too much - ended up taking off rather a lot more than intended. 

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Not sure how it’s going to look on the bike but it is less than half the weight of an OEM. Was going to cut some of the central section away as per triangles marked out with sharpie but concerned about chain spatter so left it closed. 
 

Initial thought was to allow sprocket changes without removing the cover but position of speedo drive makes that impossible.
 

Might go back to stock if I don’t like it. Let’s see...

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This is the exhaust side of the front head on my 5th gen. These sort of look machine made but as pointed out, some look hand done.  I can't guess what "K053" means.   In one of the round marks on yours it has "00 | 12" .  I wonder if that's indicating that the head was cast in December of 2000.   From what I've seen of VIN plates on these bikes, most were assembled in Sept / Oct.  Is this motor from an '01?

I don't have anything like the cracks you have around the PAIR ports.  I've never seen anything like that.  

I would hazard a wild ass guess that the scribed number on the heads relate to a height tolerance on the cam journals. Perhaps the cam gears are toleranced as sets and selected based on those numbers to get optimum total backlash. Or it could be the employee number of the person who checked them...

The circular numbers are die codes, usually they give the die number and date/shift the casting was made. I've seen marks like the 'cracks' in the cover in parts that are high pressure die cast and are more like flow marks, maybe due to a die not fully warmed up. If you sanded them smooth I doubt there would be any depth to them, although it does look shabby.

Thanks for the input, gents. Every day is a school day. Amazing how a build lets you get to know your engine better! 
 

Forgot to say I buffed the pitting out of the chain guide flange thingy (what’s this thing called?). Used a soft wheel on the drill and some fine compound to avoid burning through what’s left of the zinc coating. 
 

Before: 
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After (it’s not the same - I promise!): 

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Still looks rough but at least it’s smooth so the cases can mate together flush. 

Good progress. I love big projects. What I found working well for general cleaning is kerosene, paint brush and elbow grease then rinsed by hot water. BTW Zinc plating or phosphating are actually pretty easy at home. 

Hello Folks, 

Got a bit more done today - valve shims adjusted and buttoned up. More on that below. 
 

First, an update on some of the engine case markings. The ones that look like they were made by machine match the camshaft clamp numbers inside. Funny how I’ve never noticed before (although my engine has never been clean enough to make them out before!). 
 

Markings on outside of cylinder head (facing throttle bodies)...

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...matching camshaft clamp.

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Different code in front and rear cylinders and they both match their respective clamps. Must be paired up at the factory. 

Also, that “stress cracking” described earlier is all over these engines. Inside and out. Even the cam clamp has some. I opened up one of my scrap engines to harvest the shims and that one had crazing all over too. Must be a casting flaw as Dangeruss says. 
 

Anyway, on to the valve adjustment. 
 

First thing is to spin the engine with a 14mm socket on the crank until cylinder 1 T mark lines up with the cutout on the clutch cover (no photos of this - sorry!). The gear markings must be facing away from each other and parallel to the cylinder head. If they don’t, spin another 360* until they do. 
 

You’ll have to spin the engine separately to measure each cylinder as per the manual. It’s simpler if you go 1, 3, 2 then 4. This helps keep the lobes properly aligned and you can separate the front and rear cylinder heads. 
 

Fit the feeler gauges between the cam lobe and shin bucket to measure clearances. Intake is 0.16mm and Exhaust is 0.30mm with a tolerance of 0.03 on both. 
 

Any shims out of spec must be removed, measured and replaced with an appropriate size to bring the gap back into spec. 
 

With only 10k miles I didn’t expect much to be wrong but there were some that required attention. One of the intake valves in cylinder 3 was on the very edge of spec at 0.13. 
 

Here are my notes: 

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Had a few old shims from another engine so I stuck them on a strip of double-sided tape along with micrometer measurement in case they could be reused. 
 

Initially, I planned on getting everything exactly in the centre of spec but even with playing “shim shimmy” that was impossible. I’d have to settle for good enough. 
 

Once measured the head would need taking apart so the shins can be accessed and swapped. Before undoing any bolts I like to mark the cams with sharpie and a ruler so they can go back in exactly the same way. Also I colour in the teeth where cam gears meet for extra precision. 

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Undo cam holder bolts in a crisis-cross pattern about 1/2 a turn at a time until loose. This helps the clamp rise true and not warp. If the cam clamp binds on one side it can start rising skew - just tickle it with a rubber mallet to keep it flat. 

If you’re struggling to remove cam gear clamps try sticking some close-fitting tools in the hole so you can wiggle them free. I used some chisels but screwdrivers will do. Just avoid going deep enough to damage the bolt threads. Wiggling and judicious application of a rubber mallet will have it all apart briskly! 
 

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I like to keep bolts in the same holes just in case there are any minor variations. Best not to mix up your hardware. 
 

Good chance to give the PAIR and spark plug dowels a good clean. My o-rings looked OK so they got reused. 
 

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Now use a magnet to pull out the shim bucket so we can remove the shim under it.

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Careful: sometimes the shim comes out with the bucket and can roll free. I spent 15 minutes hunting one on the floor and another 15 minutes fishing one out of the engine with the magnet...

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Here’s the little shim: 7.48mm diameter. Tiny little things! 

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They don’t seem to have a way up as they’re factory fitted with their size markings facing both up and down. I noticed where they meet the valve they develop a small circular wear mark. The side meeting the bucket has a bigger circular wear mark. This, along with minor swirls on the buckets suggests these spin as the camshaft lobes hammer them. Interesting design...

Another observation: virtually none of the size markings are exactly right. The micrometer found most markings were wrong - only two on the whole engine were bang on! 

Here’s an example: shim is marked 182 but micrometer says it’s 183. 

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All measurements finally finished. 

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I was planning to get everything to exact spec (0.16 intake and 0.30 exhaust) but shins are only available in 0.05 increments (or 0.025 from dealer at eye watering prices, so I couldn’t get it bang on no matter what I did. 
 

Then I read the KevCarver has had success with sanding his shims to the exact size he needs, so I thought let’s give it a go! 

Got a piece of flat glass, some worn 400grit wet-and-dry paper, duct take and a drop of dish soap. [image: 245A4811-D098-49BA-87F1-784190B7F1C9.thumb.jpeg.bc55d09caf1370ab9e60a32020f5c1d2.jpeg]

Experimented on the slightly tight exhaust valve that only needed 5 hundredths of a mm (mm, not inch!) removed. Took measurements before sanding. Was 173...

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...and after sanding (now 1725). 
 

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Sanding is done in a figure 8, measuring every few strokes and turning the admin 90* every now and then to keep the cutting even. 
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Within about 5 mins I’d rubbed off the 5 hundredths and the rubber side was smooooth! 
 

But upon inspection of the shim it seems the side I sanded now had chamfered edges and the face was ever so slightly domed where I probably rocked the shim with my finger whilst sanding. 
 

Compare the straight reflection on the original face...

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...with the slightly domed reflection on the sanded face. 
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See how it’s rounded on the edges? Probably from rocking when rubbed and possibly where water made the sandpaper warp. Very hard to hold these shims flat as they’re so small. Might work better with shims of a bigger diameter (like on my Yamaha) but these are just too small so I decided not to sand any more of the VFR ones. 
 

Time to swap the two shims I could service and button everything back up. For this I’d need my own home-made camshaft moonshine to keep things smooth on first startup when there’s no oil. 
 

For that we need equal measures of engine oil and WS2 grease, with a pinch of WS2 powder to taste. Similar sort of thing to molly EP grease only slightly more slippery (and a bit more expensive!). All thrown into a sriracha sauce bottle with 3 old bolts to help mix things up. 
 

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Give the bottle a good shake and let the bolts mix everything together nicely. 
 

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It’s a homemade engine assembly paste, I suppose. With a bit of luck the WS2 will burnish into the cam lobes and journals to help reduce wear. 

This special sauce is then dropped on the shims, buckets and most importantly on the cam bearing surfaces. A paintbrush helps achieve good coverage. 
 

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Also brushed this sauce on the cam gears and cam journals to minimise damage on first startup. 
 

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At last everything is back in position and properly greased up. 
 

With everything in place it pays to spin the motor a few times and recheck valve clearances. On the rear bank I found some of my clearances had shrunk by 0.005. 
 

Much swearing ensued!!!

Upon inspection I realised my torque wrench was set to 13Nm instead of the specified 12Nm. So I loosened all the bolts and redid them at 12Nm, at which point my clearances were fine again. 
 

You MUST use a torque wrench for this procedure as just a bit too much could wear your camshaft bearing surfaces and mess up your valve timing!  
 

Hope this helps someone on the same journey. 
 

Stray

Any advice on where to pour a bit of engine oil to aid first startup? Do I drop some down the spark plug hole? Drizzle a bit over the open area under the camshafts? 
 

The spinning of the buckets is similar to how pushrod motors spin the lifters and pushrods. The cam grind and bucket lifter profiles are done in such a way to make that happen.  Keeps the wear even.  They wouldn't last long otherwise! 

1 hour ago, Stray

Any advice on where to pour a bit of engine oil to aid first startup? Do I drop some down the spark plug hole? Drizzle a bit over the open area under the camshafts? 
 

I use engine assembly lube for that purpose, interesting idea with your own lube. Oil is fine if you are ready to put an engine into service right away. Not from this company but bird is fine

“Also, that “stress cracking” described earlier is all over these engines. Inside and out. Even the cam clamp has some. I opened up one of my scrap engines to harvest the shims and that one had crazing all over too. Must be a casting flaw as Dangeruss says.”

Nothing to worry about those “turtle cracks”, just cosmetics and quite normal for aluminum die casted parts. Those veins are cracks fills - cracks that appears in the molds, not in the casted  part. You could clean them up with a Dremel tool if you fancy....

Hello All, 

Been toying with the idea of using an 8th gen cushion to mount different rearsets and possibly a slightly longer swingarm on my 5th gen (6th/8th gen swingers are slightly longer than 5th gen). 

For those of you wanting to swap cushions across the 5th, 6th and 8th gen bikes, here are some comparison pics.
 

First off, they’re not a straight swap and they’re quite different in size! 
 

In this pic the 8th gen cushion is on the left and 5th gen is on the right. 

[image: 9F051117-9459-4C7D-9166-903A516FD91B.thumb.jpeg.246617e2758760ea45c498a331b8a82b.jpeg]

Note how the 5th gen item is narrower overall as the rearsets on that model make up the difference. 5th gen engine mounting gap, however, is much wider than the 8th gen. 

Here you can see the swingarm mounting points aren’t the same on both cushions. Note the centre lug is thicker in the 8th gen. I “believe” 6th gen cushions have the same spacing as 8th but please correct me if wrong. 
 

[image: DAF451E6-433E-461E-8DF6-7912A3354F46.thumb.jpeg.37d2cf330044e6c8c0ec4b4fbfa19a51.jpeg]

[image: 0628F643-4591-4FBA-A2B3-24D906631F68.thumb.jpeg.48e5b824ea9b437243439fa73277ea38.jpeg]

The above pic shows how much more substantial the 8th gen item is. 
 

5th gen cushion is 1.264kg. 8th gen is a whopping 2.161kg - nearly double!!!

Edit: the 8thbgen item has a little extra weight from the broken centre stand bolt stud stuck in its lug. Few grams maybe? 

I’ve decided to remain stock and keep weight down. Not sure how much more the 5th gen setup weighs with its rearsets (these form part of the cushion) but can’t imagine it adds up to the same as an 8th gen. 
 

Also curious how Seb’s rearset adaptors compare for weight. Can’t be very much (and they look sooooo cool!). 

Also not sure how the 6th gen cushion compares. I believe the mounting spaces are same as 8th gen but shape for rearsets is different. 
 

Just some info for anyone wanting to do these mods. 
 

Best, 

Stray

Good info! Interesting comparison, I just ordered one of these on Ebay the other day for the same reason. I would have bought Sebs 5th gen mounts but he's not making them at the moment so I gave this a look. In your middle pic you have the 5th gen flipped compared to the 8th, the suspension link mounting width should be the same because the same part number is used across all generations. The 6th and 8th gen also share the same part number for the cushion bracket itself. The broken bolt in yours is likely the notorious right side left hand threaded centerstand bolt (versus right hand thread on the 5th gen), this is one of the extra parts needed for the swap. The cross bolts that fasten this through the engine case have different part numbers as well, although the lengths are the same between 5th and 6/8th. Possibly the head is different on the later one since it is clamped in the bracket. You also need to replace the centerstand pivot bolt and nut as it is more like a front axle and clamped on both ends in the late model bracket.

Centerstands and sidestands have different numbers but apparently centerstands interchange, side stands likely do as well.

Installing this will be a fun since the swingarm needs to come off and so does the centerstand, part of the job if you are changing engines. A good time to replace seals and lube swingarm and link bearings.

Also resets 6th to 8th gen look similar except for a plugged hole on the left side but have different part #s. They should interchange since the bracket itself is the same part. The extra hole on the 8th gen looks like it might be for a footrest mounted shift lever, but these don't cross reference to any other bikes, so who knows?

Have you ever seen a thing more terrifying? 
 

Took me all day to get the loom out. Bet it’ll take me a week of swearing to get it back in...

Left myself some notes on positioning with masking tape but they’re nothing close to comprehensive. 
 

God, I hate wiring! 
 

Also, the loom weighs a tonne. Got speaking to a guy who built his bike with a Motogadget Blue unit - this replaces all your wiring (except the ECU) with a tiny little gizmo that controls everything (lights, ignition, sensors etc). If it was guaranteed to work on the 5th gen I’d buy one but Motogadget can’t confirm. They did say it won’t work for HISS models though. 

So folks, have I gone crazy? Do you like any of the below or am I barking mad? 

You’ve got to try imagine it properly fitted and painted, which I’ll agree is difficult. 
 

For any new visitors, this is 5th gen that I’m building into a retro road racer. It’s remit will be fast road use, touring and track days. Going for the 80’s endurance racer vibe. 

[image: D7DC18A2-3BD1-4977-A937-68FE40EB597C.thumb.jpeg.b65f162a1c543f13cfcb14fff44748bd.jpeg]
 

VF400 front cowl with VFR400 tail (NC24 or something?)[image: 4B9712BE-3636-409E-BAD4-7FD288B8759F.thumb.jpeg.a7c8bfd231020ced54bd5c1d4a704c34.jpeg][image: 306A84B6-FD85-4866-A97A-6AC9A7E06C1D.thumb.jpeg.6ae39927f961e6c5fdd7f57974afc2f7.jpeg][image: 58803A07-EBAE-4A50-BEC1-168A0966C027.thumb.jpeg.39527ff71982c38e036ece32f0e39223.jpeg]

Standard VFR800 seat with VFR400 rear cowl just for silhouette. [image: 77A1D1F1-B975-4D25-B0AD-197DF1112B44.thumb.jpeg.45983867b8ce8be30bc923de1cfffa05.jpeg][image: 82862C4B-67DE-4C4B-BCA3-DB59427FAE55.thumb.jpeg.86f3e0729d1d75fb3c49c3e5f76ff96a.jpeg][image: 27CB682E-3615-44A8-B086-0A5F92B0D411.thumb.jpeg.b30b7343e2d1062b0fb43dce20362664.jpeg]

Suzuki GS550 tail (I liked the ducktail little wings!)

[image: 7892B1F1-9218-4E26-8358-1922D2044622.thumb.jpeg.57419eb57d8a9a6e3149d8855857d6fb.jpeg][image: D490402C-FB05-4F81-9DDD-AA75D58F3B72.thumb.jpeg.683230368e7de42ad4b0685e89512878.jpeg][image: 3348B714-E386-4A73-B5CD-66B0D3C9E093.thumb.jpeg.4aef761390251ede7b45235c5e3cdd34.jpeg]

CBR600 2016 seat (not sure it works with the classic styling of the other bits but it’s SO light!)

[image: 9D46421B-BA70-4F4D-A90A-7723CC2D8087.thumb.jpeg.8b1c1eab74a7e8780fb48d4379f8459c.jpeg][image: 4890C247-4780-4134-A54F-A4CAF0BB8C99.thumb.jpeg.8647c3bcf2c2ee3f34c3f474da40ed47.jpeg][image: E35EBF0A-410D-4875-A16C-3557A3130199.thumb.jpeg.487f5c02923847d82218efd2ceec3998.jpeg]

A cafe racer hump I had on the shelf just for giggles and ideas. Maybe a bigger one would work but I think it needs to be a boxy tail from the 80’s instead of a hump from the 60’s...
 

