OK I was stranded again today, no charging again (98 with about 36k on the clock)
Here is the list of what I have done in the last 5,000 mi.
I am running large wireing( new connectors were done at this point just because),
3RRs (1st Ricks died at a few hundred Miles,2nd one was honda upgraded made 1,800mi, 3rd that died today was Ricks "HD mosfet model" )
The stator tests good(it is a new one the old one tested fine and made good numbers but after 2 fried RRs I changed it anyway) and I get perfect charging numbers, when the new RR is installed, the wires are just noticeably warm, the connectors are still perfect no corrosion not getting brown not hardened not burnt etc.
The battery is the second one (about 3mths old Yuasa agm) charged on a yuasa charger before install as yuasas' recommendation.
Any one else found a soloution or a source for a Reliable RR
I do not have a problem re-wireing the system again I just want something that will last longer than a few thousand miles. (or a few hundred)
I'm curious to find ways of troubleshooting where the actual problem lies. Both stator and regulator went this week on my vacation. Have others had better luck after the replacement had been done?
I forgot to mention the last one is relocated, and I have clear ducted air flow to it, I am looking into the R1 option, my irretation is that the normal fixes are not working.
You know my 72 gt750 has 50k on the clock and is still running its original mech voltage regulator and selenium rectifier( only the brushes have been changed to protect the innocent)
SO MUCH FOR MODERN TECH:(
THE COOL PART IF IT IS YOU JUST SWITCH OFF THE HEAD LIGHT IF IT QUITS CHARGING AND YOU COULD GO 1,500MILES JUST RUNNING THE POINTS...not like the vfrs 5 miles and bam dead.
and hell blacktape some d cells together and you could go another few k.
just venting some times I REALLY REALLY love my vintage bikes and their lack of TECHNOLOGY!!!
I've thrown a ton of money at this problem, also. For my most recent failure, I installed a new battery, Mosfet R/R, Stator, and wiring fix about two months ago. So far, so good, but I have little trust that it won't happen again. From everything I've read about this issue, Honda never acknowledged a problem, didn't give a shite then, and they don't give a shite now. When it comes to Honda, you're on your own. They are never wrong and they never admit to anything. Good thing their bikes are reliable in every other way. Even so, I'm not sure I'd buy another one.
When you said you re-wired, and did new connectors, did you use the VFRness from member Tightwad? It has an extra ground wire, of large gauge. On my second VFR now, and had 6 r/r go on the 90, replaced the stock one on the 98 as soon as I bought it.
From my observations, it is the connectors that are the weakest link, followed by the r/r itself. If you have not tried "wiremybike.com" that would be my next suggestion. The supplementary wire harness supplied for about 50 bucks should help. I have had to bypass the connector on the ground wires, so I think I still have a fault, probably in the r/r, but it seems to be holding, for about 3k miles.
Hope you get a handle on it!
Cheers!
[image: View Post]Jmmymc750, on 08 August 2010 - 06:44 PM, said:
When you said you re-wired, and did new connectors, did you use the VFRness from member Tightwad? It has an extra ground wire, of large gauge. On my second VFR now, and had 6 r/r go on the 90, replaced the stock one on the 98 as soon as I bought it.
From my observations, it is the connectors that are the weakest link, followed by the r/r itself. If you have not tried "wiremybike.com" that would be my next suggestion. The supplementary wire harness supplied for about 50 bucks should help. I have had to bypass the connector on the ground wires, so I think I still have a fault, probably in the r/r, but it seems to be holding, for about 3k miles.
Hope you get a handle on it!
Cheers!
I had the VFRness on the bike when the connectors fried. Tightwad sent me some repair kits to splice in, and I got the new R/R and stator from him, too. I may remove the connectors and splice the wires directly to each other to eliminate that weak point.
[image: View Post]superfunkomatic, on 08 August 2010 - 03:41 PM, said:
I'm curious to find ways of troubleshooting where the actual problem lies. Both stator and regulator went this week on my vacation. Have others had better luck after the replacement had been done?
You've heard of "shunt" r/rs (VFR's type), and the replacement R1 "mosfet" type - well, apparently both of those cause too much heat, or something, that injures the stator and/or r/r, or something, one or both of which still kill the battery, so how about a NEW type of r/r? This one's called a "series" type. It costs more ($180 on Amazon) and are physically larger, but supposedly correct the issues with the other two types.
