I have a 01 vfr800, with mod's as follows/pc3usb with cozey map (330ohm resisters),yoshimura rs3 carbon fiber slip-on, and a bunch more, but I've really been wanting to do the airbox mod and I've read too many threads to come to a good conclusion on what to do, idc about sound I just wanna let her breath and get the most out of the pc3 and Yoshi or get the most performance I can with diy stuff, so the thread starts and I'm interested to see what ya'll have to say, everyone says flapper, pair valve, and snorkel but Idk what the hell I'm doing lol, so witch one actually does something and wich one's don't? any advice would be great, thank you
hollenbeck
I have a 01 vfr800, with mod's as follows/pc3usb with cozey map (330ohm resisters),yoshimura rs3 carbon fiber slip-on, and a bunch more, but I've really been wanting to do the airbox mod and I've read too many threads to come to a good conclusion on what to do, idc about sound I just wanna let her breath and get the most out of the pc3 and Yoshi or get the most performance I can with diy stuff, so the thread starts and I'm interested to see what ya'll have to say, everyone says flapper, pair valve, and snorkel but Idk what the hell I'm doing lol, so witch one actually does something and wich one's don't? any advice would be great, thank you
The snorkel mod changes the resonance of the airbox, but not necessarily the flow amount. I found a really cool animation on the air intake and how it pulses and pressure changes and that, but no idea where.
PAIR removal has nothing to do with air intake. You can remove it and it shouldn't affect much aside from a throttle body sync.
I know this topic has been going on for yrs, but Im almost done with her, I done ever mod I've found any performance mod's pop up in your head, cause I only have pc3usb, Yoshi, 929 mono shock and lowered front forks, so ideas on what to do next that won't brake the bank
I know this is a stupid question so I'm admitting it up front, wich one is cat convertor and wich one is the snorkel? I've never messed with the airbox except cleaning K&N filter
I de-snorkeled my 4th gen about two years ago......And frankly, I never could feel or hear any difference :unsure: ...Heck, I guess I at least took maybe a 1/4 pound off the bike taking it off....... :rolleyes:
Cat converter is short for catalytic converter and it is part of the exhaust system. If your interested in removing it then the best way is replacing the exhaust. The snorkel is a rubber air channel that directs air into the air box. It is on the top right of the air box if you are sitting on the bike.
... and I love the sound of the bike with the de-snorkeled de-flappered mods! Starts with a growl when I crack the throttle and ends with a rush and and a roar as my front tire is skimming the ground!!!
There are only 2 good mods that really do something.
1: Put a marble in both reed tubes to kill the valve-pairing system, or remove the entire valve-pairing and close them on both sides of the cylinderheads.
2: Remove the vacuum tube to the flapper-valve in the airbox and make sure the tube is airtight.
The snorkel mod does nothing except make useless extra noise, on top you have the risk of getting water into the airbox and the airfilter, not worth the risk.
YoshiHNS
PAIR removal has nothing to do with air intake. You can remove it and it shouldn't affect much aside from a throttle body sync.
Yes it does, as it let air flow from the airbox to the exhaust and thus killing low RPM riding comfort, as well as power at low RPM.
BassieThe snorkel mod does nothing except make useless extra noise, on top you have the risk of getting water into the airbox and the airfilter, not worth the risk.
How does the snorkel keep water out of the air box? The opening is slightly larger when it is removed but at a given rpm the engine is pulling the same amount of air into the cylinders whether the snorkel is there or not. The higher velocity air flow through the snorkel could in certain circumstances pull more water droplets into the air box and filter. Please explain, I don't understand.
I respectfully disagree about the useless extra noise. The decreased air resistance and lower vacuum reduce pumping loses and has been shown to produce about 1-1.5 bhp at the rear wheel on a dyno... and it costs nothing.
Interesting but those number are within normal error. Notice it was runs #1 and #5. It seems that it took until the 5th for the oil to get hot enough to thin enough give up a very tiny bit more power (again within error). The 5th run was 5 minutes after the 1st run and within that same 5 minutes, the snorkel was removed.
BassieThe snorkel mod does nothing except make useless extra noise, on top you have the risk of getting water into the airbox and the airfilter, not worth the risk.
How does the snorkel keep water out of the air box? The opening is slightly larger when it is removed but at a given rpm the engine is pulling the same amount of air into the cylinders whether the snorkel is there or not. The higher velocity air flow through the snorkel could in certain circumstances pull more water droplets into the air box and filter. Please explain, I don't understand.
I respectfully disagree about the useless extra noise. The decreased air resistance and lower vacuum reduce pumping loses and has been shown to produce about 1-1.5 bhp at the rear wheel on a dyno... and it costs nothing.
...Plus it sounds really cool!
If you ride in the rain, without the snorkel water can enter the box.