[image: 7F5EBD7C-DC55-4D60-8AF4-8AEB802BE8EC.thumb.jpeg.db105aa4c82bf97dc9b5e2a8df425a4b.jpeg][image: A4558A6C-4CC3-4608-B50E-0DEB10101203.thumb.jpeg.8c19200d33bbd597de5b7b768f7aeb4a.jpeg][image: 8EA5C9A8-6D9C-4BBA-B249-D3A76B25A93F.thumb.jpeg.1b173a72b7b9cb96cab0b1f4fc60aded.jpeg]

Now the VFR800 standard seat on its own. Imagine a tail fairing that made up the pillion seat section and ended where the seat does. That’s a good 5 inches shorter than the original fairing and quite slim. I think it looks good (ignore the 5th gen side fairing for now).[image: 901BE86F-73F3-4D7B-B983-309B6F1B08DE.thumb.jpeg.a0c303ac79df4bf8f4f8501f9ec7973e.jpeg]

Trying out a half-naked look with headlight fairing and chin spoiler (I think it’s off a half-naked VF400). No side fairings. 

[image: 0D1D44FE-4155-4F2D-95CB-D51B7ED246DD.thumb.jpeg.71df2cd9ba029b419216429467bb6108.jpeg]
 

Got an SP1 race tail to try tomorrow but it’s HUGE and might spoil the look. Will post pic ASAP. 
 

I’m desperate to try an NSR250 (MC21) and NC35 (VFR400) Seat but can’t keep buying fairings as money’s tight and I’ve got a whole bunch already. Also, a VF1000 or VF750 seat might be nice to try. If anyone in the Midlands (England) has any I could borrow that would really help. 
 

Let me know what you think! 
 

Stray

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If you squint the last 2 look the most natural (least unnatural?). I think the newer tank throws off the vibe a bit, but clever use of paint could offset that. I get what you are trying to do as I've gone down a similar rabbit hole before with my RZ350. Remember, 'Those who dance are considered insane by those who cannot hear the music'. I can't name the tune, but I can hear it. 😉 FWIW I'm almost done installing an SP2 tail on mine, stay tuned.

Thanks for your input, Dangeruss! 
 

It’s good to know you’re in this rabbit hole with me. Can’t wait to see yours with the SP2 tail. Please post ASAP! 

Will do, SP1 subframe is modified and on the bike and I'm picking the plastics up from a friend who's painting the trunk lid to match the tail this weekend. I'm really happy with the way it turned out, main tasks remaining are to make a flat under tray and battery box.

I like stock best...lut of those. But, the middle naked looks best to me. I'm a lover of that style overall. FJ1200. VTR250. GS700ES. 

8 hours ago, bmart

I like stock best...lut of those. But, the middle naked looks best to me. I'm a lover of that style overall. FJ1200. VTR250. GS700ES. 

Thanks bmart! 
 

Do you mean the half-naked without the lower fairings? The one with a chin spoiler? 
 

Love the FJ, by the way. One of the greatest bikes ever made. Really solid air cooled engines! 

Pics of the SP1 race tail as promised. 
 

Got the rear wheel and front fairings off so it’s hard to picture. Will need some trimming at the tank. 
 

Not really the period look but not bad. 
 

Any good? Compared to the previous ones? 

[image: 0D1D44FE-4155-4F2D-95CB-D51B7ED246DD.thumb.jpeg.71df2cd9ba029b419216429467bb6108.jpeg]

[image: Suzuki%20GS700ES%20.jpg]

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Nice project, I have to get back on mine soon! ( It looks like I am coming up on 1 year of no activity 😨 )

I like the last two with the rear VFR400 Rothmans fairing, and the old school fairing up front.

Maybe could find a nice LED front rectangle light to fit, you will have a retro-modern bike! LED's are super light, as they have plastic housings.

I will be watching this thread, and looking forward to your final creation! 

Minor bit of progress, but an important step made this weekend: got rear brake bracket welded for 848 wheel/caliper conversion. 
 

The 848 brake torque arm is a cast & forged aluminium piece fixed with a 12mm lug in the swingarm. The 5th gen equivalent uses a bracket and a dogbone fixed with a 10mm bolt that’s about 47mm too far for the 848 bracket to reach (depending on how the eccentric is situated). 
 

I tried making various brackets and bolts but there isn’t enough clearance. 
 

So I extended the 848 bracket with a piece from another 848 bracket. Traced it on paper and drew out the design crudely in pencil. 
 

[image: CBFE5DBB-75BB-432D-ABD8-F2BA1D40ED13.thumb.jpeg.049dcc7e1a40e8bbecc334d699a0d93d.jpeg][image: 68EA93D0-E4AD-48F5-B75F-D3A25F7AD828.thumb.jpeg.db34de710de82ac1c20b1ecbca1307b4.jpeg]
 

Then cut out the piece to add as a stencil and traced it on the donor part. After that, a tiresome couple hours of cutting, grinding, filing and shaping to make it match the profile of the other part for welding. It’s a thin piece of aluminium with lots of complex angles so had to make sure the welding gap was minimal. 
 

[image: 0E62D96B-E219-4CA5-B814-C2E0747DC373.thumb.jpeg.1ecd2e8d80f1a86abee584b96490e439.jpeg]
 

Then bevel the edges and get welding. Came out quite nice in the end with minimal distortion. Hope you like my plait welds! 
 

[image: 0BB754D2-FEAC-4288-9735-14360399E9EB.thumb.jpeg.d89c7ca48457e3b9565dec2029435706.jpeg][image: 898A916A-7D96-4E0C-B091-3382AC8F215B.thumb.jpeg.c8f1385c8b010575437e589359fb1e09.jpeg]

Not the prettiest job but it’ll hold. Maybe some paint to smarten it up...

Few notes: the internet is so full of sh1t and misinformation it gets me every time. Every source I’ve read (including dedicated welding sites) say cast aluminium wants 4043 filler rod because of its ductility to avoid stress cracking as it cools. They also say 5356 is unsuitable for cast because it’s prone to cracking and difficult to work with. They also say to never mix the two rod types: if you apply one and then decide to apply another the first should be completely ground off first. 
 

Well, that’s all horse sh1t. 
 

I started with 4043 and it cracked before my eyes. So I tried the 5356 over the cracks and that went on a dream. So I went over the whole thing again with 5356 (no grinding) and used the side-to-side method to cover more area and deposit more rod volume. That’s why it looks like a plait. 
 

In short, it was EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what the welding forums were saying. So don’t believe what you read on the internet. Don’t even believe me! Get proper professional opinions and make up your own mind. 

Another minor bit of progress - initial trial fit of NSR 250 MC21 tail fairing (Chinese plastics) and cut down 5th gen seat. Still needs a great deal of sculpting for both seat and fairing, but it’s a cautious start. 

Now just need to settle on the rear fairing angle and build a subframe. Which one do you prefer? 
 

Slightly upward pointing tail: 

[image: 72CEDF47-0159-47AD-9190-763FCF824793.thumb.jpeg.ef31fa3c174eaeef946e528683c651a8.jpeg]

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Or slightly lower pointing tail: 

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The MC21 is a much smaller/narrower machine than a 5th gen and the tank is narrower too. The MC21 fairing sculpts inwards at the front and fouls against the 5th gen frame, making it impossible to line things up properly. 
 

So I cut the offending pieces off and straightened them with a heat gun, some old angle iron and a clamp. You can see where I cut them off in the previous picture; there’s a gaping hole just where the fairing meets the main frame. 
 

Below you can see the grey plastic piece sandwiched between two black angle iron pieces and a blue Irwin clamp. By the way, these Irwin clamps are amongst the most useful tools I’ve ever bought! 
 

[image: BBC103A3-C38C-4E43-9445-FCE0D96B79EF.thumb.jpeg.7f06cc3bc89437427efe96c8be7da831.jpeg]
 

Came out straight enough with minor ripples that will sand out. Can’t tell it was ever “sculpted” in the photo. 
 

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The idea is to glue them back on (solvent welding) but if I was doing this again I’d just have bent them on the fairing without cutting them out. 

Now can somebody please tell me why the MC21 has a NACA duct on the rear fairing cover? What purpose does that serve other than to let rain water in? 
 

And one more thing: why does the 5th gen have a sculpted crease on the tank (where the seat meets the tank) and no fairing to go there? It seems like they initially planned to extend the rear fairing and cover that hole where the rear cylinder is visible but then changed their minds. Maybe to let hot air out and stop the rear cylinders overheating?  

Nice bits ie front and rear suspension. I can not wait till the finished product. Maybe shorty muffler no mid pipe though.

If your still looking for seat ideas I've got a period RS850 seat you could try (Nottinghamshire based), that is true 80s endurance, take a look at my rs850 build page.

VFR750F3, 6/19/2022 at 3:14 PM

Nice bits ie front and rear suspension. I can not wait till the finished product. Maybe shorty muffler no mid pipe though.

Thanks mate. Can’t wait to see the finished product either but my God she’s taking her time! 
 

trooper1999, 6/20/2022 at 12:58 PM

If your still looking for seat ideas I've got a period RS850 seat you could try (Nottinghamshire based), that is true 80s endurance, take a look at my rs850 build page.

Just saw pictures of your RS850 - got to be one of the most beautiful motorcycles I’ve ever seen! 
 

Unfortunately I’m now committed to the MC21 seat and am measuring up subframe parts. But I’d still love to see your bike in the flesh. 

I’ll be racing in Mallory Park on the 8th if you fancy coming for a jaunt. The Triumph, Norton and EMRA boys will be there - should be a hoot! 
 

Free to watch if you come early enough before the racing starts. It’s an odd circuit and you can only access it by riding the wrong way round the track. So once the racing starts there’s no way in until the next break. 

Bit more progress, albeit minor. Got to measuring and designing the subframe.

For the record, the stock subframe sits under the NSR250 fairing. I’m using this as a guide/template to measure the new one before fabricating parts.
 

Was thinking about extending the seat to follow the tank crease at the knee - what do you think?
 

Also thinking of following that seat line with the fairing so it’s one clean line, parallel with the frame. This part of the 5th gen always seemed untidy to me, like they had a plan but changed it.
 

Again, what do you think?  
 

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I’ve even been thinking of covering that lower triangle on the tank (under the green pen) in the same material as the seat for continuity. 
 

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Here’s what the seat pan looks like in situ. Need to think about how I want to deal with the hole where the rider’s butt goes. Might just seal it with plastic plate. 

[image: BAAE0787-D625-4290-8A54-A57773D7668B.thumb.jpeg.cb37f508c5831c0e7f08320241da7fde.jpeg]
 

Also got me thinking more about why the NSR cowl/cover has all these holes. Turns out the two on the side (where the blue end of the pen sits) are for a passenger seat pan that slots in. Will have to weld those shut. 
[image: 5CB0A533-223D-4CB1-9577-D6E3164337E2.thumb.jpeg.e89db0767a44c039a30fd140b8e5043b.jpeg]

But what about the NACA duct on top (where the pointy end of the pen is)? What purpose could that possibly serve other than to let rain into the battery box? It’s absurd! 
 

I was working late at night and couldn’t break out the angle grinder so cut the ends of the stock subframe off by hand with a hacksaw. No joke, it took over 30 minutes (with cutting oil!) and I was sweating like a galley slave at the end! 

[image: 7A8FA277-CF98-4648-BF0E-0A0F11BEDE37.thumb.jpeg.f8901271e2fe99a932ae9f6fb3c6d35b.jpeg]
 

[image: 7122E6AB-8240-42E5-8A8D-58B634F36705.thumb.jpeg.a1f538af34d5d1ca9600779ccbb7b9e5.jpeg]

Finally, if anyone wants to do this mod the stock subframe will fit if you cut the rear corners off like I did. You don’t have to even cut the Frankenstein bolt (I did buy you don’t have to). Not a very small part of the stock subframe shows (where the yellow pen is pointing) if you kneel down low. 
 

You’d have to weld on tabs for the fairing and lights but that’s easy on steel. 
 

Interestingly, the NSR fairing mounts are a hot mess. If you look at a stock NSR MC21 subframe you’ll see what I mean. I’ll have to recreate that hot mess of welded tabs to make this work...wish me luck! 

I'm almost thinking making the seat smaller to match where you clearanced the cowl at the front.  Ending where the lower triangular portion of the tank starts.

I'm liking it in the direction you're going too, don't get me wrong.  But I think the seat will tuck in better without extending the where the crease ends.

1 hour ago, Stray

Again, what do you think?  

I think that you must be retired! I barely have time to get fuel...

Stray, 6/22/2022 at 8:48 PM

Thanks mate. Can’t wait to see the finished product either but my God she’s taking her time! 
 

Just saw pictures of your RS850 - got to be one of the most beautiful motorcycles I’ve ever seen! 
 

Unfortunately I’m now committed to the MC21 seat and am measuring up subframe parts. But I’d still love to see your bike in the flesh. 

I’ll be racing in Mallory Park on the 8th if you fancy coming for a jaunt. The Triumph, Norton and EMRA boys will be there - should be a hoot! 
 

Free to watch if you come early enough before the racing starts. It’s an odd circuit and you can only access it by riding the wrong way round the track. So once the racing starts there’s no way in until the next break. 

Hi thanks for the offer of Mallory Park but I'll be busy, but I'm at a trackday at Cadwell Park on Wednesday 6th ( Moto Morini club) if your free pop along it's supposed to be a good day.

Messing about with radiator sizes today but nothing is perfect. Got my hands on some grubby ones today off a “92 VFR750 and CBR600 F3, to compare with the F4i unit in a previous post. 

Here you can see the size difference between them (from top): 

1. VFR 800 5th gen rads

2. VFR 750 1992 rad

3. CBR F4i curved rad

4. CBR F3 curved rad

[image: 53BBBC6D-648B-49B0-A33A-FB45419F8BF2.thumb.jpeg.4c8dcbc9ea11275507332cf51d3162d6.jpeg]
 

The CBR and VFR750 units are the same width, but the curved roads have an extra 2cm surface area. 
 

CBR F3 and F4i rads stacked. The F4i has 3 more rows in height. 
 

[image: 6168867C-EDF1-4F13-8673-C0B897AE8660.thumb.jpeg.fdf62a0ea2bbc345eb21e43dfd743c90.jpeg]

VFR750 rad stacked on top shows it’s 3 rows shorter than the F3, and 6 rows shorter than the F4i. 

[image: ED01B550-EDA2-4078-8470-5DC857286A4A.thumb.jpeg.99d936a623a6776fa8b8fe66fb28fd65.jpeg]

Curved F3 rad tried on for size. Width is fine but the very bottom might make contact if forks are fully compressed. I could easily remove the lower row but would prefer a cleaner solution. Hose coupling on left is turned downwards, whereas I’d prefer it facing backwards. 
 

Advantage of the curve is there’s more room for a possible fan on the left (as you sit on the bike) because the cylinder head isn’t central and there’s a bit more room there. But would have to be a very small fan! 

[image: 105643DB-32FD-473A-AD34-3CE6C9514A21.thumb.jpeg.6ec37313950a848f24f8b44bf9c2c07b.jpeg]

Mounted slightly off centre as mounting eyelets get in the way. These will be ground off. 
 

[image: F2A493EF-7D0B-4175-B626-CEB974356CF1.thumb.jpeg.886f7be25f7c65ccc8fde2295f0f6d58.jpeg]

VFR750 ‘92 rad tried on for size. Significantly better clearance here with no danger of wheel contact at full compression. Advantage is filler neck and hose barbs are all in the right place and orientation. Disadvantage is almost no room for a fan and reduced cooling capacity (compared to F3 and F4i). 
 

[image: 881FABC4-B258-4CEA-ADC7-61D337408395.thumb.jpeg.75a2f50909d5a3794669a49220f82057.jpeg]

[image: D3DF81B9-3EF3-4EF8-AE16-0AB180A0BB74.thumb.jpeg.145c95d9543969d07d961cc1d3891906.jpeg]
 

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Easiest route is the 750 but I’d like the increased cooling from the CBRs. Also, I’d like to mount a fan if possible for traffic. 
 

Might have to go with a custom rad after all…

And here’s a pic of the two 5th gens side-by-side. The race bike (behind) feels light as a toy compared to the stock one (in front). Even pulling them up off the side stand it’s obvious which is lighter. 
 

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Was at Donington Park on a cruiser getting embarrassed by the superbikes.

My favourite bike there was a gorgeous VFR750 belonging to track instructor John Chambers who’s won multiple awards in the vintage motorcycle races on it.
 

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Aside from good looking this thing is FAST and he was instructing some upcoming BSB riders on it. Of course John is very talented but he was teaching some of the fastest riders in the country how to go faster on a VFR and it really tickled me! 
 

Check out his socials if you’re into that sort of thing and you’ll read all about the bike there.

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My welder friend will be machining some rearset adapters for the VFR750. 

Also came across some other lovely classic bikes being raced pretty hard - these guys are running in the intermediate group and were overtaking modern machines! 
 

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These two were raced by a very attractive young lady who’s less than 5 feet tall and seriously capable. 
 

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Nice to see old bikes being used as they were intended and not turned into dead museum pieces. 

Back in the house of pain, I got busy removing a Datatool S4 alarm system fitted by a professional (could tell by the splicing). 
 