Lots of bikes running shunt r/rs have the same problems the VFR does, including Triumph and Aprilia. Here's a thread from the Aprilia forum that will give you more sources and info: http://www.apriliafo...d.php?p=2598642
I haven't tried it yet - just passing on the info.
Thanks for the info. Mine will be repaired tomorrow so hopefully I'll have no more issues on the way home.
[image: View Post]Misspent Youth, on 09 August 2010 - 09:49 AM, said:
[image: View Post]superfunkomatic, on 08 August 2010 - 03:41 PM, said:
I'm curious to find ways of troubleshooting where the actual problem lies. Both stator and regulator went this week on my vacation. Have others had better luck after the replacement had been done?
You've heard of "shunt" r/rs (VFR's type), and the replacement R1 "mosfet" type - well, apparently both of those cause too much heat, or something, that injures the stator and/or r/r, or something, one or both of which still kill the battery, so how about a NEW type of r/r? This one's called a "series" type. It costs more ($180 on Amazon) and are physically larger, but supposedly correct the issues with the other two types.
Lots of bikes running shunt r/rs have the same problems the VFR does, including Triumph and Aprilia. Here's a thread from the Aprilia forum that will give you more sources and info: http://www.apriliafo...d.php?p=2598642
I haven't tried it yet - just passing on the info.
Is there member of the brain trust who is a bonefied electrical engineer that can add some thoughts to this and possible offer an overkill solution? (i'm an ME and can barely wire a light switch circuit. :blink: ) I have a 98 and its fine for the moment but it seems its just a matter of time........
My re-wire was with 10 or 12 gauge all the way across the charging system with bullet connectors between the RR and the Stator(the rest was soldered and heat shrinked). the wire to the battery was 8 ga. I am looking into the series RR option. anything is worth a shot.
[image: View Post]trickster, on 08 August 2010 - 03:29 PM, said:
OK I was stranded again today, no charging again (98 with about 36k on the clock)
Here is the list of what I have done in the last 5,000 mi.
I am running large wireing( new connectors were done at this point just because),
3RRs (1st Ricks died at a few hundred Miles,2nd one was honda upgraded made 1,800mi, 3rd that died today was Ricks "HD mosfet model" )
The stator tests good(it is a new one the old one tested fine and made good numbers but after 2 fried RRs I changed it anyway) and I get perfect charging numbers, when the new RR is installed, the wires are just noticeably warm, the connectors are still perfect no corrosion not getting brown not hardened not burnt etc.
The battery is the second one (about 3mths old Yuasa agm) charged on a yuasa charger before install as yuasas' recommendation.
Any one else found a soloution or a source for a Reliable RR
I do not have a problem re-wireing the system again I just want something that will last longer than a few thousand miles. (or a few hundred)
This is getting very expensive very quickly
I am absolutely not an expert at this but, Honda's RR issues not withstanding, these problems are nearly always connector-based (wiring, relays, etc.). If the real issue is a battery(s) that keeps dying on you, have you done a voltage drop test on both the positive and ground sides between the battery and the RR? Also, have you checked for parasitic amp drains on the battery? This can be caused by a defective relay that is stuck on or perhaps a light staying on that should be off. First, you need to check the bike manual specs for normal amp draw and then compare that to the results of your amp drain test. To test, disconnect either battery cable at the post and place one lead from your 12 volt test light to the batt post and the other lead to the battery cable; any amp draw above 4 amps should turn the tester light on. Check both pos and neg terminals in this manner. If either terminal is reading more than your service manual's stated normal static amperage drain, you may have found the problem. If indeed the drain is higher than spec, you will next need to determine the precise amount of amp drain in order to narrow down what the possible faulty electrical component is; this step will require a series ammeter and jumper wire, in addition to the 12V test light. But first things first; test the voltage drop first, if all in spec, then go onto the parasitic amp drain testlight test. Let us know how this works out, if you choose to try it (assuming, of course, that you haven't already). Good luck.
Well I tested all the components, and thanks to a faulty voltmeter lead(ugh!!!) I sprung for a new RR, and stator.... Well after the new parts showed i checked the new stator just for good meaure, and that is when I found the faulty lead (shcissen). It turned out that the stator and the RR were ok(go figure) and i had a wire corroded in its insulation for about 6" (one of the factory wires). so I did a all hardwire soloution in 12 ga. and used 100amp gold plated locking connectors for the RR connection(I have acess at work to some killer electrical stuff).
