My Vfr750 Fl Project With Rc51 Sp2 Front End.

A little over a month ago, I lent my quite pristine VFR I've had since 1993 to a young girl, feeling sorry for her as she's ran a bike for 8 years whilst living in Paris, but then hadn't had a bike for the last 2 years.

As she was thinking of what bike to get, I figured it would be good to let her try mine...

The bad news was she dropped it on the 2nd day - but was not only really sorry but totally cool and paid for new parts to replace those she's damaged.
The good news is she had even test ridden a new 800 but still liked mine enough to let me find a more affordable VFR - and I found her a near perfect '99 VFR800, but that's another story.

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For some time I'd been collecting parts to improve mine. It already had Maxton suspension and 6 piston Harrison front calipers & some other mods, but as I had an almost complete front end from an RC51 that I'd taken off my other bike when upgrading to higher performance parts, it seemed the right thing to use it to modernise the VFR's front end.

The RC51's forks had been re-worked by www,maxtonsuspension.co.uk already and I'd recently replaced the seals, oil, etc. Discs are 320mm stainless items from Braketech.

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I won't list all the other parts bought for this project, but suffice to say aside from RC51 original parts, there are carbon parts from Magical Racing (You'll see the products in more detail later), rear sets made for a CBR900, Arata Titanium exhaust silencer with high-level mid pipe, Tyga top triple clamp, etc.

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One RC51 owner & enthusiast kindly not only gave me his original SP1 lower triple (SP2 won't fit a VFR750), but also polished it to perfection. If that wasn't enough, he also gifted me new Honda bearings, seals and locking tab + the two lock rings. Matt - you're a legend my friend.

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This had arrived about a month ago, but I didn't want to use it for just a silly reason - but yesterday I finally opened the box...!

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Cool tool!

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Took about 20 minutes to assemble & work out how it works. So glad I bought this....

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This was the damaged side...

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With the help of the stand, the front end soon came off:

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I now have some Maxton re-worked original forks, Harrison billet 6-pot calipers with perfect fitting JLS hoses &* CBR1000F master cylinder...

Also have near new OEM discs - for sale.

If anybody is interested in these, PM me.

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Very sexy looking bits you have there! :beer:

A few notes on fitting an RC51 (SP1 l triples work with SP1 or SP2 forks).

The lock stops on the SP1 lower triple don't work on the VFR, so these need to be ground off....

Note the positioning of original VFR clip-ons and get as close as possible. (50mm size).

You can't use RC51 triples, so need to get some after market ones. Don't make the mistake I did - and get some which mount the controls too far forward and cause fouling to the fairing, etc...

I'll need to find something better.... I also plan to fit an RC51 kill switch (Same as the type HRC use on their race bikes) and instruments to the right hand controls.... But no rush.

I could take that MR fender off your hands if you ever get bored of it.......

Love your work. Gives me something to shoot for.

You have quite a few very tasty bits there... very nice. :beer:

The mirrors look quite nice.

Are you concerned at all about the tiny bore size of the CRF rear master?

I bored one out and inserted VFR piston on a project some time ago.

Thanks for the comments. MR stuff is exquisitely nice. I've had the same design of mirrors, fender, etc. on my RC51 for about 10 years now.... They work very well and look great too.

Interesting on the bore size of the CRF rear master.....I guess I could have it bored to size and use the VFR's piston. Good idea, that.

I'll see how much pedal travel there is, I guess - the rear disc is quite large on the VFR so I wouldn't want brakes that are too over-sensitive.

I may be buying a Brembo clutch master cylinder to match the front brake's (Found a used one for sale in perfect condition), but the bore size is slightly larger.... I could always fit a different slave cylinder if lever feel got too heavy, I guess...

Looking forward to fitting the exhaust tonight. :cool:

Very, very nice work! You're inspiring me...to finish making the bookcases in my study, and then finish the storage unit in the garage...and thus finally make some room to work on my FP!