How hard could it be? Famous last words…

Took 3 hours of removing parts, tracing wires, unraveling looms and carefully cutting to get it all off. The fitter butchered my loom real good, cutting into almost every circuit. Removing the alarm requires bridging and resoldering all the wires he originally butchered, which is a lot. 
 

Finally, the hateful thing was removed and ignition starts fine. But the mess it left has made me quite angry. Why would they need to splice the red LED light into my main fuse wire? Unnecessary damage.

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And I broke one of the main fuse plug clips trying to get it off, further damaging the loom (the two white spots near my thumb). Will have to cable tie it now.
 

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If anyone wants the alarm they can fish it out of my bin…

As I am so fond of saying, if it involves a human, it is going to be hard. Don't get me going about "experts."

4 hours ago, bmart

As I am so fond of saying, if it involves a human, it is going to be hard. Don't get me going about "experts."

The alternative definition of an expert; an 'ex' is a has-been and a '(s)pert' is a drip under pressure.  😁

Only works if you speak it, not write it. 

You're not wrong! The bug I joke about is that everyone wants to be called one, but no one wants to be one. That generation is dying out and what we're replacing it with are people who read something, then claim being an expert. I've recently defriended one of these nincompoops in real life only to find out that no one understood why it took me so long to recognize. This guy would fight for days about something he read, only to find out he ws wrong...then picks up a new topic to fight about. I thought that he wanted to learn. Instead, he wanted to know and be right. I like to give people a break, but life is too short! There's a mediocre book called The Death of Expertise that drives it home.

Did he read it on Faceberk, Twatter or done other such places? It has to be true if it's on social meeja! 

Stray, 3/7/2023 at 12:49 AM

Back in the house of pain, I got busy removing a Datatool S4 alarm system fitted by a professional (could tell by the splicing). 
 

How hard could it be? Famous last words…

Took 3 hours of removing parts, tracing wires, unraveling looms and carefully cutting to get it all off. The fitter butchered my loom real good, cutting into almost every circuit. Removing the alarm requires bridging and resoldering all the wires he originally butchered, which is a lot. 
 

Finally, the hateful thing was removed and ignition starts fine. But the mess it left has made me quite angry. Why would they need to splice the red LED light into my main fuse wire? Unnecessary damage.

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And I broke one of the main fuse plug clips trying to get it off, further damaging the loom (the two white spots near my thumb). Will have to cable tie it now.
 

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If anyone wants the alarm they can fish it out of my bin…

FYI, I think CycleTerminal.com in the USA has those red covers (new aftermarket).  Or you can grab one from another bike...

Ciao,

JZH

bmart, 3/7/2023 at 7:54 AM

You're not wrong! The bug I joke about is that everyone wants to be called one, but no one wants to be one. That generation is dying out and what we're replacing it with are people who read something, then claim being an expert. I've recently defriended one of these nincompoops in real life only to find out that no one understood why it took me so long to recognize. This guy would fight for days about something he read, only to find out he ws wrong...then picks up a new topic to fight about. I thought that he wanted to learn. Instead, he wanted to know and be right. I like to give people a break, but life is too short! There's a mediocre book called The Death of Expertise that drives it home.

I think JFK summed it up nicely, and it seems to apply more and more every day;

"We enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought"

Just an update to say I finally got to meet the man behind the legend - MOHAWK! 
 

He made the epic journey to Mallory Park race circuit and we hung out for the day along with a few mates. Going fast on motorcycles: is there a better way to waste your time/money? 
 

What a pleasure to meet the chap whose mods I’ve copied (and many others have done likewise) and who has forgotten more about VFRs than I will ever know.
 

Truly an honour! 
 

Unfortunately I wasn’t on the VFR as it had snowed that week and couldn’t get the bike MOTd (registered/roadworthy test for our non UK brethren) in time. Yes, it was bloody cold on track!!!
 

Next time on the VFR though…

One of the instructors was John Chambers with that beautiful black VFR750 (see previous post on 7 March) and he enjoyed toying with us on track. Can’t believe how that thing flies. 

Mohawk, thanks for coming along mate. It was truly an honour and a pleasure to meet you in the flesh! 

Was going to post this on one of the various “remove rear axle” threads but they’re all archives so it’s going here. 
 

The commuter 5th gen was project was coming along nicely but becoming hard to wheel froward, almost like brakes were binding. 
 

Turns out they were, but the rear hub was a bit stiff. Also could t spin it to adjust cabin no matter how much force I applied.  So I decided (reluctantly) to pull it all apart and have a look. Changes tyres and wheel bearings in the front so why not got he extra mile? 

Used a block of wood to hold the axle still and a rattle gun on the sprocket side nut. Came off OK. 
 

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Couldn’t slacken chain tension (even with pinch bolt all the way removed and a screwdriver jammed in the bearing holder split). So o removed the sprocket to get the chain off. 12mm socket on one side and the Allen wrench leaned against the swingarm on the other (to stop the axle spinning). 
 

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Sprocket and chain came off OK. 
 

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Removed brake disk circlip with needle nose pliers and everything came out easily enough.
 

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You can see the grit and filth on the hub carrier and on the hub itself. These were probably causing the hub not to spin. 

There was some alarming damage to the sprocket side of the axle bolt. Looks like rust and the plating seems worn through. Possibly from spinning in the bearing race? 
 

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Other side of the axle doesn’t look much better. 
 

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Fearing I’d need a replacement axle (cost is more than the bike!) I tried rubbing the buildup off with an abrasive brush…and it came off! Although the plating is still worn…

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Then moved onto a hard buffing wheel and it looked a bit better…

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…and then a final polish with a soft buffing wheel to look better still. 

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Quick wipe with some brake cleaner to remove buffing compound and dirt. Looks half decent, although it’s not going to bring back the lost plating. 
 

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This is the same angle as the damaged section further up this post. Looking much better. 

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Bearing inner races look decent. Have them a wipe. They turn smoothly without notching but are a bit stiff. Could be what caused the problem in the first place. Think they’ll have to come out and be regreased. 
 

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I’m starting to fall out of love with single sided swingarms…
 

Just about to launch into the same work myself, but seriously considering getting a new bearing carrier complete and refurbishing the old one for future servicing. Rear end is still good, but after rebuilding the front, I figured why not do it all. A two sided swing arm sure has its benefits.

When I did this job on my ‘95 it was a real hassle getting those 2 brgs inside the hub/adjuster piece. Hope you have better luck(think they were NLA from Honda in Canada, had to source from a brg supply in the next province over)

Well I got those sprocket side bearings out…eventually! 
 

Honda calls them one bearing but it’s actually two bearings joined together by a little plastic spacer that clips in and holds them both together to form a single bearing. 
 

Used a socket extension with a socket fitted on backwards. The back of the socket has a wider surface area than the front and is slightly sloped, so fits into the bearing inner race without damaging the seal. 
 

Ideally bearings should be driven out using the outer race by this is completely hidden by the hub, so had to use inner race. Big f’n hammer helps as you’re driving out two bearings, not one. 
 

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Luckily didn’t damage the needle roller bearing or it’s seal (wheel side) with a miss hit. 
 

The bearing halves look OK. Move smoothly and seem to have some grease inside.
 

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Not sure how “stiff” these things should be and what to repack them with? I was expecting wheel bearings to spin freely with a slap downwards, but these only move while the hand is making solid contact. They stop immediately when not being pushed. Is this normal? Could the bearings be shot and still move smoothly, or am I expecting too much? 
 

Also, I’m starting to think the axle should be dry in the sprocket side bearings. It should fit tight and make the bearings spin. We don’t want the axle spinning in the bearing inner race, no? Perhaps it should even be Loctited. Again, am I overthinking this? 
 

Tomorrow I’ll clean out the old grease and repack with some Redline CV 2 Red Molly (says it’s good for wheel bearings) unless someone tells me otherwise. Also, I’ve heard they shouldn’t be packed full of grease - too much apparently causes churning and high temperatures. Half-full is correct (apparently?). 

Arguably, you shouldn't re-use bearings you've driven out by the inner race.  All those hammer blows went through the ball bearings to the outer race.  Even if they still roll, I wouldn't trust them again.

Ciao,

JZH

Got to cleaning the bearings with some stale petrol (mixed with some used engine oil that was in the jug) and  a toothbrush. They came out looking good. Started spinning freely again which is reassuring. 
 

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All traces of old grease removed. Washed until the petrol came out 

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Needle roller bearing (wheel side) also washed clean of old grease.
 

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Then used the same tub of petrol to wash the crud off the swingarm. Cut through it beautifully! 

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Petrol is so effective I’ll be using it more in future. [image: 2BA9B8A3-146E-47B0-90D8-715247BF6103.thumb.jpeg.dc41325f7aec1d2a3cefff311b1604de.jpeg]

As Stray says we had a little meet up at Mallory, a place I have never bern to before. It was great to meet Stray he has an infectious enthusiasm for all things two wheeled. Was good to put a face to the name & meet some other folks. 
 

Here's a pic of our intrepid hero on a Cough Cough, XJR1300, sorry still taken from a video.
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He had a long car drive the next day, I said he would be driving with both hands on the bottom of the wheel going "Ooh me arms" after muscling that thing around all day. He was doing well chasing down a guy on a Duc 916/996 thingy. Luck for him there were many enforced breathers as fellow enthusiasts repeatedly swapped bikes for undergrowth or gravel traps, with many thinking race rubber with tyre warmers would cut the mustard on the cold track surface ! 
 

If anyone does go to Mallory watch out for the off road excursion that Sally Sat Nav will take you if you are unlucky like me 😂 Was interesting to see how my F-pace handled the deep water filled ruts on the badly cut up lane 😳

Was good to meet you Stray & Lee. Next time will be on 2 wheels. 
And thanks for picking up the lunch tab 👍

Now get that MoT

Decided to have a go at repacking the bearings.
 

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Used the palm cupping technique: put a blob of grease in your palm and scoop bits of it with the open end of the bearing until it’s forced into every crevice. Then rolled the bearing to coat the balls and draw grease into the unseen recesses.
[image: 3AB0A3C6-8B21-423F-9BA9-6F5EC73350F1.thumb.jpeg.8081cd4435d7283ea5350f1f18262a43.jpeg]Grease should fill about half way up as too much can cause churning and heat. 

Decided to repack the needle roller bearing (wheel side) too. 
 

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Struggled to get the grease behind the rollers, to be honest. This bearing rolled nicely before cleaning. Probably should have just scraped old grease off the top and applied a new layer, rather than wash this one with petrol.
 

Any advice on getting the grease behind the rollers? 

Also applied a light smear of copper ease onto the swingarm clamp sliding surfaces. It’s really light and you can see through it -  hoping it will stave off corrosion. 
 

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Now need to drive the repacked double ball bearing back into the hub. Wish me luck! 

2 hours ago, Mohawk

As Stray says we had a little meet up at Mallory

Very good of you to venture out so far, mate. They say you should never meet your heroes but meeting Mohawk is a highlight of the year! 
 

To get grease behind rollers heat it until fairly thin & apply with soft clean toothbrush or similar. Good luck reusing that pair of ball bearings, they’re likely damaged even if you can’t feel/detect it…

airwalk, 3/25/2023 at 4:04 PM

To get grease behind rollers heat it until fairly thin & apply with soft clean toothbrush or similar. Good luck reusing that pair of ball bearings, they’re likely damaged even if you can’t feel/detect it…

Very good hint mate, thank you. 
 

Unfortunately I’ve plugged if full of Red Line fully synthetic grease with the highest temperature rating known to man and famous for staying put at all temperatures. It’s not going anywhere! 

Folks, I must apologise for confusing things by working on two 5th hens in this thread. Must be hard to follow. 
 

Last few posts have been about my bone stock scabby old winter donkey. She even has the PAIR system and stock exhaust, so no mods other than the open airbox. This one will eat a steady diet of road salt and abuse. The next few posts are about this same donkey, after which I’ll get back to the race bike. 
 

So I balanced the throttle bodies (thanks to the guide on here)…

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…and drilled the fairings for R&G crash bungs using the dent in the duct tape technique…

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…and using the spacer as a stencil to scribe a hole the correct size…[image: IMG_4366.thumb.jpeg.882aca2c7693837f7b6407c94ead6da7.jpeg]

…for a perfect fit. 
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Now she can lie down without too much worry. 

Now back to the rear hub. I decided to stop being frugal and just buy new bearings. Not cheap but at least I now have peace of mind that they won’t let me down. In the end I’ve conceded the advice given by airwalk and JZH not to reuse bearings that were pounded out by the inner race. Thanks for keeping me honest, chaps! 
 

Had to buy Honda OEM in the end as even specialist bearing suppliers couldn’t get hold of these. Bought a set from an eBay seller and they had to be returned as they were generic and didn’t have seals in the right places. 

See the generic IKO (front) compared to OEM (rear). OEM has a seal that’s missing from the IKO. 
 

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Now with seal removed to show the groove in which it locates. The IKO cannot accommodate a seal of any sort so water ingress could ruin the bearing. Even with bearing and its codes in hand, I couldn’t get one of these at a specialist supplier. Honda had them made especially for this application. 
 

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Hammer and sockets used to push bearing into one end…[image: IMG_4145.thumb.jpeg.d481459f9ae6fcc1315738d2367ec18e.jpeg]

…whilst vice is used to push other bearings into the other end. 
 

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Chose to seal the swingarm opening to stop water getting to the adjuster through the tunnel (swingarm is open near the front, where the shock mounts). Used a thin piece of PET plastic from a Pepsi Max bottle (other soft drinks are available but Max is the best). 
 

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Lined the opening with sealer (the adjuster races are smeared with copper ease)…

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…and clamped it in place overnight. 
 

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Bit more copper ease on the hub and she slipped in beautifully. 

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Also changed sprocket carrier bearing. This one is also expensive and hard to source but I did find a heavy duty equivalent at the specialist supplier. 
 

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Pushed out the old one with a socket mounted in reverse from the inside…
 

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…and drove in the new one with that same socket on its face. 
 

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Sprocket looked good so I cleaned and flipped it. Easy peasy. 

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Redline synthetic CV grease for the splines…
 

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…and new seals/o rings throughout. 

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Now all back together and ready to take the wheels with new Michelin Pilot Road 5 tyres (can’t wait to scrub them in!). 
 

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Then I got to bleeding the CBS. What a colossal pain in the ass that job was! 
 

I won’t lie, it took 3 days of pumping and clamping and leaving it all engaged overnight to get rid of the bubbles. Brakes are now good, although there’s very little travel on the front lever before it stops. 
 

Out with the old disgusting fluid…

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…and in with a Castrol SRF across what felt like 100 bleed points. 
 

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Finally got it all done! 

Stumbled across some crusty old VTR 1000 F forks (right way up model along with 9.0 linear springs and thought I’d try fit the VTR internals into the VFR forks. 
 

VTR forks needed medieval levels of blowtorch to separate. See how the bushings are chewed up from all the slide hammering! 
 

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Bike hoisted up and old forks out. 
 

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VFR fork stanchion (left) is 6mm shorter than VRY (right). This surprised me as I thought the VTR would be shorter. 

[image: IMG_4585.thumb.jpeg.7f80f70eb4ccfe612fae3c7260497215.jpeg]
 

All other bits are virtually interchangeable as they’re both 31mm units from Showa, and from the same era.  

VFR cartridge (left) is 6mm shorter than the VTR cartridge (right). Note VFR has a longer spring. 
 

[image: IMG_4586.thumb.jpeg.562f22c549c88e3b18b8fd266312c88b.jpeg]
 

[image: IMG_4587.thumb.jpeg.b19135ae9cf35384a6222de8416b5552.jpeg]

Cleaned up rusty putting in VFR fork with cola (Pepsi Max) and tinfoil. PO had sanded them badly at some point. 
 

[image: IMG_4588.thumb.jpeg.fcdf9852456c87c180aa19631f1ad717.jpeg]

Came out reasonably well. 
 

[image: IMG_4589.thumb.jpeg.246077ea6bcf5324a99a8422e8343afc.jpeg]

Next stage was a bit of polishing with a buffing wheel. 
 

[image: IMG_4590.thumb.jpeg.ad20935c8b20ab458ac05e2fa4564e14.jpeg]

Filled the worst pits with some superglue and left to cure overnight. Forms a blister over each pit. 

[image: IMG_4594.thumb.jpeg.af5af1124581da57cb474bedd64180ed.jpeg]
 

Next day cut the pits off with a blade.
 

[image: IMG_4600.thumb.jpeg.b7906d3b7ee7cc54ed80c6fe184e06bd.jpeg]

Came out decent enough but I wanted it as smooth as possible so got out the buffing wheels. 

Fist coarse cut…[image: IMG_4591.thumb.jpeg.2a05e277d50ed9479b9f80d0d9535a2a.jpeg]

…followed by fine cut…

[image: IMG_4592.thumb.jpeg.3deb0336eff4fc1354be6783290ebb22.jpeg]

And then some Autosol on a flap wheel (sorry, no photo). Came out well enough to last a couple seasons but stanchions will need replacing soon. 
 