Now for the odd part. at idle I am getting 14.5 volts and at 5k I am getting 14.6v, The idle is out of spec. but it is ok at the higher rpm so i think I will run it awhile and see. The wires are not above warm to the touch anywhere. any body else have the high voltage at idle? I am running now one of ricks new RRs, but the old one gives me the same numbers exactly.(I am carrying the old one under the seat)
so we'll see...the new RR does not heat as much as the old one did though so maybe that i a good sign(I did put the computer fan and duct back in )
Wish me luck. (I still really love my 98) even when it has puked
DOES ANYBODY READ OTHER POSTS ABOUT R/R????????? :pissed:
find your main green wire in the harness.. add eyelets and ground it to the FRAME .. front middle and back of bike.. CLEAN all your contact areas and on the wires and such..
the green wires from the R/R.. ground them straight to the frame!!
and use silver heat transfer compound from the computer store.. put a BIG glob on the back off the R/R
.. add a computer fan while your at it..only cost 10 bucks. :fing02:
the above is how you save your R/R from going bad.. write it down and stick it on the inside of your tool box lid :comp13:
[image: View Post]gll429, on 15 August 2010 - 07:24 PM, said:
find your main green wire in the harness.. add eyelets and ground it to the FRAME .. front middle and back of bike.. CLEAN all your contact areas and on the wires and such..
This is lovely, but we need a dedicated thread with complete teardown pictures. None of us has done this yet.
By "Your main green wire in the harness", I assume you mean the taped-up connector block on the main wire path just between the engine and the left-side of the frame? I recall there has only been one picture of this posted in the forums, like, ever.
I would volunteer to create the thread myself right now, but my bike's had enough fun this year. Unless it dies again, I don't think I'll put my hand up.
The best solution to this problem is to get rid of the VFR. Alot of us would be happier without it! Myself included! I am always going through electrical issues...
[image: View Post]elevation, on 16 August 2010 - 01:14 AM, said:
The best solution to this problem is to get rid of the VFR. Alot of us would be happier without it! Myself included! I am always going through electrical issues...
:dry: :blink: :computer-noworky:
WHAT are you smoking????
After nearly 60K miles, I am still on my original R/R with no issues as of yet. Here is what I did to keep it healthy.
1.Got rid of all the connectors by jumping them out or in some cases removing them altogether and replacing the connectors with soldered wires.
2. Added a metal computer fan to the top of the R/R. The metal fan pulls a bit more heat out of the heat sink.
3. Added ground connections from the battery to the R/R.
4. Spit shinned the main ground connection and applied De-Ox before tightening it back down. Then applied grease over the stud to help stop further oxidation.
5. Added a larger heat sink behind the R/R mounting bracket with multiple layers of aluminum and applied heat transfer grease to all contact points.
6. Changed the wiring as per this diagram.
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1172981311/gallery_251_270_6842.gif
[image: View Post]IntAceptor, on 16 August 2010 - 06:45 AM, said:
After nearly 60K miles, I am still on my original R/R with no issues as of yet. Here is what I did to keep it healthy.
1.Got rid of all the connectors by jumping them out or in some cases removing them altogether and replacing the connectors with soldered wires.
2. Added a metal computer fan to the top of the R/R. The metal fan pulls a bit more heat out of the heat sink.
3. Added ground connections from the battery to the R/R.
4. Spit shinned the main ground connection and applied De-Ox before tightening it back down. Then applied grease over the stud to help stop further oxidation.
5. Added a larger heat sink behind the R/R mounting bracket with multiple layers of aluminum and applied heat transfer grease to all contact points.
6. Changed the wiring as per this diagram.
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1172981311/gallery_251_270_6842.gif
Now we're getting somewhere --- got any pics of your mods?
the above is good..
but it shows the green wires from the r/r going to the battery.. YOU DONT WANT THAT!!!!! any excess juice made is sent to the ground.. ergo the frame.. and gets lost in massive heat sink that it is.
[image: View Post]mello dude, on 16 August 2010 - 08:43 PM, said:
[image: View Post]IntAceptor, on 16 August 2010 - 06:45 AM, said:
After nearly 60K miles, I am still on my original R/R with no issues as of yet. Here is what I did to keep it healthy.
1.Got rid of all the connectors by jumping them out or in some cases removing them altogether and replacing the connectors with soldered wires.
2. Added a metal computer fan to the top of the R/R. The metal fan pulls a bit more heat out of the heat sink.
3. Added ground connections from the battery to the R/R.
4. Spit shinned the main ground connection and applied De-Ox before tightening it back down. Then applied grease over the stud to help stop further oxidation.