With the snorkel it's near to impossible.
And no, several people have put the machine in a power-testbench and the snorkel does not make any difference in HP.
The flapper and valve-pairing mod do increase the torque at lower RPM, however do not increase HP, ergo give a more smooth ride at low speeds and RPM.
About the noise, I don't find the noise of the airbox cool, I rather listen to a good exhaust like a DAM pipe. (I have one and it sound the best on the market!)
BassieThe snorkel mod does nothing except make useless extra noise, on top you have the risk of getting water into the airbox and the airfilter, not worth the risk.
How does the snorkel keep water out of the air box? The opening is slightly larger when it is removed but at a given rpm the engine is pulling the same amount of air into the cylinders whether the snorkel is there or not. The higher velocity air flow through the snorkel could in certain circumstances pull more water droplets into the air box and filter. Please explain, I don't understand.
I respectfully disagree about the useless extra noise. The decreased air resistance and lower vacuum reduce pumping loses and has been shown to produce about 1-1.5 bhp at the rear wheel on a dyno... and it costs nothing.
...Plus it sounds really cool!
If you ride in the rain, without the snorkel water can enter the box.
With the snorkel it's near to impossible.
And no, several people have put the machine in a power-testbench and the snorkel does not make any difference in HP.
The flapper and valve-pairing mod do increase the torque at lower RPM, however do not increase HP, ergo give a more smooth ride at low speeds and RPM.
About the noise, I don't find the noise of the airbox cool, I rather listen to a good exhaust like a DAM pipe. (I have one and it sound the best on the market!)
This thread is the first I've heard about water entering the air box due to snorkel removal. I've had mine off for 3 1/2 years and have ridden through torrential rains for hours at highway and back road speeds and never had any issues with water in my air box. There are many others with this simple, common, Honda mod and I've never heard of any water complaints. If you do the flapper mod you are opening a similar window into the air box at the same level and attitude and apparently that doesn't cause problems with water in the air box either.
... cool gases in the front throttle or hot gases out the rear pipe... it's all just wind making noise and I love it!!!
BassieThe snorkel mod does nothing except make useless extra noise, on top you have the risk of getting water into the airbox and the airfilter, not worth the risk.
How does the snorkel keep water out of the air box? The opening is slightly larger when it is removed but at a given rpm the engine is pulling the same amount of air into the cylinders whether the snorkel is there or not. The higher velocity air flow through the snorkel could in certain circumstances pull more water droplets into the air box and filter. Please explain, I don't understand.
I respectfully disagree about the useless extra noise. The decreased air resistance and lower vacuum reduce pumping loses and has been shown to produce about 1-1.5 bhp at the rear wheel on a dyno... and it costs nothing.
...Plus it sounds really cool!
If you ride in the rain, without the snorkel water can enter the box.
With the snorkel it's near to impossible.
And no, several people have put the machine in a power-testbench and the snorkel does not make any difference in HP.
The flapper and valve-pairing mod do increase the torque at lower RPM, however do not increase HP, ergo give a more smooth ride at low speeds and RPM.
About the noise, I don't find the noise of the airbox cool, I rather listen to a good exhaust like a DAM pipe. (I have one and it sound the best on the market!)
The purpose of the flapper valve is to maintain intake velocity in the snorkel at low throttle openings. They do this to improve throttle response in the "normal" use areas. Once you reach a load and RPM when the extra air needed, the flap is opened. Since the flap is open at full throttle, removing it will have no effect on max HP. Removing it and the snorkel will only hurt throttle response. This is the same reason for the whole VTEC thing. Using half the intake valves at low RPM is to increase intake velocity, there by improving throttle response and efficiency.
... intake, exhaust; inhale, exhale... I love hearing the engine breath!
In the immortal words of Neil Peart... it's all "...mechanical music... adrenaline surge!"
I think the jury is still out on how effective Honda was in accomplishing the improved throttle response in the lower rpm thing judging by the number of people looking to "fix" or improve the throttle response to make it more ride-able.
IMHO most commercially available engineered equipment is a compromise between many factors... in this case government noise regulations, emissions, materials, manufacturing efficiency and costs, etc are not the least of which. I understand and appreciate what Honda was going for with the 5th gen air box set-up; I just have serious questions about it's efficacy.
... besides, when I start hearing my girl breathing heavy it does something to me :goofy:
... intake, exhaust; inhale, exhale... I love hearing the engine breath!
In the immortal words of Neil Peart... it's all "...mechanical music... adrenaline surge!"
I think the jury is still out on how effective Honda was in accomplishing the improved throttle response in the lower rpm thing judging by the number of people looking to "fix" or improve the throttle response to make it more ride-able.