Now for some low friction SKF seals (from a dirt bike shop) and a set of OEM bushings to bring it all together. 
 

[image: IMG_4593.thumb.jpeg.7ca3f548bb60074be7944116da19cc2f.jpeg]

Used an old plastic pipe and a hose clamp to drive in the inner bushing. 
 

[image: IMG_4603.thumb.jpeg.2d03f5bb49c85bfaada9dbbb78e6aecd.jpeg]

On the next leg I tried duct taping the old bushing onto the stanchion and driving in the new one. This worked better. 
 

[image: IMG_4606.thumb.jpeg.aeff3289da91739e38a5c1d818363bce.jpeg]

Used plastic bag to slide the new seals over the fork. This helps protect the lips from tearing. Lubed it all up and filled the gap between oil and dust seal with grease (all tips from Dave Moss - God bless YouTube!). 
 

[image: IMG_4604.thumb.jpeg.b41e31250bfc453198fb84b61ae87ff8.jpeg]

[image: IMG_4605.thumb.jpeg.8838966638dc7937e0055ac857781db1.jpeg]

Now compare the VFR cartridge (left) to VTR (right) in the fork. VTR sits about 6mm higher so spacer need to be cut down 6mm. 
 

[image: IMG_4602.thumb.jpeg.ef715bfe1476e18868c5e766347db8fb.jpeg]

[image: IMG_4608.thumb.jpeg.d560970a15534184b6963daae0a23230.jpeg]

Found a guide to improve VTR cartridge and took it all apart. Includes grinding the damper rod to a taper (it’s stepped from the factory) and drilling a relief hole above the rebound valve. If you’re doing this, search “Rogered VTR fork cartridge” for the guide. Took me 3 hours to complete. 
 

[image: IMG_4607.thumb.jpeg.c9da75663296eda35e23cbbfce37ebc8.jpeg]

Now to fill up with Motul 7.5wt fork oil and 130mm air gap, using the syringe and hose method to suck out any excess. Must pump fork and cartridge before setting oil level. 
 

[image: IMG_4609.thumb.jpeg.685b4ebfef7fd06cafc0cf370edf4baa.jpeg]
 

Then I set the fork cap distance using another online guide. The damper rod needs to be two turns out from fully seated, then fix the preload part distance with the locknut.
 

Once it’s all buttoned up, I fitted some Proline neoprene fork gaiters over the exposed part to protect from further corrosion. These guys can make to measure but I bought 41mm x 220mm off the shelf and it fits fine. 
 

[image: IMG_4610.thumb.jpeg.1c3e5ffce9118d2a0bff266abc90c76f.jpeg]

Forks all done and mounted! 
 

Now to book a track day and see what she’ll do…

Last night I spent some time setting up suspension sag, which is tough because everyone seems to give different optimum numbers. In the end, for fast road riding I settled on: 

- 39mm front with rider (30mm static)

- 27mm rear with rider (10mm static on highest shock setting) 

Bit of a compromise but best I could do with stock shock. 
 

Then took her out to Mallory Park for a shakedown! 

[image: IMG_4632.thumb.jpeg.ce41ea0288c3c60711d3da76e83a9ae4.jpeg]

[image: IMG_4624.thumb.jpeg.fbe8d08ac39e462bb0622e613bfb22b9.jpeg]

Bike was new to me and perhaps I shouldn’t have been doing a track day the very next day after building a bike, but I was really impressed with her handling. Could even tighten up my turn mid-corner! 
 

Started off gingerly feeling the bike out although we did manage to lean her some on the first session. 
 

Started scrubbing off the Michelin elephant in session 1…

[image: IMG_4619.thumb.jpeg.64efc97836714b9207f7c4b37efade29.jpeg]

…by session 7 there was very little elephant left! 
 

[image: IMG_4633.thumb.jpeg.f9fcfcdd1e7fc3ddd4a34bca27bb879d.jpeg]

In fact by the last session the VFR was unstoppable. Miles faster than my other bike and blowing away R1s and MV675s in the middle group. Couldn’t be happier. 
 

But the best thing by far: THAT NOISE at full throttle!!!

Managed to snap a few pics with interesting machines, including this one of a beautiful VFR750 1988 model that belongs to a track instructor called John Chambers. This thing is FAST!

[image: IMG_4627.thumb.jpeg.7c82dfe0ebf8bde89ff1948003c359ef.jpeg]

[image: IMG_4628.thumb.jpeg.b901223442056755d3a8cac7b6f2c08e.jpeg]

Also interesting to see the old V4 parked alongside the new V4. I lusted after that Aprilia…

[image: IMG_4623.thumb.jpeg.bdcc1fed0c48ecda9a8ef6f927175b70.jpeg]

On the way back there was a bike night with band (Wolfskin) in the sun-drenched beer garden. Bikes, burgers, beer and rock & roll. What a way to end the day!
 

[image: IMG_4634.thumb.jpeg.0ec4e9de4d57eee8a121a1158a4d93bd.jpeg] 
 

[image: IMG_4635.thumb.jpeg.828ece69975107e9b7c196a6a48ad48f.jpeg]
 

One interesting observation: 

I was advised to run 31psi front and  26psi in the rear (cold; 33 and 28 warm), which really helped the bike feel planted. In fact I ride it back from the track this way (forgot to revert before leaving) and I really like how it felt on the road. 
 

So is the whole 36 front and rear thing just a myth? I’m a heavy rider (around 100kg in gear) and the comparatively low psi felt great. Any thoughts? 

Could use some advice on a few things: 

1. The bike shudders at the end of a long hard braking straight. Not at the start, just at the end. I overcame this by releasing and re-applying the brakes. Any idea why this is? How can I fix it? 
 

2. The combined brakes make the rear chirp and skip when braking hard (I THINK it’s the rear - hard to tell when hanging on for dear life). Sometimes the rear fishtails a bit as weight transfers forward. Does anyone have experience with CBS in track/race conditions? Anything I can do to stop this (other than ditch CBS)? 

3. Exhaust pops and bangs on closing throttle. Is that because of the PAIR system? 
 

4. Throttle response can be a bit snatchy at low RPMs. Can this be fixed (without a power commander)? 
 

All advice warmly received. 

 

Stray

I'll start off by saying I've never expeirenced any of that with my 5th gen.  I'll offer my $.02 - YMMV.

1.  If you believe it to be the brakes, do not confine your search for answers to that.  I would go over the bike with a torque wrench, checking all components' fasteners for correct torque, from front suspension attachments, swingarm, engine mount bolts, everything including caliper mounting bolts, etc - eliminate all possibilities.  It's free.  Then get a dial indicator and check wheels for runout as well as brake rotors.  If no improvement look for worn components - steering head bearings, front wheel bearings would be top of my list. Finally, what pads are you using?  Are they glazed?  A.M. pads can be of any unknown compounds.  Complaints abound about cost re: OEM pads, but I always use them and have never had a problem.  If still an issue, it will need other diagnosis. 

2.  CBS or not, the rear can fishtail with forward weight transfer.  Generally mine has hunkered down and not lifted the rear wheel with the CBS, I've never had that happen no matter how hard the braking.  Even with CBS, both wheels can skid - I've witnessed it.  A sudden rate of brake application can unsettle any chassis.  Maybe chat with a track instructor about that or have an instructor ride your bike and give you an opinion.

3.  No opinion on that.  Mine's never done it - tho my 4th gen sure did. 

4.  I've seen very few complaints about 5th gens with that issue, particularly the early ones with no cat.  6th gens are another matter, they seemed to be tuned very lean and a PC or Rapid Bike helps them significantly.  On my 6th gen, removing the injectors and having them cleaned made a huge improvement in that.  The ECU has no way of knowing if the injectors are not flowing per specification, so provides what it thinks is the appropriate fuel amount but when the engine does not get it, performance suffers.  These bikes are now over 20 y.o., there's bound to be some varnish / fuel residue in the system.  Injector bench cleaning would be a good maintenance practice.  It is a PITA tho, b/c the throttle body must come off to do that.  On 6th gens that was revised and all that's req'd is to raise the tank and remove the airbox.  YMMV. 

Brake judder - have you spun the buttons on the discs recently?

2 hours ago, Thumbs

Brake judder - have you spun the buttons on the discs recently?

Is that a thing? Never heard of it before. 

1 hour ago, Skids

Is that a thing? Never heard of it before. 

It sure is, I put a washer either side and a bolt through them and put the drill on it for a few seconds, part of my spring time routine now 

Squirt some brake cleaner in the disc bobbins & spin them, this ensures full floating disc. Check the disc alignment & that they are centred on the wheel hub, there is a little wiggle room. Also check the calliper sliding pins work as intended. 

For the throttle on track, just set a high idle of 2-3K rpm, then you never go on to the starter valves, its always on the butterfly. 
 

The rest as advised above. 

Describe "how" you're riding it, please. 

Thumbs, 7/30/2023 at 12:28 PM

Brake judder - have you spun the buttons on the discs recently?

Mohawk, 7/30/2023 at 5:42 PM

Squirt some brake cleaner in the disc bobbins & spin them, this ensures full floating disc. Check the disc alignment & that they are centred on the wheel hub, there is a little wiggle room. Also check the calliper sliding pins work as intended. 

For the throttle on track, just set a high idle of 2-3K rpm, then you never go on to the starter valves, its always on the butterfly. 
 

The rest as advised above. 

Thanks for the suggestions, gents. How could I forget about the bobbins!
 

Used an old centrestand nut and bolt with some brake cleaner and a few of them were a bit gristly. Well worth doing!
 

[image: IMG_4637.thumb.jpeg.f6491d481afc229d6b455278c8985c12.jpeg]

[image: IMG_4638.thumb.jpeg.ad294654f783f108507ba7d3baa6aeb8.jpeg]

Discs spin true and I can’t see any runout. No lip on them either. Pads are OEM Honda with 90% life left. Sliding pins were polished and greased just before going on track. 
 

Also checked headstock bearings and that’s spot on: handlebars fall to either side under their own weight with a nudge. Yoke/triple clamp bolts also properly torqued.
 

This judder thing has me beat. It only happens at the end of a long, hard, emergency brake. If it was brake related it would happen from the start of the braking session, no? 
 

Good tip on setting a high idle for track - nice one mate. I’ll definitely do that next time! 

bmart, 7/31/2023 at 1:37 PM

Describe "how" you're riding it, please. 

Bmart, this thing was being flogged HARD at Mallory Park race circuit. To give an idea, I was coming out of Gerard’s bend doing around 110-115 MPH (indicated) and accelerating towards Edwina’s after. No idea how fast as eyes glued to chicane thereafter. Braking hard on a downhill for the chicane make it rumble, just before turn in.
 

After Edwina’s there’s a nice curvy back section where you can get up to triple digits again, followed by some really hard braking for the 1st gear hairpin. Here she shakes real hard at the end of the breaking section, just before turn in. Quite unnerving. Had to release the brakes and reapply.
 

Knuckles white, butt clenched and eyes open wide…HA HA HA! 
 

I’m a very smooth rider and apply brakes, throttle or lean progressively. No sudden twitches or ham-fisted brutality. I’d be surprised if the judder was down to rider input. Tyres look shredded just like they should after a track day. No odd wear markings or discolouration that I can discern. 

Despite my intentions to mistreat this machine as a winter donkey, I’m really enjoying her. 
 

Looking to start spending on a pair of pillion grips, seat cowl and maybe a new front fender as the old one is quite battered/cracked. Thinking about a new shock too. 
 

This wasn’t supposed to happen…

Now back to the 5th gen race bike project: making a plug to fill the mechanical water pump hole in preparation for an electric water pump. 
 

I had an old water pump in the parts bin and decided to use its stem as the body of the plug. It’s made from cast aluminium and has the correct taper/step for the hole. A piece of old Ducati 848 brake torque arm leftover from the rear wheel conversion would fill the centre. This is also cast aluminium but must have been a different grade as you can see the difference throughout the fabrication process. 

You can see the water pump hole we are trying to plug in the centre of this picture, just below the clutch slave mount. 
 

[image: IMG_4541.thumb.jpeg.c5ead8e1fd022e9afa7a8ac6c9e05f61.jpeg]

This pic shows the step in the hole, and the corresponding step in the water pump stem. 
 

[image: IMG_4542.thumb.jpeg.2fd1fa749646069acd4648731003b397.jpeg]

Tickled it with a hacksaw and used a crowbar to prize it off the shaft. Now we have the rough shape of a plug. 
 

[image: IMG_4543.thumb.jpeg.e30528ec30eb41744098d4c94c9f0a82.jpeg]

Incidentally, if anyone ever wanted to remove the impeller from their mechanical water pump, you can just hammer it out. It’s an interference fit. 
 

Plug piece removed. 
 

[image: IMG_4544.thumb.jpeg.08b5c5427b657e3ab802e870175ace74.jpeg]

Coin shaped centre piece cut out from Ducati 848 rear brake caliper bracket and roughly shaped with grinder to fit tightly in the plug centre. Got some aluminium brazing rods ready to “solder” the two pieces together. What a chore that was! 
 

[image: IMG_4545.thumb.jpeg.e74cc78905c72e2ad494a2a13f950d8d.jpeg]
 

[image: IMG_4546.thumb.jpeg.1265e261678713b0ec6bb930a2956b59.jpeg]

Heating up the part, not the rod. You can see the solder along the inside edge. What o didn’t realise is this stuff leaves pores, and when it’s heated it just runs through the cracks between the parts and drips down the vice. 
 

[image: IMG_4547.thumb.jpeg.95c89298863fdb62e6d3057c46db216c.jpeg]

[image: IMG_4548.thumb.jpeg.9c367f6d725f428cff28e5265785f861.jpeg]

Looking OK and oil tight from the inside…

[image: IMG_4549.thumb.jpeg.de1f3c37d00bbca4b7039e580e30bacf.jpeg]

…but not sure about the outside. 

[image: IMG_4550.thumb.jpeg.3d34528c2580bff414f40ffc8d022e11.jpeg]

Quick tickle with a file to see if it improves and you can see it’s not good enough. 
 

[image: IMG_4573.thumb.jpeg.d1a2f2e963e028534da50a88d981dccd.jpeg]

So back to apply a little more rod…but it just dribbles through the gaps and onto the vice again. 

[image: IMG_4574.thumb.jpeg.c163cc442240ce3fd2c9ba3bb65096a4.jpeg]

So plan B: solder it facing down on a flat steel surface. 

[image: IMG_4575.thumb.jpeg.78a31eb1051b2c6503649c4c767609e4.jpeg]

Finally, it worked! Now we have a well filled plug with a flat surface to smooth. First phase is to file it flat, followed by a flap disc to smooth. Going for a domed shape. You can still discern the different grades of aluminium and the filler material. 

[image: IMG_4611.thumb.jpeg.638195e53372799a8c291b4f6e7302bd.jpeg]

Smoothing with sandpaper. 
 

[image: IMG_4612.thumb.jpeg.f1303be7736c22a7a95c0dd07f1044e4.jpeg]

Followed by hard buffing wheel. 
 

[image: IMG_4613.thumb.jpeg.ac9dbdc38661476ffc3885b7f6c169c0.jpeg]

And medium buffing wheel. 
 

[image: IMG_4614.thumb.jpeg.08ada628a454c03891d7236943eb3180.jpeg]

Final polish with Autosol and a hard cloth (denim works great). Quite pleased with the dome shape and I even like that you can still make out the soldered bits. 
 

[image: IMG_4615.thumb.jpeg.781fca331fedb24ed8ed85ab20b0d783.jpeg]
 

Plug inserted with Threebond and left to cure overnight. Made sure to wipe everything down with acetone beforehand. 
 

[image: IMG_4616.thumb.jpeg.34226b420a2c64cd5247065166ddc64d.jpeg]

Also fitted PAIR block off plates while here (no Threebond needed as internal gaskets were still solid). 
 

[image: IMG_4617.thumb.jpeg.834ad6772c5ce79925a9ded734905b7d.jpeg]

Two steps closer to completing the race bike project! 

Back to the 5th gen Donkey: how to re-key your fuel cap if the key doesn’t match the ignition. 
 

First step is remove the cap from the tank. Undo the 3 bolts pointed at by the keys and Allen wrench. That’s the foremost one and rearmost two. The others are dummies. Unlock the cap to lift it off. 

[image: IMG_4653.thumb.jpeg.4f6199bd78afc7eefd1a8b95528ce639.jpeg]

Next you need to split the locking mechanism from the cap. First you remove the metal washer under the rubber rand. Don’t worry, the rubber is really thick and strong so no need to go easy. Washer has a cutout that slides over the lock if you orient it right. Sorry - no pics but you’ll be fine. 
 

Next, remove the three screws holding the lock to the flap. These are also under the rubber and below where the washer was. You’ll need a magnetic screwdriver or you’ll hate your life! 
 