5. Added a larger heat sink behind the R/R mounting bracket with multiple layers of aluminum and applied heat transfer grease to all contact points.
6. Changed the wiring as per this diagram.
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1172981311/gallery_251_270_6842.gif
Now we're getting somewhere --- got any pics of your mods?
No, I did it a very long time ago and any pics that were taken are now gone. If you like the concept, just follow the steps and it should work out for you. The write up for the wiring change is no longer on the net, I tried to track it down but the site must have deleted it.. I really don't know how much the wiring change helped anything. It seems to me that steps 1 -5 packed the most wallop.
[image: View Post]trickster, on 15 August 2010 - 07:12 PM, said:
Well I tested all the components, and thanks to a faulty voltmeter lead(ugh!!!) I sprung for a new RR, and stator.... Well after the new parts showed i checked the new stator just for good meaure, and that is when I found the faulty lead (shcissen). It turned out that the stator and the RR were ok(go figure) and i had a wire corroded in its insulation for about 6" (one of the factory wires). so I did a all hardwire soloution in 12 ga. and used 100amp gold plated locking connectors for the RR connection(I have acess at work to some killer electrical stuff).
Now for the odd part. at idle I am getting 14.5 volts and at 5k I am getting 14.6v, The idle is out of spec. but it is ok at the higher rpm so i think I will run it awhile and see. The wires are not above warm to the touch anywhere. any body else have the high voltage at idle? I am running now one of ricks new RRs, but the old one gives me the same numbers exactly.(I am carrying the old one under the seat)
so we'll see...the new RR does not heat as much as the old one did though so maybe that i a good sign(I did put the computer fan and duct back in )
Wish me luck. (I still really love my 98) even when it has puked
I've had problems on my '99. I replaced the r/r with the new Honda unit about 7 years ago and still had batteries going out prematurely. I initially added a large gauge (+) wire in parallel from the r/r to the battery and was good for a few years. Then the stator connector toasted itself, I spliced in large gauge wire and bullet connectors about a year ago along with another new battery (cheapo Walmart) and have been fine since then. Good luck with it, it's a pia to track down those little electrical faults but I'm sure there's a solution.
This is what I did to my 4th GEN after it died. It was over 2 years ago and I haven't had a problem since (+ 6000 miles in Albuquerque's 100 degree summers)
Installed a 5 wire R/R from a Suzuki GSXR 750. Used the one stock mounting bolt and drilled a hole in the subframe backing plate for the other. Took the paint off the plate and used the heat transfer paste between the R/R and the plate. Installed a computer fan wired into the LP light over the top of the R/R.
Beefed up the 3 yellow wires from the stator to the R/R (12 gauge?). Cut the stock ones off as close to the stator as possible and soldered and heat shrinked the connection on both ends.
Ran 10 gauge from the R/R positive direct to the battery with a heavy duty in-line 30 amp fuse holder. Soldered and heat shrinked all the connections.
There is a common ground on the 4th GENs on the right side of the frame. I chased the hole and cleaned it out as good as I could and found a metric copper plated bolt that was quite a bit longer than the stock one. (more contact with all the threads in the hole) I scuffed up the area around the hole all the other grounds came in contact with. I cleaned and put OX-Guard on every connection I could reach.
I ran an 8 gauge ground wire from the battery to the common ground on the frame. (Soldered and heat shrinked all the connections).
I carry a spare R/R same as the one on the bike and the stuff to do a road side hook-up if the one on the bike dies. It won't be quick but I think all the connectors are a part of the problem.
Between all the connectors, cheezy ground system and undersize wiring, it's a wonder more people don't have problems with the stock 'system' and I use the word loosely.
I did all this at once because if only one part gets upgraded it just overloads something else even more.
Rant over. :beer:
[image: View Post]rangemaster, on 16 August 2010 - 10:06 PM, said:
I did all this at once because if only one part gets upgraded it just overloads something else even more.
This is what I have kinda been head stratchn about. Typical like links in a chain, you strengthen the weakest links say it has 10 links and you overkill 2 to never break again, the load is now forced upon the 8 other "weaker" links. So, I've upgrade to the new OEM R/R and installed the VFRness. I'm wondering if this is the start of dominos....