IMHO most commercially available engineered equipment is a compromise between many factors... in this case government noise regulations, emissions, materials, manufacturing efficiency and costs, etc are not the least of which. I understand and appreciate what Honda was going for with the 5th gen air box set-up; I just have serious questions about it's efficacy.
... besides, when I start hearing my girl breathing heavy it does something to me :goofy:
Think about it, if the soul intent was decrease noise, that could have accomplished with a couple well placed baffles in the air box lid. The baffles would have done a better job of noise control at a 1/10 of the cost, not to mention a 1/10 of the weight!
Not trying to be rude, but funny, but in the great words of Aleksandar Živojinović, "Blah...blah,blah....blah,blah,blah....blah....blah,blah,blah blah!
There are only 2 good mods that really do something.
1: Put a marble in both reed tubes to kill the valve-pairing system, or remove the entire valve-pairing and close them on both sides of the cylinderheads.
2: Remove the vacuum tube to the flapper-valve in the airbox and make sure the tube is airtight.
The snorkel mod does nothing except make useless extra noise, on top you have the risk of getting water into the airbox and the airfilter, not worth the risk.
YoshiHNS
PAIR removal has nothing to do with air intake. You can remove it and it shouldn't affect much aside from a throttle body sync.
Yes it does, as it let air flow from the airbox to the exhaust and thus killing low RPM riding comfort, as well as power at low RPM.
can you explain more on what you mean by put a marble in the reed tubes and where there located, and what would be a good plug for the vaccum tube to make sure it's air tight
I removed my PAIR system simply for ease of maintenance. I noticed no difference in performance, but the decel popping is gone.
Other than that, the K&N, and the 2 Bros carbon can the engine is stock. Bike runs fine. Better to spend money on suspension as that is primarily where the 5th gen is lacking.
There are only 2 good mods that really do something.
1: Put a marble in both reed tubes to kill the valve-pairing system, or remove the entire valve-pairing and close them on both sides of the cylinderheads.
can you explain more on what you mean by put a marble in the reed tubes and where there located, and what would be a good plug for the vaccum tube to make sure it's air tight
You can remove the entire system in total.
But they are talking about having regular bike checks in Europe once a year.
Because of that I use marbles to block the reed-tubes so I can undo the blocking for the check (if needed) and put them back later, is less work then install the system again.
If the checks don't measure gasses, then I will remove the system for good.
The reed tubes are the thumb thick tubes at the outside of your cilinderhead and the are connected to a valve that is located just above your oil-cooler.
The third tube at this valve is connected to the airbox.
[image: pair1.jpg]
Either you remove the valve and 3 tubes and block all or simply put a marble in the 2 tubes that go to either cilinderhead at the exhaust side.
The inner tube on the cilinderhead looks the same but it the airflow between airbox and cilinder-vavles, don't block or remove that one.
I'm guessing if you started with "no snorkel" run #1, then put it back, by the 5th run you'd have higher numbers for "with snorkel". It just took 5 runs to heat up the oil.
There are only 2 good mods that really do something.
1: Put a marble in both reed tubes to kill the valve-pairing system, or remove the entire valve-pairing and close them on both sides of the cylinderheads.
2: Remove the vacuum tube to the flapper-valve in the airbox and make sure the tube is airtight.
The snorkel mod does nothing except make useless extra noise, on top you have the risk of getting water into the airbox and the airfilter, not worth the risk.
YoshiHNS
PAIR removal has nothing to do with air intake. You can remove it and it shouldn't affect much aside from a throttle body sync.
Yes it does, as it let air flow from the airbox to the exhaust and thus killing low RPM riding comfort, as well as power at low RPM.
I'm guessing if you started with "no snorkel" run #1, then put it back, by the 5th run you'd have higher numbers for "with snorkel". It just took 5 runs to heat up the oil.
Besides, it's a 5th gen, no VTEC.
Not my bike, I have no idea. Just a repost from the old "Big Mailing List" on the .wisc.edu server.
I'm guessing if you started with "no snorkel" run #1, then put it back, by the 5th run you'd have higher numbers for "with snorkel". It just took 5 runs to heat up the oil.
Besides, it's a 5th gen, no VTEC.
Not my bike, I have no idea. Just a repost from the old "Big Mailing List" on the .wisc.edu server.
Take the snorkel out and try it. It's super easy and you can put it back if you don't like it. I went back and forth and finally left it out. I'm a less is more guy.
With the VFR I think the results are a mixed results. Some like a quieter bike with less vibration so the heavy stock exhaust and rubber snorkel on the air box mod should be ignored for them. I don't like excessively loud bikes but love the sound of the V four so my snorkel is off and I have a extra baffled stainless Delkavik exhaust on mine. Staintune high mount with the spud baffle was even sexier.