[image: IMG_4652.thumb.jpeg.e2f8047a0604d7bc59f7f7c862184f35.jpeg]

Once separated, a quick twist of the key and the barrel slides right out. This pic shows the correct key inserted and the lock pins are (almost) flush. They stick up a bit because the key is old and worn. 
 

[image: IMG_4647.thumb.jpeg.5f9435b6a2fff0d6edc9ef793477ee5e.jpeg]

Next pic shows the incorrect (ignition) key inserted. The pins are no longer flush with the cylinder so it won’t turn in the housing. This is how the lock stays closed if the wrong key is used. 

[image: IMG_4648.thumb.jpeg.c17fd933f0071ea972c5568b615ace2d.jpeg]
 

Note how much longer the top key is to the one just above (5th gen regular ignition). I suspect the flap is from a HISS model with longer key. Their blade section is similar though - simply a longer shaft for HISS. 

WARNING 1: if you pull the key out of the barrel now you may end up with pins and springs and impossibly small ball bearings flying all over the place. Put a finger over the pins if you’re swapping keys round. 

WARNING 2: the rubber rand needs to be pressed down to release the locking tangs and let you take out the key. Imagine it’s pressing against the fuel tank when you close the flap. But when the barrel is removed the locking tangs (and their springs) can shoot out all the way so you need to hold them when doing this. 
 

Pins can be pulled out individually. 
 

[image: IMG_4649.jpeg]

From this point you have 4 options for a re-key job: 

1. Pull out all the lock pins (along with the springs and tiny ball bearings. This will make the lock work with any key or a screwdriver. Don’t leave the springs and ball bearings in as they can jam it all up. Great for race bikes but not good for street

2. Get yourself a Honda rekey kit. They exist! Then pull out all the pins that don’t work and replace them with pins that stay flush with your key. Expensive and time consuming but there is a way to match pins to the serial number of keys

3. Pull out only the pins that aren’t flush and leave in the ones that are. You can also swap pins around to see if you can achieve a better fit. This works, even if you only have a few of the pins left in the barrel at the end
 

4. Lastly you can file down the keys that stick out until they are flush (provided there’s enough meat on the bones). Use light pressure as the pins are spring loaded
 

I took a combination of 3 and 4. First I swapped a few pins around to get as close as possible, then tickled it with a fine stone on the bench grinder until it was flush. You can also use a Dremel or hand file but don’t press down as the pins are spring loaded

Before: 

[image: IMG_4650.thumb.jpeg.a4c85a49170da1b5d7986427eeb88dbf.jpeg]

After: 

[image: IMG_4651.thumb.jpeg.78d948d6d543f4ff6f97b6a2966b858e.jpeg]

Clean out any swarf and lube the lock well. I used graphite lube but you can use anything good in your workshop. 
 

Reassembly is the reverse of the above. The lock tangs need to be retracted (pushed into the housing) for the barrel dowels to locate correctly. Unlock it a few times before buttoning everything up, just to be sure. 
 

All in, took me 25 minutes and I now have matching keys for the ignition and fuel flap. I’d imagine you could do the same with the seat lock but haven’t needed to so you’ll need to look into it yourselves. 
 

Have a good day! 

Damn... I wish the PO of my bike did that. He lowsided and fixed everything including replacing the tank. I'm stuck with carrying around two keys now - a minor annoyance, but still

Just now, timmoer

Damn... I wish the PO of my bike did that. He lowsided and fixed everything including replacing the tank. I'm stuck with carrying around two keys now - a minor annoyance, but still

You can also have one key cut with each number.  Only one side does anything, they just cut both so you don't have orient the key before inserting.  We did it at the Honda Dealership quite often.  We'd paint a tiny color code on the key right below the plastic with touch up paint for a quick glance legend.   

4 hours ago, timmoer

Damn... I wish the PO of my bike did that. He lowsided and fixed everything including replacing the tank. I'm stuck with carrying around two keys now - a minor annoyance, but still

Now you can re-key your tank using this guide. Takes less than 30 minutes! 
 

3 hours ago, Captain 80s

You can also have one key cut with each number.  Only one side does anything, they just cut both so you don't have orient the key before inserting.  We did it at the Honda Dealership quite often.  We'd paint a tiny color code on the key right below the plastic with touch up paint for a quick glance legend.   

This is genius mate. Never thought of that - thank you for the tip! 

Stray, 8/8/2023 at 2:05 PM

Now you can re-key your tank using this guide. Takes less than 30 minutes! 
 

Ha, I stupidly didn't read closely and thought new parts for the barrel was needed. If it's just a matter of shaving the pins flush, sounds like a good small project on a weekend. 

Weirdly enough the key for my tank is the suspected HISS version (with two grooves running along the length of the key), whereas the ignition key just has one. The HISS tank key doesn't even go into the ignition, but the ignition key does go into the tank - luckily it's not the other way round otherwise this wouldn't work!

timmoer, 8/10/2023 at 4:38 AM

Weirdly enough the key for my tank is the suspected HISS version (with two grooves running along the length of the key), whereas the ignition key just has one. The HISS tank key doesn't even go into the ignition, but the ignition key does go into the tank - luckily it's not the other way round otherwise this wouldn't work!

Mine was the same. Twenty minutes tickling the cylinder pins as per the guide above and you’ll be laughing. 

Had a bit of clutch slippage on the 5th gen  Donkey and thought I’d ring EBC to see what the craic is as because the early 5th gen has a different clutch setup from the later 5th gen (and early 6th gen). 
 

EBC told me they do different spring kits for the two models: 

- 5th gen A: CSK135 - 44.7mm long with 19.57mm diameter (7 turns)

- 5th gen B: 46.5mm long with 19.7mm diameter (7 turns)

Of course these are EBC figures but it suggests the early bikes have shorter springs than the later bikes. 
 

Have just ordered a long set for my early model, hoping for more positive engagement. Will fit new Honda friction plates and scuff the old steel plates. Also will give the master, slave and pushrod some love whilst in there. 
 

Let’s see how we get on! 

Folks, the clutch on my bike makes a bit more noise when in neutral than when the clutch lever is pulled in. Is this normal? If not, what do I look at first?

NORMAL.

Put in your new clutch and springs, it will still be there.  It's 99.99% not a "problem".

14 hours ago, Captain 80s

NORMAL.

Put in your new clutch and springs, it will still be there.  It's 99.99% not a "problem".

Thanks Captain - really appreciate the reply! 

Captain’s reply above notwithstanding, noticed today with the clutch engaged (lever pulled in), the bike is quieter and smoother. When I let the clutch out (in neutral) it gets slightly rattlier. 
 

Do you think I need to change the clutch bearing too? Or something else? 
 

If I’m doing clutch plates and springs, what else should I do whilst in there? 
 

Bike has 27,500 miles. 

Mine is the same - it's hard to describe but with clutch lever out, there's this almost "digital" type of noise that you can feel in the handlebars, some sort of medium to high frequency vibration that's causing it. 

I'm at almost 39k miles, clutch doesn't slip and I have ample clutch travel before engagement. I didn't think it's a big issue and am just going to leave it

Clutch disengaged (lever in) the clutch gear drive is still engaged but doing nothing.

Clutch engaged (lever out) in neutral, the gear drive is spinning the gearbox & the clutch lash springs bounce about to smooth the clutch on the gear. I suspect this is what you are hearing. 

Thank you gentlemen for your input. Gives some comfort and shows I should have just listened to Captain in the first place. 

Having said that, I've never noticed this on any of my other bikes (including another 5th gen a few years ago). Maybe I just missed it but does make me wonder...

Will be changing the pressure plate bearing just in case anyway as it's only about £11 ($15). Let see...

Once you know about it, you will feel/hear it on other bikes.

I own more than a dozen V4s from 10K to 60K and they ALL do it to some degree.  You can feel it come in as you let out the clutch lever.

I worked at a Honda Dealer for over 12 years and it was one of the most common questions regardless of what model, including CB/CBRs.

Quick update on the 5th gen Donkey: 

Dropped the oil after last month’s track day and to do three little jobs: 

- upgrade to VTR SP1 oil cooler (5 rows instead of 2) with slightly less corroded 5th gen tubes

- investigate why the clutch is slipping 

- possibly fit a Factory Pro shift kit

Cooler fitted with a new aluminium bracket I fabricated to move it a little more to the right (as you sit on the bike) and away from the fan. Hangs a bit skew but it seems to work so I’m calling it good. 

[image: IMG_4697.thumb.jpeg.d5bdcd3a11748d216314810b6d7ed67e.jpeg]
 

Couldn’t believe how corroded the lines on this 28k bike are. I swapped in the ones from my 70k bike because they were much better. Corroded one below. 
 

[image: IMG_4698.thumb.jpeg.5f3f46ffa34809376781f94cd7a12f6c.jpeg]
 

Then I decided to put a Samarium magnet on the sump plug to catch any swarf in the oil. Stupid - should have just bought one. But I did it anyway…

It’s a 6mm magnet so I drilled a 6mm hole with no wiggle room. The magnet will attract strongly to the recess in the bolt, but for extra security, it’s an interference fit. 
 

[image: IMG_4699.thumb.jpeg.f99493bbde7db7781131b8288568824d.jpeg]

Punched it in the centre but drill wandered. Never mind - the swarf doesn’t care where the magnet is. 
 

Break out the torch to heat up the bolt and expand the hole, just enough to squeeze the samarium magnet in so it hugs it tight when it cools. 

[image: IMG_4700.thumb.jpeg.7a9aa08ed9f138967f6dd879bf81b34a.jpeg]

Once the magnet is placed, a few love taps with a wooden hammer (careful, magnets are very brittle) to drive it home. 
 

[image: IMG_4701.thumb.jpeg.4c661117f4a8ca1dabcc21f1f15788c1.jpeg]

[image: IMG_4702.thumb.jpeg.d202051c36a7911c5eee1ddea9732122.jpeg]

And now the magnet snugly ensconced in the bolt - done! 

So I finally opened up the clutch cover (and broke the gasket of course), to investigate why the clutch is slipping. Swapped out the centre bearing as a blind stab at removing that squeak I hear when clutch is released. It just comes out with finger pressure - easy! 

[image: IMG_4703.thumb.jpeg.283445fdd4b18e7cf2dceb8da8f6cf1c.jpeg]

Weird because everything works out within spec. The springs are slightly down on new but in the middle of spec.
 

The fibre plates are almost up to new spec. Little glazing. 
 

[image: IMG_4705.thumb.jpeg.168678b8af01f6ac47aad7e9bcfeae3b.jpeg]

Basket doesn’t have any pronounced notches. 
 

The steel plates are very slightly glazed, but not enough to explain the monumental slip (lasts a couple seconds) at 8,000rpm. 
 

Could this be an aftermarket clutch kit, maybe? The tabs on my new plates look different to the tabs on the old ones. 
 

[image: IMG_4707.thumb.jpeg.409a280ad496d8f88518c348dc91e361.jpeg]

Friction surface on the new ones looks more mottled than the old, but that could just be lack of oil. 
 

Steels look different too. New ones are smooth and old ones have dimples. 
 

[image: IMG_4708.thumb.jpeg.ead4b23a047df588de415a1834a45659.jpeg]

Interesting aside: here are 3 x VFR 800 springs in order of firmness: 

1. Old 5th gen springs slightly worn

2. New EBC 6th gen springs slightly longer and stiffer

3. New Barnett 100lb springs for a Harley racer. Stiffest of all and slightly shorter

[image: IMG_4704.thumb.jpeg.742292ede4400263b15504c2213e2ff5.jpeg]

Going to deglaze the steel discs, install new fibre discs (although the old ones look great) and fit new EBC springs to see if they can stop the slip. 
 

What do you guys think of my discs, old and new? 
 

Typically if I have the clutch apart like that because I'm chasing a slip or verifying status of a new to me bike, it's not going back together without new fibers and springs.  I don't want to do the work over and now I have a known starting point.

I have found in the past that sometimes fibers are just "done' regardless of their thickness.  I almost always scuff the used metals a bit radially.

My new to me Hawk GT started slipping just in 4th or 5th under heavy load (38K original clutch).  I had the clutch cover off but the way the clutch is designed you have to remove the staked nut on the clutch basket to replace the disks.  I just popped in new EBC springs (which you can easily do) and it got me thru the rest of the season, but finally started slipping again.  New fibers and scuffed metals and it is now awesome.

Checking back in, really appreciate the quick guide on fuel tank re-keying. Easy peasy and with a good bit of cleaning with brake cleaner and some dry teflon lube (for my bike chain) the locking mechanism is working better than ever. Who knew pressing down on the cap would actually turn the key from unlocked to locked! Didn't do that before

[image: 20230917_120410.thumb.jpg.0b0a52a15eb108d9f04336188a387d78.jpg]

Finally got round to replacing the clutch parts in the 5th gen Donkey. 
 

Fist (and hardest) job was to remove the old gasket. Took over an hour with a blade! 
 

[image: IMG_4723.thumb.jpeg.e4b83ab59cda22a8549a357d9529a198.jpeg]

Dipped the new friction plates into the old engine oil I’d just drained in the pan. Left them for a couple days. 
 

Whilst waiting, I treated the pushrod to a 3-stage polish. Swapped it round so the pristine end was pushed back into the engine and put a dab of Redline grease on the end. 

Here’s what it started out looking like…grim corrosion on the slave cylinder end. 
[image: IMG_4724.thumb.jpeg.d172de7d6989a36bc95fc5b644137624.jpeg]

After a 1st stage polish…

[image: IMG_4726.thumb.jpeg.03d1b45b16d00115e03fa22e744c327f.jpeg]

After a 2nd stage polish. Closeup of the polished end shows scars from corrosion but couldn’t snag a fingernail on it…smooth. 
 

[image: IMG_4727.thumb.jpeg.90ff710bf361eb8ea050b9bcd79de87d.jpeg]

Now for a bit of flash and dazzle - buffed it with Tungsten Disulphide powder to make the surface slick and rust proof. Hoping it will make for smoother clutch action going forward. 
 

[image: IMG_4728.thumb.jpeg.ddd059ffc55e2f13c74e8e8fc0d02c0c.jpeg]

Had a new set of steel and friction discs on hand, but not the smaller friction plate that goes over the judder spring. The old one was within spec so I just scuffed the gloss off it with some 800, as per @BusyLittleShop advice: “Just enough to bust the glaze”. 

See how it’s glossy everywhere except where my thumb is. 

[image: IMG_4722.thumb.jpeg.5f9319c98d898a50e33cf9fe27a8a983.jpeg]

Then fitted all friction and steel discs as per manual. Followed by the slightly stiffer EBC clutch springs, progressively wound in a cross-cross pattern and torqued to spec. 

[image: IMG_4729.jpeg]

Final job was fitting the gasket, and to avoid breaking it in future I smeared a little copper slip on one face, and engine oil (from the drain pan!) on the other face. Should come off in one piece next time I open the cover. 
 

[image: IMG_4730.thumb.jpeg.d00411293b6b92df032fc965b4341c51.jpeg]

Once finished, I idled her for 5 mins to ensure there were no leaks (there were none, thank God!) and promptly took her for a 600 mile tour of Wales. 
 

What a ride. And not a hint of clutch slip either! 
 

Other than a slightly heavier clutch lever, she’s a dream to ride now. Power goes straight to the back wheel and rolling acceleration is fantastic. 
 

Big thanks to all those like @Captain 80s who kept me honest and didn’t let me cut corners. Costs a bit more but happy I did it properly in the end. 

Killer!!  Sounds like a very satisfying test ride!  Glad it worked out, but it pretty much had to.

^ Love the blue pipes above - reminds me of this beast...

Nice! I refrained from posting the same when I thought the same!

Great minds think alike...and so do ours. 

[image: britten1.jpg.1e25e5da03dfbf8a3d5caeabb7edbf9f.jpg]

Still stuck on what fairings to fit on the race bike, so thought I’d give the poor old 5th gen “Donkey” some love instead. Hoping inspiration for the racer will strike soon! 
 

Had some GSXR 750 coils on the shelf so decided to treat the “Donkey” to them. What a daft idea - took a whole day of messing about and dismantling the bike to to reach the spark plugs, especially the front pair. Many choice words were used! 
 

Big thanks to Ranger and Mohawk for pioneering this mod. Followed your thread and cut off connectors from a CBR900 loom, even matching the wire colours. 
 

Below I cut out the metal tube from an insulated crimp for a cleaner install. 
[image: IMG_5582.thumb.jpeg.e918422a3f5fb20f61705251cbd12cfa.jpeg]

Crimped with a proper tool and slipped adhesive heat shrink over each join, then another bigger tube over them both. Tried to stagger the joins by snipping the wires at different lengths so they’re not right next to each other. 
 