(I've got time, bike is fine for now, I just want to plan the next step when its required. Hazards of geekness..... :biggrin: )
If I get rid of the bike, electrical issues will be the reason. I replaced it all at once in the spring. Purchased stator, mofset RR, VFRness and a new battery. I used spray electrical cleaner and dielectric grease on all connections. It was rock solid for about three months, then the connector between the stator and RR cooked. Is there no friggin' end to this BS.
[image: View Post]Earthshake, on 18 August 2010 - 07:58 PM, said:
If I get rid of the bike, electrical issues will be the reason. I replaced it all at once in the spring. Purchased stator, mofset RR, VFRness and a new battery. I used spray electrical cleaner and dielectric grease on all connections. It was rock solid for about three months, then the connector between the stator and RR cooked. Is there no friggin' end to this BS.
DO YOU NOT READ OTHER POSTS ABOUT R/Rs?????????
find your main green wire in the harness.. add eyelets and ground it to the FRAME .. front middle and back of bike.. CLEAN all your contact areas and on the wires and such..
the green wires from the R/R.. ground them straight to the frame!!
and use silver heat transfer compound from the computer store.. put a BIG glob on the back off the R/R
.. add a computer fan while your at it..only cost 10 bucks.
the above is how you save your R/R from going bad.. write it down and stick it on the inside of your tool box lid
THIS IS NOT BRAIN SURGERY!! I HAVE POSTED THIS FOR YEARS!!!
IF YOU HAD DONE THIS YOU WOULD HAVE SPENT 15 BUCKS ! :dry:
Gee it does sound like it's never been done before. :beatdeadhorse:
Anyways, based on online info here and on other VFR forums, *Just search "rectifier" on the search window here) -here's what I did to mine 4th gen, which fried the connectors at the relay, and killed the R-R:
Replaced RR with a gixxer 1k one. (R1 was recommended, but didn't find it at the time) -Use electric heat transfer grease on the frame side.
Install PC fan, on top of its manly radiator fins, hot wired to the rear light.
attach from the harness with 10GA wire: Ground directly to batt Neg. (tapped, not spliced).
and POS from RR harness directly to POS battery, through a 30amp fuse. Added, not replaced the existing line that's direct to the starter relay)
FFWD 5k miles, all is well, except had to replace the connectors at the relay again -fried. (which I blame on stop-start riding I do sometimes in the city)
But nothing else has been damaged, same old battery and all else.
It charges fine, it starts after a few days sitting with its alarm on.
And while running; using a remote temp gauge inserted in the RR fins, it always reads 10-12 deg C. higher than ambient temp. not bad!
[image: View Post]gll429, on 19 August 2010 - 02:00 AM, said:
[image: View Post]Earthshake, on 18 August 2010 - 07:58 PM, said:
If I get rid of the bike, electrical issues will be the reason. I replaced it all at once in the spring. Purchased stator, mofset RR, VFRness and a new battery. I used spray electrical cleaner and dielectric grease on all connections. It was rock solid for about three months, then the connector between the stator and RR cooked. Is there no friggin' end to this BS.
DO YOU NOT READ OTHER POSTS ABOUT R/Rs?????????
find your main green wire in the harness.. add eyelets and ground it to the FRAME .. front middle and back of bike.. CLEAN all your contact areas and on the wires and such..
the green wires from the R/R.. ground them straight to the frame!!
and use silver heat transfer compound from the computer store.. put a BIG glob on the back off the R/R
.. add a computer fan while your at it..only cost 10 bucks.
the above is how you save your R/R from going bad.. write it down and stick it on the inside of your tool box lid
THIS IS NOT BRAIN SURGERY!! I HAVE POSTED THIS FOR YEARS!!!
IF YOU HAD DONE THIS YOU WOULD HAVE SPENT 15 BUCKS ! :dry:
I really appreciate your insite on the fixes - I'm going to look into it. --- I think why the repeated questions is that there seems to be multiple fixes out there, and also not a whole lot of threads that have a progression of photos to a permafix. So, an electrical dunce like me, reads about this and that fix, and why wouldnt I walk away with my head spinning? :blink:
I am sorry but I didn't read all the post. I am just offering the solution that worked for me. I bought a 2005 Yamaha R1 r/r and added a Datel volt meter I also added a beefed up ground per the advise of other members here. This fix solved my problem 100% for 4 years now. I went threw 2 factory r/r's before going this route. :fing02: Only real work part in you need a dremel and you have to cut about a half inch offf the cooling fines to mount it in the honda stock location. Which I did. Others have relocated it to a cooler spot and not had to cut it.