The Jardine race slip on was too much for my sleepy neighborhood and tiresome on longer rides. I de paired mine because I work on my own bike and it was just more junk in the trunk when I used to check the valve lash every interval. Plus some very nice gentleman from England on this board donated his De pair plates to me. (Cheers again to you) :beer: .
I had bad exhaust gaskets on the rear union to the rear headers so the popping on decel was more like loud back firing. Depair cancelled alot of racket but I did have to replace the exhaust gaskets as well. Side note: Do not use your exhaust headers as a jacking support for front end work. You will be sorry when you have to replace these pain in the ass gaskets.
Far as getting more power out of the V four I would say the power quality is more important. And that's why the VFR is such an awesome mill. Not the most power but the way it is delivered is hard to beat.
BTW that marble in the vacuum line mod is brilliant. Love it.
I'm guessing if you started with "no snorkel" run #1, then put it back, by the 5th run you'd have higher numbers for "with snorkel". It just took 5 runs to heat up the oil.
Besides, it's a 5th gen, no VTEC.
The OP bike is a 5th gen...
You make a good point on the oil temp and heat sink on the dyno runs... as long as your assumption is correct about the engine and oil temps being significantly colder on the baseline run. The reality is it did not show any loss except on one data point, so I think we can agree it doesn't really do any harm removing it. As you pointed out the differences are all within tolerances so statistically they are the same... on or off. If you like the sound and are a minimalist (less is more) run without it. If you want to keep it stock and installed, no worries...
I had bad exhaust gaskets on the rear union to the rear headers so the popping on decel was more like loud back firing. Depair cancelled alot of racket but I did have to replace the exhaust gaskets as well. Side note: Do not use your exhaust headers as a jacking support for front end work. You will be sorry when you have to replace these pain in the ass gaskets.
:ohmy: That's contrary to every bit of advice I've seen on here but obviously you know from experience. Do you think that it was a kink, ie from jacking with something too pointed, or was it a gentle bend, thus putting the rear header / cylinder connections out of alignment?
Anyone else tweaked their header by jacking up the front with a floor jack and 2x4 while on the center stand?
There are only 2 good mods that really do something.
1: Put a marble in both reed tubes to kill the valve-pairing system, or remove the entire valve-pairing and close them on both sides of the cylinderheads.
can you explain more on what you mean by put a marble in the reed tubes and where there located, and what would be a good plug for the vaccum tube to make sure it's air tight
You can remove the entire system in total.
But they are talking about having regular bike checks in Europe once a year.
Because of that I use marbles to block the reed-tubes so I can undo the blocking for the check (if needed) and put them back later, is less work then install the system again.
If the checks don't measure gasses, then I will remove the system for good.
The reed tubes are the thumb thick tubes at the outside of your cilinderhead and the are connected to a valve that is located just above your oil-cooler.
The third tube at this valve is connected to the airbox.
[image: pair1.jpg]
Either you remove the valve and 3 tubes and block all or simply put a marble in the 2 tubes that go to either cilinderhead at the exhaust side.
The inner tube on the cilinderhead looks the same but it the airflow between airbox and cilinder-vavles, don't block or remove that one.
Marbles are simply far more easy to do and it's done in 30 minutes, where removing it entirely is far more work but saves weight.
It's the same on most injection-powered bikes, my sons CBR1000RR has the same and we removed it there too.
A marble mod looks like this:
[image: 115384d1222541982-marble-mod-marble-mod-]
Simply put a kids playing marble in the tubes and connect it again, simple and effective.
marbles it is but I'm kinda skidish about doing it cause I don't know wich 2 to plug, again I'll probably be better when I get in there but this sounds like a second language now lol,so do I have to remove airbox or not and the hose on the left side how can I tell wich one to plug, I know I'm being a pain in the ass but I've only done mod's as far as looks and simple maintence so I don't know what everything looks like
The purpose of the PAIR system is to add oxygen to the exhaust as close to the exhaust port as possible in hopes that the unburnt hydrocarbons, oxygen, and heat will continue the combustion and consume the unburnt hydrocarbons. In the VFR, the ECU controls the operation of the PAIR system by means of a solenoid controlled air valve. When open, exhaust passing over the PAIR ports in the head draws a vacuum that pulls a small amount of filtered air from the air box. That fresh air blends with the exhaust, thus adding oxygen to the heat and hydrocarbons. Now then, the statement below is not a guess or a theory, it's fact. I've actually gotten out a multimeter and seen this with my own eyes, on my bike, which is an '06. The ECU only only operates the solenoid air valve when-1. The throttle is closed.2. The coolant temp is below 168-ish Unless those 2 items are true, the valve is closed. Now, my VFR is an '06 and that was a year of some minor changes, but having said that, I would be amazed if it didn't apply to '02-'10. It only makes sense, start up is when there are the most hydrocarbons. Also, this secondary combustion would help to get the cat. up to temp. It would also stand to reason that the PAIR could not be active while the bike is in closed loop. Removing or deactivating the PAIR would increase the warm up time slightly (and emmisions). Leaving it alone, leaves one more thing that can fail and cause issues.