[image: IMG_5583.thumb.jpeg.2885cfee416816c165ec256ad14abbde.jpeg]

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Bike has done 29k miles so I thought best to replace spark plugs whilst I’m in there. Wouldn’t want to have to rip the bike apart again so threw in some NGK Iridium ones. Below you’ll see the regular NGK plug (top), the NGK Iridium XI (aftermarket, middle in blue box)) and the Laser Iridium (OEM, bottom in silver box). I believe the Laser Iridium are fitted to the 7th and 8th gen bikes as standard? 

[image: IMG_5586.thumb.jpeg.b45131b9fc688ae67a156a56d91572f6.jpeg]

Apparently the Iridium IX are good for 40-50k miles, whereas the Laser are good for 80-100k. 

Closeup of the firing electrodes on a regular vs Iridium IX plug. See how fine the iridium one is? 
 

[image: IMG_5587.thumb.jpeg.cdd053ba8f3133ccfc85d3914bf68c43.jpeg]

NGK Iridium IX going into the Donkey and Laser Iridium saved for the racer. 
 

Scratched each coil top with the cylinder it belongs to, and also marked the end of each connector with the same number. Should reduce confusion if I ever tear the bike down in future. 

[image: IMG_5588.thumb.jpeg.a236e3d23a7769743f906f7b5e2fbc93.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5589.thumb.jpeg.4023b7939290aa3a9c4f1c39f5a5c6e8.jpeg]
 

The Donkey now fires up nicely, as it did before, but at least the coil clutter is gone so bike is easier to work on. Fresh plugs also a bonus. 
 

Next up is clutch master and slave upgrade on the Donkey…

Clutch action on the Donkey was a bit heavier due to the 6th gen clutch springs installed last year. Not really a problem but thought I’d try improving comfort in traffic. 
 

In another thread we’d established the 6th gen master cylinder has a smaller piston than the 5.1 gen (1/2 inch vs 14mm) so this should give me better leverage over the slave and a softer hand action. Also fitted an Oberon 38mm slave (vs 36.5mm) which should further improve the action. 
 

First step was to rebuild the 6th gen clutch master with a Tourmax kit as it was crusty! 
 

[image: IMG_5590.thumb.jpeg.642d228e4ade456a15a5a909e593e6dc.jpeg]

Had an old braided brake line same length and banjo angle as the VFR clutch hose so decided to fit that too. Didn’t want to dismantle the bike again so tied the new line onto the old one with some wire and pulled it through. 

[image: IMG_5591.thumb.jpeg.f4b136e72c33e108503d8e11090cd641.jpeg]

The rebuild kit didn’t have a seal for the lever push rod thingie which had split, so I pulled the old piston seal off and reused that instead.

[image: IMG_5592.thumb.jpeg.ea8908ec24658d5e537179fe65d1e8ea.jpeg]
 

Piston seal is slightly bigger and actually seals better. Here it is fitted and the lever cleaned/lubed up. Luckily the 5th gen lever fits on the 6th gen unit (mine came without a lever). 

[image: IMG_5593.thumb.jpeg.c139c92c0b9f515c4e4d17fbd1472416.jpeg]

Everything fitted together and bled with fresh brake fluid. Has solid feel but lever tied back to the bar overnight just in case there are any bubbles still trapped in there. 
 

[image: IMG_5594.thumb.jpeg.4d57c06048f048a4cd883114210eaf0e.jpeg]
 

New unit looks exactly like the old one. View of the “open” airbox and ghetto phone holder (from a bicycle!) if anyone is interested. 

Iridium plugs in a 5th Gen? Oh boy!

All right folks, back to the racer front fairing ideas and I need your help! 
 

I’ve posted some pics below to get creative juices flowing but please don’t limit yourself to these. Only parameters are: 

1. Must accommodate high bars because I’m old and brittle

2. Must be functional

3. Must look fantastic (subjective, but don’t want to be laughed at!) 

Honda RS1000

[image: IMG_5602.jpeg.70715339135bc369cefe906b7f51b8a7.jpeg]

Honda RS1000 lookalike
[image: IMG_5603.thumb.jpeg.629b19f0a3d25f325fff085903d94c6b.jpeg]
 

CBR900RR with RS1000 looks [image: IMG_5600.jpeg.e3c53f5c6d4bdb1aec1ac8fced5efcf3.jpeg]

Same again but different fairing

[image: IMG_5599.jpeg.525cf35ec82d7047897845c692c12a09.jpeg]

Some sort of custom fairing for an RS1000

[image: IMG_5604.thumb.jpeg.7c66f8084df414f9091657abe8a64c25.jpeg]

CBR600RR with Ducati 900SS front fairing cut down a bit at the bottom
[image: IMG_5620.thumb.jpeg.489a369133aac5bd4b9d36466336c260.jpeg]
 

[image: IMG_5621.thumb.jpeg.36169b475442077dc9ce98eb64e96a76.jpeg]

CBR900RR early FireBlade (got an RC30ish vibe going on)

[image: IMG_5618.jpeg.1c8c73ad1e45857691b1628ee54b3349.jpeg]
[image: IMG_5619.thumb.jpeg.8dc6c2f75f92e60c0b6444676061d1ee.jpeg]

Yamaha XSR900GP

[image: IMG_5601.thumb.jpeg.aa844dfcf5ccc67f286afa37633e6817.jpeg]

Yamaha TRX800 with modified headlight

[image: IMG_5630.thumb.jpeg.21af412ab24593621c56b0f85bc074ba.jpeg]
 

BMW with what looks like a Yamaha TRX800 front fairing

[image: IMG_5631.thumb.jpeg.440212c4796ee2afd6a1312f97ffe9e5.jpeg][image: IMG_5632.thumb.jpeg.a411c41199ea6d10d0525fce9a2f5413.jpeg]

Another BMW with cool unknown fairing

[image: IMG_5614.thumb.jpeg.39e4c18d36556913e2ceeab2842dc6a1.jpeg]

Yamaha FJ1200 - integrated indicators are a bonus but doesn’t scream “sexy”[image: IMG_5626.jpeg.a71047984b0ac6bb7fb069213460f87e.jpeg]

Kawasaki GPZ900

[image: IMG_5625.thumb.jpeg.b5fcc6f8967b404c1726f5a2f40cb542.jpeg]

Kawasaki GPZ900 with added mid-fairings
[image: IMG_5624.jpeg.0dfd82acfccb3d38316ed79fa4f99b91.jpeg]

Ducati 750F1

[image: IMG_5633.jpeg.36eebd00461570c2f87d6df73a8da562.jpeg]

Suzuki XR69 

[image: IMG_5612.webp.ea19173e69661a5ab7bbe0b09005565c.webp][image: IMG_5611.jpeg.1245758aab1fd052c12759656f4c114d.jpeg]

Suzuki GSX1100 Slabside

[image: IMG_5613.thumb.jpeg.c7e6489c22b7b6f0ffe85efc343f1dce.jpeg]

Dustbin fairings. Look cool but impractical as can’t turn the front wheel to full lock and ground clearance at the front is compromised. Also death weave with crosswinds…

[image: IMG_5622.jpeg.a5dd5a5013a12304f32b85ba5a908a6d.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5623.thumb.webp.139a69099f76702d1fdb35ae78e0658b.webp]

VTR1000 Firestorm 

[image: IMG_5615.jpeg.cd66b29a49d68f764c609f8aed612de3.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5616.thumb.jpeg.d29e18f693d6f73bf7360dcd40b1a25c.jpeg]

VTR1000 Firestorm with a cool fairing

[image: IMG_5634.thumb.jpeg.69e1c4cb5e040c915cc6a343703df42e.jpeg]

VFR800 5th gen Bioblade (thanks Mohawk!)

[image: IMG_5617.thumb.jpeg.e13105fec4b9186e77e18cae54a88ad5.jpeg]

VFR800 custom fairing (looks like a Batwing cut to pieces?)

[image: IMG_5628.thumb.jpeg.ee3db691177f96a8eb1b3eb44a7c1768.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5629.thumb.jpeg.cc07e0b25af43a51d524af1497ec6a3a.jpeg]

VFR750 (2nd gen?) endurance racer

[image: IMG_5605.thumb.jpeg.6e5027fc8588a2ec91f710a38b53277e.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5638.jpeg.c0474507fefd54268b96c511160151a9.jpeg]

NR750 - body kits available that might fit but the front isn’t what I’d call handsome 

[image: IMG_5642.jpeg.eb08e15cf5b351bca53bec8d034f2092.jpeg]

NC30/35 - somebody on this site fitted NC30/35 fairings to a 4th gen so it might work. But pics are long gone so can’t really tell for sure…

[image: IMG_5643.thumb.jpeg.45d12982de50b6a3daf69aa67c03cb80.jpeg]

VF500 Endurance racer 

[image: IMG_5606.jpeg.b036d49f14a74357d408d3a4e9e72be2.jpeg]
[image: IMG_5607.thumb.jpeg.72a0825cd366396ea0319370a36ce2be.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5608.thumb.jpeg.85b8a3d8c319a5a8ff1f48cecd56168e.jpeg]

VF750

[image: IMG_5609.jpeg.db43767d869deaec23c7ab5792eec438.jpeg] 

[image: IMG_5610.jpeg.37ebcab86d6625feebefe670f2dc9557.jpeg]

VF1000 (F1?)

[image: IMG_5637.thumb.jpeg.04ba2acbae977364907b80ff35db4622.jpeg]

VF1000R with same NSR250 tail I have

[image: IMG_5639.jpeg.0671574c98a122f101b59624f2519734.jpeg]

VF1000R with custom front fairing
[image: IMG_5635.jpeg.1d7fa629818b10c4365c51e46effa1cf.jpeg]

VF1000F2 Bol d’Or with cut down tail
[image: IMG_5640.thumb.jpeg.a174db717f2d6fc8c35dcd110c14fe56.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5636.jpeg.24eec9679f9763c3472fa29ea57dca5e.jpeg]

NS400R - nice but might be too narrow for my radiator…
[image: IMG_5641.thumb.jpeg.d36ab7b8e3a7ce557a92540d683feacb.jpeg]

So what are your thoughts? 

I think the only ones that will accommodate your bars (and sit close to where they should be) are the FJ and GPZ.  The VTR1000F is worth a look too I think.

I thought you already determined the VF1000F/FII variants weren't right.

And damn, that #519 Race Bike is fucking cool!

Stray, 2/14/2022 at 10:24 AM

Have you ever seen a thing more terrifying? 
 

Took me all day to get the loom out. Bet it’ll take me a week of swearing to get it back in...

Left myself some notes on positioning with masking tape but they’re nothing close to comprehensive. 
 

God, I hate wiring! 
 

Also, the loom weighs a tonne. Got speaking to a guy who built his bike with a Motogadget Blue unit - this replaces all your wiring (except the ECU) with a tiny little gizmo that controls everything (lights, ignition, sensors etc). If it was guaranteed to work on the 5th gen I’d buy one but Motogadget can’t confirm. They did say it won’t work for HISS models though. 

[image: 58B290F6-A0C3-43CB-9B33-AE1909D46A42.jpeg]

Do u really believe a gizmo exists that can replace a copper wiring loom?

I bet your motor runs on fairy dust instead of petrol.

Captain 80s, 1/17/2024 at 4:34 PM

I think the only ones that will accommodate your bars (and sit close to where they should be) are the FJ and GPZ.  The VTR1000F is worth a look too I think.

I thought you already determined the VF1000F/FII variants weren't right.

And damn, that #519 Race Bike is fucking cool!

Thanks for sticking with me, Captain. It’s agony trying to choose and I keep going back-and-forth on all the options. Can’t make my mind up and this must be driving you crazy! 
 

Now I have your attention, and seeing you like the #519 VF500, how about this VF400 fairing (very similar to VF500 UK model), and with a VFR 1st gen tail (tail like the #1 2nd gen above but chopped down 3 inches - try to imagine the seat)? 
 

With side fairings that will need “massaging” and the vent replaced…

[image: IMG_5648.thumb.jpeg.df0efc4bb153e54ab5c74f3f3da9912b.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5649.thumb.jpeg.3f067253b0bf38a48e37a83313780910.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5650.thumb.jpeg.f9a10f56eed370dca432facb9fb602ee.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5651.thumb.jpeg.3b6f13fbd8e19c31be37fe5a5b85da3e.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5652.thumb.jpeg.b3f95fb2886a9c0ded6aff142415f20d.jpeg]
 

And again with just the 1/4 fairing (I’d have to blend this into the tank somehow)…

[image: IMG_5653.thumb.jpeg.f3d336e35cb97930adca87084deb043c.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5654.thumb.jpeg.f9958fda361a517d35dd568b8781da0c.jpeg]

I quickly threw an RC30 fairing from the loft on but radiator will need trimming to make it fit. Just for shits and giggles. But hard to picture it in place as the headlight bracket pushes the upper too high and the radiator pushes the lower too low. Side vent section would need massaging to match the frame angle better but I think there’s room for the high bars at full lock 

[image: IMG_5655.thumb.jpeg.d607507c0e0093ef807caaacffea6031.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5656.thumb.jpeg.dd1590d4fd4432ca599ddc535d4d01eb.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5657.thumb.jpeg.0715692eaa343f29b570f3f634c3ff87.jpeg]
 

Will try to post a better view of the RC30 in the next couple days when I get more time. 

4 hours ago, Gaz66

Do u really believe a gizmo exists that can replace a copper wiring loom?

I bet your motor runs on fairy dust instead of petrol.

Thanks Gaz. Yes, Motogadget Unit Blue does just that. One single wire from the battery runs headlights, indicators, ignition, dash and accessories (horn, phone charger etc). No flasher or other relays required either - it’s all in the unit, which is smaller than a box of 20 cigarettes, has a built in alarm and headlight/tail light modulator options. Only the ECU and ignition wiring remains stock. 
 

Unfortunately they can’t confirm it works on the 5th gen as it has fuel injection. It’s designed for carbed bikes.
 

Still working on the “fairy dust”. Trying to stay ahead of spiralling petrol prices…

I'm kinda diggin the VF500F2 front fairings.  Seems to "fit" decent.

I hate the fitment of white NC/RC fairing.  The angle is TERRIBLE and is what I make fun of when people try to use them on the wrong bikes.  The rear angles of the cowls need to match the angle of the frame or they look very "off". Just like the plane that the screen mounts to...   needs to be some what close the overall angle of the bike/tank.  Plus the angle of the headlights...   are we illuminating the tree tops? Those are made for below-the-triples clip ons.

THe VF400FII fairing and the 86 tail are a great match, I love it. I also agree with Captain, the twin headlight RC fairing is not right. 

I agree with the Captain and Terry; the VF fairing looks perfectly matched for the handle bar arrangement and seems to fit the lines of the chassis well. Looking forward to seeing how it all works out in the end. 👍

Captain 80s, 1/17/2024 at 4:34 PM

And damn, that #519 Race Bike is fucking cool!

Captain, is that #519 bike yours? It IS fucking cool! 
 

Thanks for your thoughts, gentlemen. Looks like I’ll be following your advice. So a 1/4 fairing up front and the RC24 tail out back. Belly pan and some bodged radiator vents TBA. Here we go…

In the meanwhile, got my hands on a badly crashed Brembo 19RCS brake master cylinder to match the Nissin radial calipers on the front. Big risk as these aren’t supposed to be rebuildable…but they can…kind of. 
 

Got a Brembo 19mm repair kit for another model and harvested the seals. The new piston, spring, spacer and plinth were all wrong.
 

[image: IMG_5664.thumb.jpeg.e132a2ca11c4586b831a36cb10131d99.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5665.thumb.jpeg.84621ef0a5b4a6f2fdbe1320237c9df3.jpeg]

Original piston and spring seemed reusable (I “stretched” the spring a bit before reinstall). I’m not sure pistons really wear out as the seals do all the work. Please correct me if wrong. Reassembled with silicone brake grease and tungsten disulphide in the pivot pin: moves nicely. 

Brake lever was badly damaged and I was going to replace it but then saw the prices: OUCH! Time to try a repair with blowtorch, an old pair of motorcycle gloves and various other tools. 

Before blowtorch: 

[image: IMG_5667.thumb.jpeg.bed1976fea700a38c3667a69472d0775.jpeg]

After blowtorch: 

[image: IMG_5668.thumb.jpeg.39e0c950474ba457a964c16cf5bd793c.jpeg]

Bleed nipple also ground down from crash. Snapped but luckily was able to remove it. New Ti one ordered. 
 

Much swearing later and it’s passable. Needs sanding and paint to finish but will work fine for now. 
 

Finished product (just needs sanding and paint on lever):

[image: IMG_5669.thumb.jpeg.3fb796b1d24834716e056185b2225342.jpeg]
 

Just to add this took about 1.5 hours of messing about. Most of that was taken up looking for little parts I’d dropped amongst the detritus on the floor. Even the little ball detent for the 18-20 adjuster (try putting that back together without swearing!). Need to clean up the floor! 

Stray, 1/28/2024 at 9:08 AM

Captain, is that #519 bike yours? It IS fucking cool!

Yep.  😉 Thanks!