I have all of the RC51 conversion parts already, including a set of Tommaselli adjustable clip-ons:

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I know you're going with Convertibars, but what are the ones you have now that don't work?

Cheers,

Thanks JZH. In a way you're inspiring me too.... I'll respond to your reply to my PM shortly; more on that later! :wink:

Like you, I got all the parts together I thought I needed - so I could do the conversion in one go, so it wasn't all that difficult. Duckhunter from the RC51 forum had kindly given me his lower triple and also polished it to perfection, but then also gave me a brand new lower bearing and a set of seals, lock rings, etc. He even had a Ti64 nut made for me after I'd gifted him with something else from Ti64. He's a cool dude.

The bars I have on there now (Driven risers) won't work for two reasons: They can only be located in front of the forks and that's too far forward in position both for riding and because they cause the bars to hit the top of the fairing.

Part of the reason is they're too high. The natural position is same as original VFR bars which mount at the sides, so that's what I'll be doing with the Convertibars. Not sure if I'll put the bar clamps under the top bridge, or above, but I'll start with under and see how well the bike steers, then adjust as necessary.

There are some other things which I hadn't thought of that you might want to also consider: With longer bars and the throttle further out than standard, the throttle cables get very tight on a right turn. Convertibars do a set of extended cables for $59.95 - Steve Mager who I dealt with there rides a VFR800 too and was very helpful. Unfortunately the don't do a longer choke cable, so I may need to buy a universal cable kit from Venhill in the UK if I can't find a longer one anywhere else... if anybody has any ideas, please feel free to chime in! :happy:

Like a guy who doesn't usually read the instructions - I didn't read up here on the thread about doing these conversions (there may be several!) but I didn't notice anything wrong with fitment when assembling. When I fit the convertibars I'm going to take the top bridge off again to double check the lock rings are actually tightening onto thread all the way (The stem on an SP1 is of solid aluminium as you probably know) but I believe they are.

The wiring for the horn also needs to be extended slightly, but that's hardly even worth mentioning, it's very easy to do!

OK, my wife's calling the family for breakfast, so I'd best go.... I'll be in touch about that rear end project. :goofy:

Some nice parts arrived today from Maxton Suspension in the UK.

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Unfortunately there seems to have been a mis-communication and the hose is too short with the reservoir body oriented in the wrong way (Would face towards the rear wheel as it is).
No big deal. I've emailed Maxton and should have a solution soon I hope.

Also received another shock & forks with new cartridges for a 2-stroke project I'm also slowly working on. Those parts are 100% perfect.

Also been in touch with JZH and learnt a fair bit about centre nut hub conversions and bought a Hawk's hub assembly to see just how much is interchangeable.
This morning I've e-mailed Dymag about a few ideas. Let's see what comes...

Not in a rush to finish, it can take as long as it needs - just want to make the best revision to this VFR750 I can.

TheStig

- just want to make the best revision to this VFR750 I can.

If that is what you are after,

sorry pal,

my redslut is not for sale :goofy:

Hahaha. Only "this" vfr. :happy:

Did a little more work on a public holiday last Monday and thought I'd post here to document the changes for anybody that may be interested in doing similar modifications to their's.

Difficult to find a high-level link pipe for the VFR, but I managed to get one from Predator in the UK (not the greatest quality or fit & very poor customer service, but after a bit of cutting & bending - it worked).
I was able to fit a full titanium silencer (at 1kg it weighs a fraction of what the link pipe does) made by Trickstar in Japan. Fortunately no modification to the silencer was needed at all.
Just waiting on a badge from them. I used some spare Akrapovic springs and clamp to secure the silencer to the mid pipe. I used a heat gun to bend the rear fender inward and a dremmel to cut a small section of the underside of the side panel. There's no interference at all and the silencer is well secured now.