Now then, the statement below is not a guess or a theory, it's fact. I've actually gotten out a multimeter and seen this with my own eyes, on my bike, which is an '06.
The ECU only only operates the solenoid air valve when-1. The throttle is closed.2. The coolant temp is below 168-ish
Unless those 2 items are true, the valve is closed.
Now, VFR is an '06 and that was a year of some minor changes, but having said that, I would be amazed if it didn't apply to '02-'10.
Also, it makes sense, start up is when there are the most hydrocarbons. Also, this secondary combustion would help to get the cat. up to temp. It would also stand to reason that the PAIR could not be active while the bike is in closed loop.
Mines gone.
This was mentioned in another thread. Why is it that everyone swears that the PAIR system is the source of everything that is wrong with the VFR? I believe what your statement and it makes sense that it would happen on those occasions. Could it be the transition that is the real source of trouble?
I've got a long way to go, I feel retarded about the pair removal subject, I'm going to do the marble mod but I wish I had a step by step guide for dummy's lol, I hate when I don't know about certain stuff, so research here I come
Don't remove it at first. It is much more simple to plug it. Have you ever replaced your airfilter. If so, you can do this. Just life the tank and take a a good look at the bottom of the airbox. Look at the hoses that come off of the bottom. Find the hose coming from the airbox that is about 3/4"- 1" in diameter. It goes to a small solenoid. The solenoid has the one large hose from the airbox coming to it and two more hoses going to the heads/valvecovers (1 hose to the front cylinder bank and one to the back). Once you are sure the have correct hose from the airbox, pull the hose off the airbox. It probably has a ring retainer on it. Stuff the marble in that hose*. Put the hose back on. Done!
If the hose you are looking at goes directly from the airbox to the engine without going through a solenoid, that is the wrong hose.
*I can't say for sure that it works this way on a 5th gen, but you only need one marble on a 6th gen. Rather than blocking it downstream from the solenoid, you block it before the air gets to the solenoid.
Download a service manual. It has lots of great pictures.
Don't remove it at first. It is much more simple to plug it. Have you ever replaced your airfilter. If so, you can do this. Just life the tank and take a a good look at the bottom of the airbox. Look at the hoses that come off of the bottom. Find the hose coming from the airbox that is about 3/4"- 1" in diameter. It goes to a small solenoid. The solenoid has the one large hose from the airbox coming to it and two more hoses going to the heads/valvecovers (1 hose to the front cylinder bank and one to the back). Once you are sure the have correct hose from the airbox, pull the hose off the airbox. It probably has a ring retainer on it. Stuff the marble in that hose*. Put the hose back on. Done!
If the hose you are looking at goes directly from the airbox to the engine without going through a solenoid, that is the wrong hose.
*I can't say for sure that it works this way on a 5th gen, but you only need one marble on a 6th gen. Rather than blocking it downstream from the solenoid, you block it before the air gets to the solenoid.
Download a service manual. It has lots of great pictures.
mine is a 5th gen but in the 2001 models it has the same v-tech and concepts as 6th gen just setup is different on most areas
I have a 01 vfr800, with mod's as follows/pc3usb with cozey map (330ohm resisters),yoshimura rs3 carbon fiber slip-on, and a bunch more, but I've really been wanting to do the airbox mod and I've read too many threads to come to a good conclusion on what to do, idc about sound I just wanna let her breath and get the most out of the pc3 and Yoshi or get the most performance I can with diy stuff, so the thread starts and I'm interested to see what ya'll have to say, everyone says flapper, pair valve, and snorkel but Idk what the hell I'm doing lol, so witch one actually does something and wich one's don't? any advice would be great, thank you
hollenbeck
I have a 01 vfr800, with mod's as follows/pc3usb with cozey map (330ohm resisters),yoshimura rs3 carbon fiber slip-on, and a bunch more, but I've really been wanting to do the airbox mod and I've read too many threads to come to a good conclusion on what to do, idc about sound I just wanna let her breath and get the most out of the pc3 and Yoshi or get the most performance I can with diy stuff, so the thread starts and I'm interested to see what ya'll have to say, everyone says flapper, pair valve, and snorkel but Idk what the hell I'm doing lol, so witch one actually does something and wich one's don't? any advice would be great, thank you
I'm doing it today, changed spark plugs and put 12v adapter on last night and I've had so much going on I forgot about it till last night so I'm headed to walmart for some marble now
If you look from the front wheel to the oil-cooler, you just unscrew the two screws that hold the oil-cooler in place.