So I‘ve been wrestling with the chain guard and how I can make a smooth one without all the brake line holders on top (my brake line runs through the swingarm as per the mod on this forum, so the brake line channels are an eyesore). 
 

This particular project failed but I’m including it here to: 

1. show that in real life we sometimes lose a few battles but that doesn’t mean we will lose the war

2. plastic welding Polypropylene is possible but not nearly as easy as ABS  

For the uninitiated, polypropylene is what our airbox, chain guard and speedo surrounds are made of. ABS is what our fairings are made of. If you wanted to modify your airbox this method will work. But it’s hard to make pretty so it didn’t work for this chain guard project. 
 

First thought was to cut off the top of my 5th gen chain guard and replace it with the top off another bike. Got my hands on a selection of chainguards to experiment with. Below from top-to-bottom are VFR Crossrunner, 5th/6th gen and Honda CBR1100XX Blackbird. [image: IMG_5568.thumb.jpeg.00b36c4f26aedad43ef75ede7c953756.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5567.thumb.jpeg.6bc4dd410ded0ad874a72abcd0ee84a3.jpeg]
 

Architecturally the 5th, 6th and Crossrunner parts fit the same. But the flat top off the Blackbird is too narrow and short to work as the VFR piece is a bit wider than all my other bikes (probably due to the extra strength needed for the brake hoses running along the top). 
 

Next thought was to cut the offending bits off the centre of the VFR guard and replace them with the smooth bits off the front of another VFR guard (brake hose stays are only in the middle of the VFR chainguard).
 

So bought a second VFR chainguard and got busy chopping/welding. 5th and 6th gen units are exactly the same. 

[image: IMG_5658.thumb.jpeg.10be6047694a5780354a3f5e134043fa.jpeg]
 

Here’s the trial fit after quite a lot of fine grinding: cutting out the centre piece off chainguard A and slotting in the front part from chainguard B. Has a nice and smooth profile without any brake hose stays. Just what I wanted! 

[image: IMG_5662.thumb.jpeg.f15af72a8544d1d966c5d73d206ddda3.jpeg]
 

[image: IMG_5661.jpeg]

Soldering iron used to “tack weld” the two pieces together, strong enough to let me work on them later. You can see gaps where the front piece from guard B wasn’t quite long/big enough. No problem - we can fill these gaps with offcuts later.  

[image: IMG_5670.thumb.jpeg.22d82188bc1285536a9d60c4604f2198.jpeg]

Next, get yourself a nice stainless sieve and harvest the mesh for internal support.

[image: IMG_5663.thumb.jpeg.95031e26e86cb84a9ef5def71b30cc0b.jpeg]

Used the bigger soldering gun to heat the mesh and melt it into the plastic, forming a single part when it cools. With hindsight, I should have used much smaller bits of mesh as they are a heat sink and I really had to crank up the power on the solder gun. This, in turn, warped

the plastic somewhat. 
 

[image: IMG_5671.thumb.jpeg.78aa3cfb9429ad47aee4706e2c22cfbf.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5672.thumb.jpeg.3c45bca42b0423fa4d266953c7bd2510.jpeg]

Can get really smoky so do this in a well ventilated area and don’t breathe the fumes. Helps if you keep your head below the welding point. 
 

[image: IMG_5673.thumb.jpeg.d7a55c690f5588fc5338243075d2e50c.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5674.thumb.jpeg.33183da2a84359c11a1a6cf5768261ff.jpeg]

Basically, the “welding” technique is to use strips of the parent material (cut from discarded pieces of chainguard), and melt them into the cracks with a soldering iron. A bit like welding in that you have to achieve decent penetration (not that kind of penetration!) and ensure both the filler material and the piece itself melt into each other properly. This is hard to do with Polypropylene, especially if all you have is a soldering iron pressed on the filler material. It’s also why the project failed (see further below). 

[image: IMG_5676.jpeg]

Once the main bits are “welded” together, time to cut out some pieces and fill in any gaps. The pieces will be melted from the back onto the stainless mesh, and then all cracks welded with filler. 
 

[image: IMG_5675.thumb.jpeg.bc14c268c4a6c035abd03bfdf54808c5.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5677.thumb.jpeg.768f3fa210423e5f1e95d2b554140209.jpeg]

And we end up with something like this. Looking good and ready to finish off by grinding/filing/sanding down the “welds” to create a smooth surface. 
 

[image: IMG_5678.thumb.jpeg.5cdb5319f048df2897e47030e5f43b14.jpeg]

Unfortunately, this is where it all falls down. The polypropylene didn’t melt uniformly into itself and there were granular bits in the welds. Sanding the welds down exposed these granular bits which came off in chunks, leaving ugly scars. Also, I had no idea how to grind/sand off the welds along the horizontal fold and keep them dead straight. Impossible to do by hand so I’ve abandoned the project on these grounds. 
 

Having said that, if you ever needed to repair a polypropylene part or modify your airbox, this technique works a treat. Just not really good for pretty things in this case (not by hand anyway). 
 

So I’m open to ideas for a smooth top chainguard if you have them. Otherwise I may have to bend one out of aluminium or something. 

Back to the bodywork, and based on advice from here I’d settled on the VF400/500 front with the VFR750 RC24 tail. Nice slim design with a narrow tail to match. Makes the bike look smaller/lighter/faster. This is the sexy image I had in mind: 

[image: IMG_5737.thumb.webp.6382342d7011d65dec16d3f61359426d.webp]

What I didn’t expect was a celebrity intervention that would derail my plans completely. 
 

Incensed at my lack of skill and direction, none less than the legendary Mohawk himself came to the house and chastened me with a lecture on aerodynamics, rear seat drag and aesthetics. Very sternly, loudly and in person. There was much finger pointing and violent gesticulation!
 

As if not crushed enough, his missus then lectured me on cleanliness, organisation and the efficient use of garage space. 
 

Feeling suitably chastened, I couldn’t possibly argue with any of it. 
 

Mohawk has instructed me to build this: VF1000-F2 Bol d’Or front with MC21 tail piece. 
 

[image: IMG_5736.thumb.jpeg.e6ece08279b9177c72ba39e9c9198811.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5734.thumb.jpeg.12f33fbfaa9a420e2f78973e178ecfa2.jpeg]

And if Mohawk says it must be so, then so it shall be. Who am I to refuse! 
 

It’s hard to visualise as the panels are different colours and not entirely in the right position. So here are some pics of the respective bits on other bikes for reference. 
 

VF1000-F2 front with minor modifications (Check out the saddle on the first one!): 

[image: IMG_5640.thumb.jpeg.889764135ff038f24d914ed712f737e3.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5636.jpeg.15d40a586ff2a45829dcc165a4e7ac1c.jpeg]

MC21 tail on a VF1000R: 

[image: IMG_5639.jpeg.8683baca187b08e9137958915cfab549.jpeg]

Still planning to have side fairings and a belly pan. These will be bodged up after the front fairing and seat are situated. Side vents possibly from a CBR600RR and maybe a NACA duct thrown in for fun.
 

Let’s see how we get on…

He's hilarious 😂 Fantastic write up Spiros. Was great to see you again & visit anothers secret Skunk works garage to chew the fat. Thanks again for lunch. We look forwrd to regular updates 👍

Pep says keep that work space tidy 😂👍

So here is my electric water pump installed.
[image: 1706984578499blob.thumb.jpeg.8f89fdf4d6753b3a474bf9470f584656.jpeg]

Second pic shows main coolant flow with Yellow arrows same on diagram.

[image: 1706984605064blob.thumb.jpeg.6136d0391ada1669935a2acde917e17e.jpeg]

Orange arrows show T-stat (Thermostat) circuit that allows heated coolant from head to be circulated by the water pump to the T-stat until warm enough to open the T-stat. Once T-stat opens main yellow flow takes over. 
[image: 1706984623764blob.thumb.jpeg.57f9112ba2ca855c34aac66865603ef6.jpeg]

Diagram shows location of my 25mm to 11mm (IIRC) T-piece hose joiner in the lower rad return hose to allow T-stat to be retained with the electric pump which only has an inlet & outlet for the main flow. Not a perfect solution but it works. 
 

Hope that all makes sense 👍

2 hours ago, Stray

So I’m open to ideas for a smooth top chainguard if you have them. Otherwise I may have to bend one out of aluminium or something. 

How about Skidmarx? https://skidmarx.co.uk/guards-huggers?q=Brand-Honda/Models-VFR800/products-Rear+Huggers

I have one on mine, it's a 2 piece design, they can make up the chain guard without the mounting holes if you don't want to use the fender - at least they were willing to do that 10 years ago when I got mine.

Mohawk, 2/3/2024 at 6:36 PM

So here is my electric water pump installed.

Hope that all makes sense 👍

Thanks mate. When you explained it last time I just blinked at you without understanding. This really helps immensely! 
 

By the way, this bike and I owe you a great debt, Mohawk. And there are 100’s of VFRs wearing mods you pioneered out there, alongside my own. 
 

vfrcapn, 2/3/2024 at 6:36 PM

How about Skidmarx? 

Good shout vfrcapn, and thanks for explaining the 2 part bit. Will ring them next week. 

Quick update on throttle body intake rubbers: looks like all 800 generations are the same. 
 

VFR Crossrunner 800 on the left and old hardened 5th gen on the right. Even the locating tabs for clamps and engine intake are a match. Same internal and external dimensions too. I’d assume 6th gen would be the same? 

[image: IMG_5738.thumb.jpeg.7788db7050a9ac1d6f75fb139e5091f5.jpeg]

The clamps are different though - new ones are better as they have hex head drive alongside the JIS Phillips. 

Rubber intakes are also a decent match for the engine ports. Considering they are rubber items, there’s very little protrusion so flow looks smooth. 
 

[image: IMG_5739.thumb.jpeg.a920982a04d32665a9a858bb8e4259a7.jpeg]

Finally, for anyone wondering if a front rad fits the 5th gen fairings, it does. I threw the fairings on quickly to show there’s ample room. But the vents are in the wrong place so you’d have to figure that out to keep your engine cool.

[image: IMG_5740.thumb.jpeg.8f193717816f5240beeb420697c24d39.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5741.thumb.jpeg.411c2767a10e69814ca536d56b42e68e.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5742.thumb.jpeg.713896b9911741534c36ad59c6cd5298.jpeg]
 

Looks nice with the MC21 tail. The RC24 front bit in blue isn’t necessary but you’d have to massage the front part of the MC21 seat fairing to blend with the tank. You COULD fit this on your stock subframe but you’ll have to cut the corners off the back and the fairing will leave the bottom rail exposed just above the footpegs and a bit under th seat hump. Cutting and rebelling would make a neater job.
 

Stock solo seat (cut off the pillion part) fits fine. 
 

You’ll also have to fabricate brackets for the rear light and exhaust hanger, and an undertray (original will hang below the fairing near the tank). 
 

Just in case anyone was planning to do theirs. 

If you do some searching, there is a means to revamp those rubbers make them soft as new. I used engine oil on the inside of mine the first time I had the TB's off, every time since they have been easy to do & flexible 👍

Thanks Mohawk. Silicone oil is also good. 
 

If anyone has really hard ones (behave!), I’ve personally had great success with a dunk in Salicylic Acid (AKA oil of wintergreen) and thinners at 50:50 mix. 
 

Takes between couple hours and couple days depending on how far gone they are. I’ve revived truly ancient rubber parts this way. Even badly cracked stuff. Cart racers use it on their tyres to make them grippy. Can be used on old hard shoe soles too if you’re careful. 
 

But at £20 it’s often easier to just pick up some nice condition ones off eBay. 

It's odd that the rubber part would be the same, yet Honda changed the PCN shown on the edge from MBG to MCW.  Did you measure them?  My eye says the MCW is slightly narrower.   Normally, if there is no change, Honda would continue to use the old PCN.

Ciao,

JZH

Little update as I scored a Shindengen SH847AA regulator on eBay and fitted it to the 5th gen Donkey. It will help save the stator as these regulator rectifiers don’t get too hot, and only draw the required current (as opposed to shunt types that draw all the current all the time and convert any excess to heat). 
 

If you’re looking to buy one, these are fitted to the big late model Suzuki VStrom (not the little 600’s). Anything after 2014. 
 

Bought a Furukawa crimp and plug kit to match, as well as some heat shrink and terminals to do the job right. Wiring as per this image: 

[image: IMG_5804.jpeg.0e72a068294b934537c810b994c55c33.jpeg]

First step is to wire the new plugs. I used some high-amp cable from the shelf, which was slightly too thick but OK. Proper crimper also utilised. 
 

For this mod you don’t use the charging connector anymore (black, green and red cables) and wire the regulator rectifier directly to battery instead. Just tape up the connector and forget about it. I used self amalgamating tape. 

[image: IMG_5780.thumb.jpeg.58988cbbb21eae0816b9412f25e55812.jpeg]

Then time to cut off the stator connector (3 x yellow cables) and wire it all up directly. You can see early signs of overheating and corrosion on the connector below. 
 

[image: IMG_5781.thumb.jpeg.c3b11a9397d08f327bad19025fe4b100.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5782.thumb.jpeg.1e3d500103492aa71afb916de407bc70.jpeg]
 

Couldn’t get butt crimps that would connect two different gauge cables so I used a variation of the Western Union/Linesman Splice, followed by solder, a coating of dialectic grease and heat shrink. 

[image: IMG_5784.thumb.jpeg.bfe6d772995a0bdd3835c383a381cdb9.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5785.thumb.jpeg.78192d03a228b6ab632f77085ea0a9f5.jpeg]
 

[image: IMG_5786.thumb.jpeg.d9e057bfce298ecc1eba1fc1862161f8.jpeg]

Then more heat shrink over all three cables and a third round over the top of that. Nothing like a bit of over-engineering to give peace of mind and some strain relief to the joints.  
 

[image: IMG_5787.thumb.jpeg.d1cd1a4aecc73edc9bacc3e15a11fddf.jpeg]

Once the regulator’s location was decided, I chose to make an aluminium heat sink to soak away any excess heat generated. This isn’t strictly necessary as I’ve run this setup bolted directly to the subframe in the past with no ill effects (the SH847 doesn’t generate nearly as much heat as other regulator types) but it’s comforting to over-engineer. 
 

First, trace the outline on a pice of scrap 5mm aluminium plate. 

[image: IMG_5792.thumb.jpeg.cb9095b9693377339e037a288f255903.jpeg]
 

Then get busy with the hacksaw, grinder and flap disc. Cut-and-shut job is good enough for a part that will never really be seen. 
 

[image: IMG_5794.thumb.jpeg.36c624494c0a27da349f67def0fdac17.jpeg]

Then, drill and tap some holes to mount the regulator and the plate. This took some thinking…

The m6 and little bolt below go through the INSIDE of the subframe and the bolt finishes flush with the plate so it doesn’t interfere with the regulator, which needs to lie flat against the plate.  
 

[image: IMG_5796.thumb.jpeg.e3cdecb7e96d1bd43ff0052f75152c36.jpeg]

[image: IMG_5797.thumb.jpeg.2f03a1976a1cc7993f8a4745b13e0da1.jpeg]

All three holes now complete.

[image: IMG_5798.thumb.jpeg.d0b89cd89f7d31829c7f9e284d38e772.jpeg]

The empty one goes to the top, and bolts both regulator and heat sink plate using a new hole I drilled through the subframe side plate. 
 

The muddle hole shows the small bolt that goes through the back of the subframe and holds the heatsink plate on. It’s fitted on the wrong side in the picture as you wouldn’t be able to see where it goes otherwise. 
 

The bolt near my thumb holds the bottom of the regulator onto the heatsink. Bolt had to be cut shorter in the end to stop fouling against the subframe lower tube. 
 

Below I’m pointing at the little bolt coming from the inside of the subframe to thread into the middle hole of the plate. Was a b!tch to fit, if I’m honest! 
 

[image: IMG_5799.thumb.jpeg.708e3ca5e2e469e912acd2fdfc547be2.jpeg]

All mounted up, greased and sealed, with strain relief in the cables via zip ties. 
 

[image: IMG_5800.thumb.jpeg.0e56e62cb52b4fde9cf9e9a2d39a31e5.jpeg]

All that work and barely visible with the seat off but at least the charging system is now sorted. This means the regulator won’t fry the stator, or overheat on track days (when there’s little electric draw due to headlights off and high charge rate due to high revs) or kill my

lithium Iron battery. 
 

[image: IMG_5801.thumb.jpeg.847e8752f48c341bf4801f9d4ce1376a.jpeg]

 

Now back to the race bike, I had to grind down the lip of the Ducati wheel nut socket. My socket had a chamfered edge that caused it to slip off the low-profile nut. The nut is only about 5mm wide and takes a HUGE amount of torque to fasten (almost 200nm!), so easy for the tool to slip off. 