Honestly like I said I didn't read the other post so sorry if I am :beatdeadhorse: but this worked for me so I felt inclined
PLEASE READ ALL THE DETAILS IN THE PICTURE THEY ARE IMPORTANT IN GETTING THE FIX RIGHT. IT EXPLAINS A MISTAKE IN THE DRAWING
FEEL FREE TO pm ME ANY QUESTIONS. I got the R1 r/r for $34.00 off ebay. The cheapest one I can find now is $50 http://cgi.ebay.com/...sQ5fAccessories
The volt meter can be found here. Make sure you get the right color and volt range. http://www.digitalme...and=link--order
I had to install some new rear brake shoes, this required removing the seat and draining the rear resovior to press the pistons in. While in there I inspected the charge and starter solenoid wiring. Mine still in great shape, no deteioration at all. a touch of wd40 and back to bed. 77,000 mile
[image: View Post]vfral1, on 20 September 2010 - 06:07 PM, said:
Does anyone have an explanation for why the bikes go about 20k miles before this problem rears its head and then keeps reoccurring?
I'm guessing dirty connections, including fuse holders and grounds.
Also, batteries get old, go bad around that same time, but since they still start the bike, they don't get replaced. A 'bad' battery can be a large load on the charging system.
Is there any definitive information out there about the use of di-electric grease on connections vs using something like Noalox for wiring connections / grounds? Does using either matter?
[image: View Post]Cogswell, on 20 September 2010 - 08:48 PM, said:
Is there any definitive information out there about the use of di-electric grease on connections vs using something like Noalox for wiring connections / grounds? Does using either matter?
personally I dont reccomend di -elecric grease, I think its too much an isulator most the time, which can make heat build up worse
I just use wd40, and not had any wiring issues at all on this bike , totally stock 79,000 mile other than power port
anther thing, my bike has never been soaped and water hosed, does it need it ? Yeh it does, but reliability is priceless
Great info! Gave me the confidence to wire in the r/r I took off my GEN I FJR this spring when I upgraded the charging system to a GEN II. 100 more watts.
The 05 FJR r/r is wired the same as the r1 unit. It's a 35 amp unit, but the FJR made more power than the VFR, so I'm not worried about that.
My '99 VFR just fried its 3rd one in 90K. The FJR unit also has 90K on it and never skipped a beat, so once again I've solved my Honda issues by throwing Yamaha parts at it.
I have been diging more into the technical side of this stuff. Things that make you go - hmmmm...
Anyhow for grins here's a Triumph forum thread on a R/R conversion that is excellent. http://www.triumphra...or-upgrade.html
[image: View Post]mello dude, on 25 September 2010 - 10:17 PM, said:
I have been diging more into the technical side of this stuff. Things that make you go - hmmmm...
Anyhow for grins here's a Triumph forum thread on a R/R conversion that is excellent. http://www.triumphra...or-upgrade.html
I have a way better idea where I'm gonna go with the mods now.
My voltages for the moment with new battery is 13.3 idle, 13.7 @5000 rpm
I've got a speed triple (same type of charging system) and I've seen that post. If you've making a change, consider DeCosse's post 14 in that threat re: the Compufire regulator. Per the next post by that author in that thread, the Compufire is a completely different type of regulator from the "shunt" type found on VFRs and S3s, one that's easier on the stator (improved MOSFET used on Yamahas and others is better than Hondas/Triumphs/Aprilias, but any type of MOSFET r/r somehow makes the stator produce more heat, relative to Compufire - stator failures not necessarily related to r/r failures). There's a ton of info on the switch to the Compufire in posts. On the aprilia board, see http://www.apriliafo...ad.php?t=160360 but the real guy for this change (referenced in that post 14 in the Triumph thread) is: http://www.thegsreso...ad.php?t=152769
My VFR system is fine now w/14.0-1v @ 4k, but if I were to redo it now, I'd try the Compufire. Here's a guy who did a Compufire install: http://www.triumphra...nformation.html
[image: View Post]Misspent Youth, on 26 September 2010 - 09:57 AM, said:
[image: View Post]mello dude, on 25 September 2010 - 10:17 PM, said:
I have been diging more into the technical side of this stuff. Things that make you go - hmmmm...
Anyhow for grins here's a Triumph forum thread on a R/R conversion that is excellent. http://www.triumphra...or-upgrade.html
I have a way better idea where I'm gonna go with the mods now.