(do not remove the oilcooler or disconnect it!)
Then you can lower the oilcooler a bit.
Then you see this:
[image: $T2eC16FHJG!FFm1BTuudBRjSJFNim!~~60_12.J]
This give you plenty room to unhook the reed tubes and put a marble in both.
Connect them again, put the oilcooler back in place, and done.
That's it.
I do block the both reed tubes (or do all three if you like) because the professionals remove the system and use blocking plates to do the same.
Ok I got the cooler loose, and there's 3 hose wich I've been pulling like a mother fu**er and can't get off anyways the side that has the 2 hoses do I just block the one that goes to the front valve then do the one on the cylinder head under the tank near the rear spark plugs? someone please reply lol
I don't see how removing the snorkle can cause water to enter the air box. The air box is under the tank, on top of the engine and behind the frame.It looks pretty protected to me besides where do you think the air for the flapper comes from if honda put the snorkle on the air box to keep out water wouldn't they have added one to the flapper as well?!
I don't see how removing the snorkle can cause water to enter the air box. The air box is under the tank, on top of the engine and behind the frame.It looks pretty protected to me besides where do you think the air for the flapper comes from if honda put the snorkle on the air box to keep out water wouldn't they have added one to the flapper as well?!
No water will enter the air box, mine has never had any water in it. It has been gone for almost 5 years..
So i got a k&n and from the start i never understood how it could flow better with half the surface area of stock. I later found a BMC and have been happy with that, closer surface area to stock. Although I removed the flapper long ago my issue with that and whether or not to use the snorkel is how the air flows in. both sides are not the same, what type of air turbulance goes on? Seems like if a benefit was to be made it would be with some modded lid scoop and a remap. Some post on here someone molded the top out of fiberglass and it looked impressive.
So i got a k&n and from the start i never understood how it could flow better with half the surface area of stock. I later found a BMC and have been happy with that, closer surface area to stock. Although I removed the flapper long ago my issue with that and whether or not to use the snorkel is how the air flows in. both sides are not the same, what type of air turbulance goes on? Seems like if a benefit was to be made it would be with some modded lid scoop and a remap. Some post on here someone molded the top out of fiberglass and it looked impressive.
stock, kn and bmc flow about the same, with bmc being a little higher than the kn and neither necessarily flowing anymore than a factory filter. Pipercross is the only real performance filter available for the vfr800. Piper cross uses 100% of the available filtering area, but the down side is that they are not cheap. I owned a bmc for a few years and it fell apart, really poor construction on the bmc....
You need to do the mods as a complete package, air box, filter, PC, accelerator pump to get the full results. I've put 15,000 miles on this bike since those mods, low down punch is not a problem out our corners, and also makes it smooth and easy to ride in the wet.
There is more induction noise from the air box, combines nicely with the Staintune when you back off.
So i got a k&n and from the start i never understood how it could flow better with half the surface area of stock. I later found a BMC and have been happy with that, closer surface area to stock. Although I removed the flapper long ago my issue with that and whether or not to use the snorkel is how the air flows in. both sides are not the same, what type of air turbulance goes on? Seems like if a benefit was to be made it would be with some modded lid scoop and a remap. Some post on here someone molded the top out of fiberglass and it looked impressive.
stock, kn and bmc flow about the same, with bmc being a little higher than the kn and neither necessarily flowing anymore than a factory filter. Pipercross is the only real performance filter available for the vfr800. Piper cross uses 100% of the available filtering area, but the down side is that they are not cheap. I owned a bmc for a few years and it fell apart, really poor construction on the bmc....
One would think the stock oil/paper filter has more resistance to airflow over the oil/gauze of the BMC and K&N. The BMC has alot of plastic which makes it seem cheap, agreed, but I dropped mine in years ago and haven't touched it since been fine. I checked out the Pipercross you mentioned, reminds me of the Trueflow filter I had tried on my car which did not impress me much, lots of metal there. The whole reason even swapped filters to begin with was my stock filter was chewed up during the winter and a nest was made by what appeared to be a rabbit of all things, was half full of rabbit turds.
Ive heard the driven ones for a busa fit but havent tried them myself. I yanked the snorkel the other day for giggles, its louder but im not sure I like how its louder, I really only hear it when idling and I kind of dont care for a loud bike around town. Out on the canyon im usually above the flapper opening RPM anyway so its sort of a moot point. Its been fun having a noisy bike the past week but I think I'm gonna stick the snorkel back in when the tank gets low again.