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I got some CBR900RR rear sets from Ebay. They fit with a standard RC51 heel plate used to space a CRF250 rear master cylinder far enough that it clears the frame and is in the right position for the pivot pin.
I needed to find a suitable eye bolt & do a little cutting & drilling, but it all works fine now. Still awaiting a pressure switch / banjo bolt so I can remove the old master cylinder and fit the brake hose.

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Right side rear set also fitted without much drama. Just needed to make a suitable spacer to bring the rod out from the sprined shaft's pivot and also to allow the side stand cover to be retained (With just a little trimming off the top).
I will be putting flanged M6 nuts either side of the splined pivot to prevent twisting, but this is working fine now.

As a contingency plan I could still use the original shift lever if this doesn't last well - but would prefer the adjustability there is now. I have a couple of spare pivots in case this solution doesn't last well.
Also missing a left threaded lock nut, which I borrowed for a friend's RC51, but will source one from Honda.

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Fitted a set of convertibars and now there's no interference with the fairings at all. Positioning is pretty much same as original with wider bars. I'll adjust more later.
For now I've opted to keep the RC51's clutch master and a Brembo RCS 19 brake master. Still on the fence about fitting RC51 kill switch & starter with race style throttle, or leaving with original right side switch gear.

If I change, I'd lose the ability to switch lights on and off. Not something I use usually but if the battery gets flat this is useful. I suppose I could always pull a fuse for the lights in case of emergency.

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Still haven't fitted brake lines for the front. I wanted to get the handlebars sorted first, so I can decide on exact routing and line lengths, then buy the components to make them...
That should come soon.
I've used the original cables which just fit. Longer ones I received from convertibars are of the wrong dimensions & lengths and could never work on a VFR, maybe there's something they can do.

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I've also bought an NSR250 MC28 swing arm assembly for $200. The eccentric assembly is of same dimensions as the VFR and the brake rotor mounts are same too. Some research shows that the sprocket carrier size is same as an RC30's; in fact pretty much everything is of same dimensions as RC30, except the spacer, which is same as NC30/35, etc. As it's the same sprocket carrier size as the RC30's - this means getting 530 sprockets shouldn't be too difficult, even off the shelf here in Japan. I'm keen to lose the ugly cush drive housing. As RC30, RC45 & NR750 didn't have a cush drive, the VFR doesn't really need it either...

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I've also possibly located an underslung kit from Tyga which I can use with parts from the MC28 assembly, in combination with the original VFR750 swing arm &some minor modification. Assuming I'm right, then I'll be able to replace the rear caliper with a muhc prettier gold Brembo 84mm P4 unit.

So once this assembly arrives and I find some time, I'll do some tinkering to see if it will all work in harmony.

I've also been in touch with Dymag and they can make wheels to fit the MC28 hub, so a set of these CA5's will be on the cards in a few months.

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Assuming this all comes together, I'll be asking a machinist friend to make me a few small parts including a titanium spacer & shaft lock nuts for the MC28 hub.

Very nice work.

I suppose you already know that you can replace the downpipes and bigass collector box with the tubular system from the '94-'97 VFR750??

You'll shed some weight by eliminating the bigass collector, and also wont see the ugly bolted flange that is now not connected to anything in particular.

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes - I know it's possible, but as I replaced the collectors not too long ago with a good used set I figured I'd keep them on. Also - doing away with the collector would also mean losing the red covers either side, since there would be nothing for them to bolt onto - they help retain the flow of the bodywork, so I prefer to keep than lose 'em.

For Japanese legality the exhaust needs to be returned to standard every 2 years for inspection - so this makes it really easy... Just need to slide the original gasket back on and bolt the original exhaust back up.

I have a set of used stainless headers with a high level exhaust off a 94-97 model, but for these reasons didn't use them in the end... Will probably try & sell them when I get around to it. :happy:

OIC

that makes sense then.

My other bike has a full titanium system - which is a pain. Every 2 years I have to take it off, replace with the original full exhaust, then - after inspection's completed, take that off again and fit the Akrapovic back on...