Before with chamfered edge…
 

[image: IMG_5788.thumb.jpeg.8a0a10ec9a505172ecdada97e9c31c12.jpeg]
 

After a clash with the angle grinder…

[image: IMG_5789.thumb.jpeg.c7d184717a00c609536f14b352d13995.jpeg]

After a tickle with the flap disc…

[image: IMG_5790.thumb.jpeg.4ec4dbf73639fec52ca6eed338126e5c.jpeg]

So how do I rust-proof the polished edge? Answer: heat blueing. 
 

Heated the edge to blue/purple. One edge got away from me and went to straw yellow, but that’s OK as it’s not hot enough to change the temper of the S2 steel (you need to go to cherry red for that!). And then dunk into some diesel oil to Parkerise the surface. 

[image: IMG_5793.jpeg]

Here it is right out of the oil quench. 
 

[image: IMG_5802.thumb.jpeg.c0a4ea8e30ff280c20c6591a95569955.jpeg]
 

And again after a slick of copper grease. Lighting doesn’t show the blueing very well but it’s there, albeit dulled by the copper. 
 

[image: IMG_5803.thumb.jpeg.adc99afbe09d1429f1f2ec0570448b42.jpeg]
 

One more little win in the bag! 

RdChinoy, 12/2/2024 at 9:34 AM

Wow what a fun thread. 
Just a small tip…

Thanks for your input, RdChinoy. I had no idea the steps were useful! 
 

As far as I understood, things needed to be “matched” as close as possible. I’m certainly no expert so grateful for any tips. 
 

Is this commonly understood in tuning circles? 

Stray, 10/17/2024 at 4:37 AM

...I thought, “better chase down that throttle body air leak so my bike runs smoothly. 

...
 

Lifted the tank and thought I may as well do a few other little bits whilst I’m there…and then this happened! 
 

[image: IMG_6628.thumb.jpeg.bf4e3fa635312100935480ef56b2832f.jpeg]

So chasing an air leak turned into: 

- rebuild throttle bodies with new hoses and serviced injectors

- valve clearance adjustment

- valve covers painted

- remove last bits of PAIR system

- swap out rear shock

- refurbish and fit a set of catless 5th gen headers

- rebuild cooling system with new silicone hoses and thermostat

- one million other little things “whilst I’m in there…”

Wish I could say it was straightforward but it certainly wasn’t. Every step was a nightmare...

Ladies and gentlemen, I publicly state it with no fear:

I DO LOVE THIS MAN! ❤️

I keep following you as an apostle follows his Christ 😁

Sooo, a small update to show I repacked the exhaust and changed oil/filter. 
 

After my Donnington adventure with Mohawk I realised the high mount Black Widow is the exhaust equivalent of a g string. Looks nice but doesn’t actually add any discretion. 
 

First job is to take the muffler apart (drilling stainless rivets is a pain in the @ss!). Then, blast, paint and bake the link pipe and metal parts of the muffler, including the straps. Here they are hanging in the paint oven. The other two mufflers are for another bike…ignore these. 
 

[image: IMG_7021.thumb.jpeg.704374b399448b7650f3f9781893be31.jpeg]

Gave the carbon sleeve a scuffing and coated with HXT high temp gloss clear. Got some ugly runs and scraped them off with a razor after paint dried. 
 

[image: IMG_7040.thumb.jpeg.20f4f73258d3aeca7d1ff965c9d3c900.jpeg]

Then polished the scrapes out with some rubbing compound (G10). 
 

[image: IMG_7041.thumb.jpeg.b64cd67e624ce10287fcf2ad805c921c.jpeg]

Picked up some Accoustafill (supposed to be good stuff) and wrapped it round the inner tube, held tight with delitape. Tape will burn off as the exhaust heats up and the stuffing expands to fill voids. 

[image: IMG_7034.thumb.jpeg.10f755c1450766102de806c72d4818a8.jpeg]

New gas-tight stainless rivets too. 

[image: IMG_7035.thumb.jpeg.b7febdebe889dcd7eb1b1c0dd34c403d.jpeg]

Permatex exhaust RTV on the ends to keep it all gas-tight. 
 

[image: IMG_7042.thumb.jpeg.cacd8e56b2439f17ebb30ca01ec0b464.jpeg]
 

Looking pretty good! Only I misaligned some holes and had to drill out the rivets again…

[image: IMG_7036.thumb.jpeg.58693ca4dbbef8db61c839871b88f44d.jpeg]

Scaffold tube is useful for bending the link pipe. 
 

[image: IMG_7043.thumb.jpeg.e398e2cf8aa3dd8d7ade9faf06b561a4.jpeg]

Then all minted and buttoned up. 
 

[image: IMG_7044.thumb.jpeg.845aff99588cea435924aefc58117e7e.jpeg]

Followed by oil and filter change, ready for next season. The sump plug magnet did its job and picked up some iron “powder”, but nothing unusual. Just enough to smear my finger. 
 

thought there’d be more bits in the used oil after two track days and some missed gear changes at high RPM as I was calibrating the quickshifter, but there was nothing. 
 

[image: IMG_7045.thumb.jpeg.3771ea489f404ec2161b70ec21aa8d68.jpeg]

In fact the Motul 300V oil looked great. Still yellow and smelling of bananas! 

It seems I’ve forgotten to update about the Rapid Bike Racing fuel module fitted! 
 

Bought module from an S1000 and sent it in for a 5th gen map and harness. So excited when it finally came back! 
 

[image: IMG_6991.thumb.jpeg.7f7011c217dcfeecdfa777e31eb26f39.jpeg]

Had to disconnect the big harness plug up front left (it’s on the right fur 6th gen’s). Requires dismounting the left radiator from its perch. 
 

[image: IMG_6992.thumb.jpeg.363fb1c4f0293afb6c9abb3df62526a1.jpeg]

[image: IMG_6993.thumb.jpeg.123d47959cf55ba695ac220df1eb93bd.jpeg]

Dab of dialectic grease between the connector pins and plug the Rapid Bike wiring into it. 

[image: IMG_6994.thumb.jpeg.b0d94f31e56f3e30e9e2734b3c2eb8a2.jpeg]
 

[image: IMG_6995.thumb.jpeg.2664083503d2abaefb67d836bff12fe4.jpeg]

[image: IMG_6996.thumb.jpeg.86454df3ea999637f702492c6b261867.jpeg]

Here you can see the OEM and Rapid Bike plugs all nestled together. I ran the wiring along the inside of the frame where the OEM wiring is. 

[image: IMG_6997.thumb.jpeg.6d492e2da1a9b2b5b9e879775688ba35.jpeg]
 

Module itself under the seat, just behind the battery. Needed to devise a way to mount it that is removable for servicing. 
 

[image: IMG_6999.thumb.jpeg.2184cd42e395a942dee33a354cbe92b2.jpeg]

Solution: bungee cord passed through the battery cover holes in the undertray…
 

[image: IMG_7001.thumb.jpeg.6fae05e87ef16881519c72c03d81978f.jpeg]

Tied underneath the undertray and wrapped some soft sponge around the module to insulate from vibrations. 

[image: IMG_7002.thumb.jpeg.93c48c07a3c9e02dd252ef79ec4ff70d.jpeg]
 

Done! 
 

Got to say, it is SOOOO much smoother now, and keeps pulling to redline without dropping off. This caught me out as I rely on hearing the drop-off in power to click into the next gear, but this just kept pulling cleanly until I was bouncing off the rev limiter. Wow! 
 

The 1998 models don’t have O2 sensors so I can’t rely on Rapid Bike self-tuning. Need to get this to a dyno tuner for an old-school static tune. 
 

Any recommended tuners in the UK? Ideally who have Rapid Bike software? 

Love what you did to that exhaust! Looks really nice, should sound so too!

Curious if the rapidbike-module not only makes it smoother and ad a bit of oumph (eagerness/power) but also if the fuel-economy improves? 

You can tune the Rapid Bike unit to the AFR of your choice. I was running mine at 14.4-1 AFR @ 52mpg (UK), compared to 40mpg @ 13.2-1 AFR.

But the bike didn't like the change to E10 fuel in UK so now run 14-1 on E5 or better. For the Donington track day I set 13.5-1 on Premium 97 RON fuel, which is now mostly E5 in UK. I have the MTB wide-band unit with Bosch 4.9 sensor.  It records AFR as well as attempting to match what you tell it to use. 
 

Thunderbird, 2/2/2025 at 1:14 PM

Love what you did to that exhaust! Looks really nice, should sound so too!

Curious if the rapidbike-module not only makes it smoother and ad a bit of oumph (eagerness/power) but also if the fuel-economy improves? 

As Mohawk says, you can tune it any way you like. 
 

Mohawk’s blue 5th gen with RB (and MANY other mods) pulled away from mine cleanly at all speeds. I didn’t have a RB then. 
 

Oh, and Mohawk is a better rider than I am too! 
 

Since fitting the RB the bike has more urgency and feels smoother. Will get it tuned in the summer if I can find a decent Rapid Bike centre. 
 

NOTE 1: I had to go through Cal Sport in the UK to get a 5th gen map and harness. The main distributors no longer support the 5th gen. 

NOTE 2: I “believe” the harness for both 5th and 6th gen is the same…please do your own research to confirm, though. 

Hello All, 

It’s been some time since my last update so thought I’d pop in with a request: does anyone have an RC24 pillion seat cover they’re prepared to sell me? 
 

I’ve decided to finally pick a look and go for it, even if it’s not perfect, and the combo of choice is: 

[image: IMG_7439.thumb.jpeg.b6afdb7d6a5ea253e98906085fb5c818.jpeg]
 

[image: IMG_7447.thumb.jpeg.5711f297b2cd788e606b5228d31401a5.jpeg]

[image: IMG_7438.thumb.jpeg.2db31343062dce78cdaa7e77b1ddbc65.jpeg]

1. VF400/500 top fairing 

2. VTR1000 SP2 side fairings

3. VFR750 1984 RC24 tail (shortened) 

That’s my 5th gen pillion cover on for trial but I’d like an RC24 (1st gen?) cover so it matches the seat fairing. 
 

Anybody got one they’re prepared to sell (based in UK)? 
 

My pole of “trial” fairings is getting out of hand now so have to finish this project and get my garage back! 
 

[image: IMG_7449.thumb.jpeg.e90fb021bed12ba2b3f2bbceb83f5db4.jpeg]

In there, you’ll find: 

- Ducati 1198 (in the box)

- RC30 from Harris 

- VTR SP2

- CBR600 F2, F3, F4 and later models all jumbled up

- Early Fireblade 900 and 919

- Leon Camier’s BSB GSXR600 carbon fairings (seriously!)

- GSX1100F

- VF1000F

- Triumph 675 (3rd gen)

- VF400 with sides and belly pans

- VFR750 

- Suzuki GS650

- Honda NS400

- Honda CB250

- Yamaha XJ650

- Honda MC18

- Honda MC21

- And a whole bunch of others I can’t quite recall just now

Garage looks like a breaker’s yard - it has to stop!!!

Doesn't look too sad with the VF1000 front but it may be too big visually for the rest of the bike…

[image: IMG_7434.thumb.jpeg.b8d4bb044a3327021c6e4ca204bf7d04.jpeg]

[image: IMG_7435.thumb.jpeg.144f0305e4019e97e69182236c987d36.jpeg]

[image: IMG_7432.thumb.jpeg.6191def43ae00c46b90c9cb4539d48ff.jpeg]

Happy to have feedback and vitriol! 
 

Please, if you have a spare VFR750 1984-88 pillion cowl kicking around, get in touch. 
 

Best, 

Stray

Quick biker’s fairy tale for you guys. 
 

5th Gen had a Rapid Bike Racing but she wasn’t completely satisfied and wanted “more”. 
 

So she skipped off to the woods and found RRPM in Meriden (where classic Triumphs used to be made).
 

A nice man called Nick took the little 5th Gen into a dark cave and thrashed her mercilessly for 2.5 hours. 

She screamed LOUD!!!

You can see the puff of smoke as he lets off the throttle. She was rich when she went in…
 

…she was lean and mean when she came out. Breathless and powerful! 
 

Well, sort of. 
 

She went from 97-104BHP. That’s a 7% increase, which isn’t bad but I was hoping for more at the top. 
 

Midrange feels really creamy, though…

Dyno results for the numerically inclined: 

[image: image.thumb.jpg.81fe6140024b6e029759272df20dcaf0.jpg]

[image: image.thumb.jpg.7e9660de9e6f1c2ff8233e02ed980d49.jpg]

He has an RC45 in his stable, so I didn’t mind waiting! 
 

[image: IMG_7440.thumb.jpeg.f08cc829abace8f17caa071441893fd9.jpeg]

Mods include: 

- Black Widow exhaust silencer with catless 1998 header

- Open airbox with Pipercross filter

- Uprated clutch springs (no slipping)

And they lived happily ever after. 

41 minutes ago, Stray

Hello All, 

It’s been some time since my last update so thought I’d pop in with a request: does anyone have an RC24 pillion seat cover they’re prepared to sell me? 
 

I’ve decided to finally pick a look and go for it, even if it’s not perfect, and the combo of choice is: 

[image: IMG_7439.thumb.jpeg.b6afdb7d6a5ea253e98906085fb5c818.jpeg]
 

[image: IMG_7447.thumb.jpeg.5711f297b2cd788e606b5228d31401a5.jpeg]

[image: IMG_7438.thumb.jpeg.2db31343062dce78cdaa7e77b1ddbc65.jpeg]

1. VF400/500 top fairing 

2. VTR1000 SP2 side fairings

3. VFR750 1984 RC24 tail (shortened) 

That’s my 5th gen pillion cover on for trial but I’d like an RC24 (1st gen?) cover so it matches the seat fairing. 
 

Anybody got one they’re prepared to sell (based in UK)? 
 

My pole of “trial” fairings is getting out of hand now so have to finish this project and get my garage back! 
 

[image: IMG_7449.thumb.jpeg.e90fb021bed12ba2b3f2bbceb83f5db4.jpeg]

In there, you’ll find: 

- Ducati 1198 (in the box)

- RC30 from Harris 

- VTR SP2

- CBR600 F2, F3, F4 and later models all jumbled up

- Early Fireblade 900 and 919

- Leon Camier’s BSB GSXR600 carbon fairings (seriously!)

- GSX1100F

- VF1000F

- Triumph 675 (3rd gen)

- VF400 with sides and belly pans

- VFR750 

- Suzuki GS650

- Honda NS400

- Honda CB250

- Yamaha XJ650

- Honda MC18

- Honda MC21

- And a whole bunch of others I can’t quite recall just now

Garage looks like a breaker’s yard - it has to stop!!!

Doesn't look too sad with the VF1000 front but it may be too big visually for the rest of the bike…

[image: IMG_7434.thumb.jpeg.b8d4bb044a3327021c6e4ca204bf7d04.jpeg]

[image: IMG_7435.thumb.jpeg.144f0305e4019e97e69182236c987d36.jpeg]

[image: IMG_7432.thumb.jpeg.6191def43ae00c46b90c9cb4539d48ff.jpeg]

Happy to have feedback and vitriol! 
 

Please, if you have a spare VFR750 1984-88 pillion cowl kicking around, get in touch. 
 

Best, 

Stray

I like them both. A big part of me likes the 1000F cowl.  The larger proportions seem to work for me with the tank and tail..  Maybe trim the windshield down to reduce some overall "height". 

Anyway....   loving it!

3 hours ago, Captain 80s

I like them both. A big part of me likes the 1000F cowl.  The larger proportions seem to work for me with the tank and tail..  Maybe trim the windshield down to reduce some overall "height". 

Anyway....   loving it!

Damn it Captain, you’re always right and make me rethink! 

51 minutes ago, Stray

Damn it Captain, you’re always right and make me rethink! 

It's this view that cements it for me.  

[image: FII.jpeg.fa4e8f199d9c8aee6fc4f30394fd0fbe.jpeg]

The shape of the relief/flare for the handlebars at full lock just flows better with the other bodywork pieces and tank.  A little more organic looking. 

When final placement is done, trim the screen down a bit to compensate for the height proportions and you can even re-angle the top cut to (more) match the angle of the top of the tank.  (If that makes sense)

2 hours ago, Captain 80s

It's this view that cements it for me.  

[image: FII.jpeg.fa4e8f199d9c8aee6fc4f30394fd0fbe.jpeg]

The shape of the relief/flare for the handlebars at full lock just flows better with the other bodywork pieces and tank.  A little more organic looking. 

When final placement is done, trim the screen down a bit to compensate for the height proportions and you can even re-angle the top cut to (more) match the angle of the top of the tank.  (If that makes sense)

I hear you, Captain. I could “deepen” the groove my helmet would sit in, for example?
 

Thanks for your input! 

2 hours ago, Stray

I hear you, Captain. I could “deepen” the groove my helmet would sit in, for example?
 

Thanks for your input! 

Yeah, that's kinda what I'm driving at.  Most screens that are cut like that, the top "plane" tends to match the angle of the top of the tank.

Cheers!