My voltages for the moment with new battery is 13.3 idle, 13.7 @5000 rpm
I've got a speed triple (same type of charging system) and I've seen that post. If you've making a change, consider DeCosse's post 14 in that threat re: the Compufire regulator. Per the next post by that author in that thread, the Compufire is a completely different type of regulator from the "shunt" type found on VFRs and S3s, one that's easier on the stator (improved MOSFET used on Yamahas and others is better than Hondas/Triumphs/Aprilias, but any type of MOSFET r/r somehow makes the stator produce more heat, relative to Compufire - stator failures not necessarily related to r/r failures). There's a ton of info on the switch to the Compufire in posts. On the aprilia board, see http://www.apriliafo...ad.php?t=160360 but the real guy for this change (referenced in that post 14 in the Triumph thread) is: http://www.thegsreso...ad.php?t=152769
My VFR system is fine now w/14.0-1v @ 4k, but if I were to redo it now, I'd try the Compufire. Here's a guy who did a Compufire install: http://www.triumphra...nformation.html
Waaay da minute - --- A MOSFET r/r will force more current into the stator and cause it to run hotter? The Compufire r/r's are built mostly for Harleys? Rrrrrrrrrrrrr, - my head hurts............ :dry:
More studying to go............. :blink:
Can't remember if I posted this on here before, but the R/R, stator, and connectors all burned up on my 1999 at 24k miles (w/fairly new battery, ALWAYS on trickle charger).
In accordance with the majority opinion on here I purchased the upgraded replacement parts from Ricks, through tightwad, with the VFRness. Had the dealer put it all on, and just got it back tonight.
One observation that I did not expect is that it seems to have more "pop" that it did before. It started easier and felt stronger. I know I'm not imagining it, so the question is; could the larger wiring be "feeding" it better? OR, could the dealer have 'overcharged' the battery? When the RR went, it killed the battery so the dealer had to recharge it.
[image: View Post]vfral1, on 22 October 2010 - 10:14 PM, said:
Can't remember if I posted this on here before, but the R/R, stator, and connectors all burned up on my 1999 at 24k miles (w/fairly new battery, ALWAYS on trickle charger).
In accordance with the majority opinion on here I purchased the upgraded replacement parts from Ricks, through tightwad, with the VFRness. Had the dealer put it all on, and just got it back tonight.
One observation that I did not expect is that it seems to have more "pop" that it did before. It started easier and felt stronger. I know I'm not imagining it, so the question is; could the larger wiring be "feeding" it better? OR, could the dealer have 'overcharged' the battery? When the RR went, it killed the battery so the dealer had to recharge it.
Any thoughts? I'm not a kook, really!
My parts add 10% butt dyno and desk dyno HP...you should see how much power they add after your bike has been down 3 months and you have been riding a Honda Rebel instead!
[image: View Post]Tightwad, on 22 October 2010 - 11:19 PM, said:
[image: View Post]vfral1, on 22 October 2010 - 10:14 PM, said:
Can't remember if I posted this on here before, but the R/R, stator, and connectors all burned up on my 1999 at 24k miles (w/fairly new battery, ALWAYS on trickle charger).
In accordance with the majority opinion on here I purchased the upgraded replacement parts from Ricks, through tightwad, with the VFRness. Had the dealer put it all on, and just got it back tonight.
One observation that I did not expect is that it seems to have more "pop" that it did before. It started easier and felt stronger. I know I'm not imagining it, so the question is; could the larger wiring be "feeding" it better? OR, could the dealer have 'overcharged' the battery? When the RR went, it killed the battery so the dealer had to recharge it.
Any thoughts? I'm not a kook, really!
My parts add 10% butt dyno and desk dyno HP...you should see how much power they add after your bike has been down 3 months and you have been riding a Honda Rebel instead!
Honda Rebel ....?? I bet you just about hard your arms pulled out of their sockets on your first ride back! LOL! E-Ticket
[image: View Post]Misspent Youth, on 09 August 2010 - 09:49 AM, said:
[image: View Post]superfunkomatic, on 08 August 2010 - 03:41 PM, said:
I'm curious to find ways of troubleshooting where the actual problem lies. Both stator and regulator went this week on my vacation. Have others had better luck after the replacement had been done?
You've heard of "shunt" r/rs (VFR's type), and the replacement R1 "mosfet" type - well, apparently both of those cause too much heat, or something, that injures the stator and/or r/r, or something, one or both of which still kill the battery, so how about a NEW type of r/r? This one's called a "series" type. It costs more ($180 on Amazon) and are physically larger, but supposedly correct the issues with the other two types.