So i got a k&n and from the start i never understood how it could flow better with half the surface area of stock. I later found a BMC and have been happy with that, closer surface area to stock. Although I removed the flapper long ago my issue with that and whether or not to use the snorkel is how the air flows in. both sides are not the same, what type of air turbulance goes on? Seems like if a benefit was to be made it would be with some modded lid scoop and a remap. Some post on here someone molded the top out of fiberglass and it looked impressive.
stock, kn and bmc flow about the same, with bmc being a little higher than the kn and neither necessarily flowing anymore than a factory filter. Pipercross is the only real performance filter available for the vfr800. Piper cross uses 100% of the available filtering area, but the down side is that they are not cheap. I owned a bmc for a few years and it fell apart, really poor construction on the bmc....
So I have yet to check my BMC hopefully soon, but it may be possible that's its cracked. Do you have or know anyone with a Pipercross? I would like to know if anyone has measured and calculated the surface area of the webbing or metal grates, the open filter may cover 100% of the airbox but what % is filter is covered by the grates? Just curious in case I'm soon to be filter shopping.
So i got a k&n and from the start i never understood how it could flow better with half the surface area of stock. I later found a BMC and have been happy with that, closer surface area to stock. Although I removed the flapper long ago my issue with that and whether or not to use the snorkel is how the air flows in. both sides are not the same, what type of air turbulance goes on? Seems like if a benefit was to be made it would be with some modded lid scoop and a remap. Some post on here someone molded the top out of fiberglass and it looked impressive.
stock, kn and bmc flow about the same, with bmc being a little higher than the kn and neither necessarily flowing anymore than a factory filter. Pipercross is the only real performance filter available for the vfr800. Piper cross uses 100% of the available filtering area, but the down side is that they are not cheap. I owned a bmc for a few years and it fell apart, really poor construction on the bmc....
So I have yet to check my BMC hopefully soon, but it may be possible that's its cracked. Do you have or know anyone with a Pipercross? I would like to know if anyone has measured and calculated the surface area of the webbing or metal grates, the open filter may cover 100% of the airbox but what % is filter is covered by the grates? Just curious in case I'm soon to be filter shopping.
I have Pipercross Airfilter. Whatca need ? Pic's ?
The Pipercross air filter filter area is almost %100 of the air box opening .
It does have a lot of grates and the grates are plastic .
I am going to to remove/cap off my PAIR valves this winter.
I remember seeing some billet/aftermarket caps to replace the PAIR valves ... but can't remember where I saw ... or where to look.
Does anyone have any recommendations in that area?
Many thanks! E-Ticket
I originally bought a set of Dan's (Toro) billet aluminum PAIR block off plates and they are a work of art... recently bought a set of Kyle Racing black anodized 6065 aluminum for $34 bucks shipped off eb for my track bike... haven't installed them yet but they were about $10 more than the cheap painted 5051 aluminum ones that are out there
i tried a dry filter on my car from R2C. it dwafted the oil/gauze it was replacing but it seem have more resistance and just chocked it. So I'm not sold on that technology yet.
So i got a k&n and from the start i never understood how it could flow better with half the surface area of stock. I later found a BMC and have been happy with that, closer surface area to stock. Although I removed the flapper long ago my issue with that and whether or not to use the snorkel is how the air flows in. both sides are not the same, what type of air turbulance goes on? Seems like if a benefit was to be made it would be with some modded lid scoop and a remap. Some post on here someone molded the top out of fiberglass and it looked impressive.
stock, kn and bmc flow about the same, with bmc being a little higher than the kn and neither necessarily flowing anymore than a factory filter. Pipercross is the only real performance filter available for the vfr800. Piper cross uses 100% of the available filtering area, but the down side is that they are not cheap. I owned a bmc for a few years and it fell apart, really poor construction on the bmc....
So I have yet to check my BMC hopefully soon, but it may be possible that's its cracked. Do you have or know anyone with a Pipercross? I would like to know if anyone has measured and calculated the surface area of the webbing or metal grates, the open filter may cover 100% of the airbox but what % is filter is covered by the grates? Just curious in case I'm soon to be filter shopping.
I have Pipercross Airfilter. Whatca need ? Pic's ?
The Pipercross air filter filter area is almost %100 of the air box opening .
It does have a lot of grates and the grates are plastic .
PM sent ..
I think my next mod to the air box will be to cover the entire air box with that stick thermo blanket stuff. Try to insulate the air box from the heat of the engine .
I tried the thermal blanket deal on my car. In the end plastic doesnt hold heat like a metal, you will always pull in hot air from a stop and after that the fresh are either cools the plastic down but doesnt have to much time to preheat. Is dealing with heatsoak more beneficial than getting cooler more dense air into the box?
So I checked my BMC for cracks or issues, was fine, little dry. Blew off the bugs, reoiled, no need to join the pipercross club yet. My snorkel was just cut flush on the front of the lid, removed it completely now along with the flapper/shelf that was just deactivated before, plugging the top hole. I also noticed at some point I had removed the casting or stress braces on the inside of the lid. Previously I had shimmed the tank front, will see how much more noise it creates.
Has anyone run a snorkless box and then cut the lid wide open? Wondering if the acoustics of a gutted lid makes more noise than basically an open filter. My first ride today desnorkled and shelfless and she snorted for sure, for sure....
A quick survey of the nearly disassembled vfr in my garage indicates that routing ram air tubes will be rather difficult. The proximity of the tank, frame, and radiators surrounding the air box location will make routing tubes of sufficient diameter nearly impossible without also scrapping the lower portion of the air box. The only route I can see is straight down the front of the air box and under the head tube. This location is problematic in that it must still remain narrow enough as to not foul the fork tubes at full lock. Not saying ram air is impossible, just that it might take a significant amount of engineering and fabricating to pull off a functional system.
Has anyone run a snorkless box and then cut the lid wide open? Wondering if the acoustics of a gutted lid makes more noise than basically an open filter. My first ride today desnorkled and shelfless and she snorted for sure, for sure....
Yes. It is so loud that I cannot tell if it my clutch slipping when I hammer the throttle or the rear wheel breaking loose while it wheelies. I may have to have a couple of spotters in case I need new clutch springs before TexasMac...
Clutch slippage, thats a good one... I did just change my oil. I hammered on it and the R's jumped to the moon! At this point I'm thinking tire spin, less than a mile into a colder ride. 20 miles later and closer to home it yanked a power wheelie in the upper R's that kinda shocked me. My mapping seems a happier, just going to have to get use to the sound, can't quite hear the rpm over the BUURRRRRRRRRRR! Was thinking the gutted lid amplified the sound, guess not then.
Edit: Forgot first ride w new plugs as well, might have added to the smoothness of things.
Little update. So I have tested various configurations with the airbox, including deflapped then added cutting the snorkel flush front. Beginning of this season I went all out pulling the snorkel and also removing the flapper side shelf. Now I love the sound of power but this soon became a bit overwhelming, sometimes hollow sounding and yet it seemed to labor a bit more when lugging. If I spent all day near redline maybe it could be justified but I don't and I like hearing the rest of the bike. So I made yet another change that I and really happy with now and seems to be the strongest yet. I installed both the snork and flap shelf again but I cut them shorter. With this setup the incoming air has less of a hairpin to the front of the filter, but at the same time gives a little roar that is more in harmony with the rest of the bike, bringing that smile when you get on it without being obnoxious. Also have noticed better response when lugging compared to no snork/shelf. I have no proof other than my butt dyno but I thought it was worth sharing for those experimenting.
The before and after, snorkel and flapper charts have been posted many times. The difference is negligible on an otherwise stock bike. +/-1 hp throughout the rpm range. Without supporting modifications it's just noise.
SwitchbladeI think my next mod to the air box will be to cover the entire air box with that stick thermo blanket stuff. Try to insulate the air box from the heat of the engine .
Like this?
I did the bottom half of the air box today. Not sure I'll bother with the top which is pretty much getting enough cool air on it.
I don't see how removing the snorkle can cause water to enter the air box. The air box is under the tank, on top of the engine and behind the frame.It looks pretty protected to me besides where do you think the air for the flapper comes from if honda put the snorkle on the air box to keep out water wouldn't they have added one to the flapper as well?!
No water will enter the air box, mine has never had any water in it. It has been gone for almost 5 years..
There's no doubt that water enters the air box:
[image: post-14465-0-09562800-1408282732.jpg]
This photo was taken after a 9 day ride around Lake Superior that included gravel roads in the rain. The dirt and gravel dust covers the entire flapper shelf and snorkel innards and extended a bit around the inside of the lid of the air box. It's been cleaned which is why you only see the dirt in the not-easily-accessible parts.
After my ride around The Rock (Newfoundland) in 2012, I cleaned out fine gravel from around the air filter which was dragged in through the snorkel and de-flappered vent.
I'm sure Honda designed our bikes to handle some drops of water etc.
I went ahead and insulated the top of the air box too: [image: post-14465-0-59711600-1408286123.jpg]
I'm planning to get a dyno tune for my Power Commander 3 and this seemed like a cheap and easy mod to help get cooler and hence more dense air into the air box.
There are no expected gains until I get my custom dyno tune for my PC3. It does look nice and spaceship like. For now it goes on the list of cheap cosmetic mods.
Plastic doesn't retain heat quite like metal, not sure thermal wrapping helps much in this case maybe if it was a longer track, think our in box heat soak is minimized.
There are no expected gains until I get my custom dyno tune for my PC3. It does look nice and spaceship like. For now it goes on the list of cheap cosmetic mods.
+1
End of thread · 101 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 24 Aug 2017
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