Lots of bikes running shunt r/rs have the same problems the VFR does, including Triumph and Aprilia. Here's a thread from the Aprilia forum that will give you more sources and info: http://www.apriliafo...d.php?p=2598642
I haven't tried it yet - just passing on the info.
I am and Electrical Engineer and new to motorcycling, so I'm intrigued with all the threads on electrical problems with bikes. It seems charging issues are a problem with all VFR's, some generations more than others and many other models/makes of bike. You see similar threads on many other sites.
The problem seems to be that many bikes use a SHUNT type of regulator as they are cheap. Here the regulator works by dumping any excess energy to ground to keep the voltage constant at 14.5 volts. The process relies on running the stator at its max current so it saturates and limits the output voltage, any excess current after charging the battery and powering the bike is dumped to ground.
The problem is that the stator is effectively running at max current on a permanent basis, the regulator wiring and connector have to permanently deal with excessively high currents and eventually burn out. The currently suggested fixes of changing to higher current handling regulators, wiring and connectors is great for everything except the stator. They actually make the problem worse by putting more strain on the stator. I've read of several people doing these mods then still having to replace stators. This is because the better wiring and regulators being lower resistance present an even bigger load to the stator causing it to burn out quicker than with the older higher resistance wiring.
I recently came across s a thread for a better design of regulator a SERIES regulator the Compufire 55402, I think they sell for $180. Here the regulator works by limiting the current taken from the stator to that required by the bike it does not waste power by dumping excess to ground. The stator then runs at a much lower current as does the regulator, wiring and connectors.
With a properly designed system you should not get stators, regulators and wiring burning out; it's crazy. With this regulator I doubt you need to change wiring or connectors and should not get stator failure. All the electrical components will run at much lower temperature due to the much reduce current in the circuit.
I am not connected to compufire the design just makes sense to me.
[image: View Post]Misspent Youth, on 09 August 2010 - 09:49 AM, said:
[image: View Post]superfunkomatic, on 08 August 2010 - 03:41 PM, said:
I'm curious to find ways of troubleshooting where the actual problem lies. Both stator and regulator went this week on my vacation. Have others had better luck after the replacement had been done?
You've heard of "shunt" r/rs (VFR's type), and the replacement R1 "mosfet" type - well, apparently both of those cause too much heat, or something, that injures the stator and/or r/r, or something, one or both of which still kill the battery, so how about a NEW type of r/r? This one's called a "series" type. It costs more ($180 on Amazon) and are physically larger, but supposedly correct the issues with the other two types.
Lots of bikes running shunt r/rs have the same problems the VFR does, including Triumph and Aprilia. Here's a thread from the Aprilia forum that will give you more sources and info: http://www.apriliafo...d.php?p=2598642
I haven't tried it yet - just passing on the info.
I am and Electrical Engineer and new to motorcycling, so I'm intrigued with all the threads on electrical problems with bikes. It seems charging issues are a problem with all VFR's, some generations more than others and many other models/makes of bike. You see similar threads on many other sites.
The problem seems to be that many bikes use a SHUNT type of regulator as they are cheap. Here the regulator works by dumping any excess energy to ground to keep the voltage constant at 14.5 volts. The process relies on running the stator at its max current so it saturates and limits the output voltage, any excess current after charging the battery and powering the bike is dumped to ground.
The problem is that the stator is effectively running at max current on a permanent basis, the regulator wiring and connector have to permanently deal with excessively high currents and eventually burn out. The currently suggested fixes of changing to higher current handling regulators, wiring and connectors is great for everything except the stator. They actually make the problem worse by putting more strain on the stator. I've read of several people doing these mods then still having to replace stators. This is because the better wiring and regulators being lower resistance present an even bigger load to the stator causing it to burn out quicker than with the older higher resistance wiring.
I recently came across s a thread for a better design of regulator a SERIES regulator the Compufire 55402, I think they sell for $180. Here the regulator works by limiting the current taken from the stator to that required by the bike it does not waste power by dumping excess to ground. The stator then runs at a much lower current as does the regulator, wiring and connectors.
With a properly designed system you should not get stators, regulators and wiring burning out; it's crazy. With this regulator I doubt you need to change wiring or connectors and should not get stator failure. All the electrical components will run at much lower temperature due to the much reduce current in the circuit.
I am not connected to compufire the design just makes sense to me.