So this bike needed to be easiest possible to make standard as far as the exhaust goes. They're funny here - if there's no Honda manufacturer's stamp & numbers it fails. Total waste of time, as so many people have after market exhausts too in Japan. Just a hurdle. Rant over. :sleep:

Decided to check the 3rd gen boards since I havent been on in awhile and am glad to have found this thread. Your addressing every shortcoming I have been hoping to fix on my 93 VFR.

Did a bit more work on the bike Saturday morning... She now runs again.

Fitted a TSR clutch slave cylinder from a CBR1000, I bought used. Clutch feel & weight is good now.

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Took the old right side electrical controls off and replaced with those from an RC51, with some soldering. These are the same kill switch as used on HRC bikes so I thought I may as well use one too.
Used a stiff pair of pliers as a heat sink to keep shrink wrap from getting hot.

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Soldering & shrink wrap all done.

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Also fitted a CBR1000 throttle. Just awaiting some slightly longer new throttle cables from convertibars, as those I received were too long. Their service & backup has been great.
The bars are very good too, just want to do some final adjustment to get them exactly in the best position for me.

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I went and bought some new Goodridge brake lines for the front and fitted them. Took the bike around the block a couple of times and it feels fine. Just don't want to ride much with cables that jam the throttle when stretched from being too short. That'll be resolved soon enough but I wasn't tempted to go on a ride, no time either.

The smaller bore rear brake master cylinder (CRF250) works OK. Slightly longer travel than original, but the intention is to mate it to a Brembo M4 caliper (In underslung position) in the future. It should work fine with that as my original (larger bore) rear master on the RC51 has virtually no travel before the pads bite.

It's coming together well. I'll take it for a ride before Wednesday if I get a chance (& the cables arrive by then) otherwise it'll have to wait till after we get back from holiday.

Nice!

That TSR slave cylinder is like $275

ouch.

It'll always be worth close to that... if I ever wanted to sell it, I'd get my money back. Not a bad investment, I think. :happy:

How's this coming along?

Update Miguel, update!!

Love your threads. What took you to Japan if I may ask? Just spent 6 weeks in Tokyo this past Summer. Incredible country.

Sorry for the delay responding guys. Bike is now running with it's new GP10 Maxton shock fitted. Haven't had much time (or motivation TBH!) to work on it over the winter months, so I just ride it on erands from time to time... Suspension seems good & the (Maxton) reworked SP2 forks work well, but have found their thicker girth compared to standard non u/d forks does reduce the steering lock somewhat. Not a problem for steering the bike, even on tight turns - but when in a parking spot there's more shiffling back & fourth than before. I can live with it I guess.

I do find it pops a bit on the over run with throttle closed, but doesn't do it if I add a little bit of choke, so I'll change the plugs sometime and undo the pilot jets a bit. I think that'll fix it. It's not an exhaust leak as I checked that first... besides, it recently had all new gaskets, plus high level exhaust.

Part of the reason for not updating is I've been concentrating on another project, mostly accumulating parts, which is a '97 Doohan GP replica NSR250. Just ordered a set of Dymag CA5 carbon wheels for it, so once I do the single nut conversion for it I'll put the CA5 from the NSR on there together with the RC51 SP2's front CA5 wheel to see what it feels like on the VFR. If I like it, then I'll order a 3rd set of CA5's for it, but does seem a bit like overkill for a bike this heavy & old.

Have seen a nice 6 inch RVF750 wheel for sale which I could buy instead, but these things are so expensive I'm not sure at this stage. Best I make sure I can do the single nut conversion sometime. For now I bought a Thurn single nut cover from Ebay in Germany last week (brand new!) which I might fit for now to make the rear wheel a bit more presentable. The other idea is to use the VFR' 5.5 rear wheel with a 3mm spacer on the NSR250 single sided swingarm, with a 4 stud conversion & said Thurn cover. That way I could paint wheels orange to go with the Repsol colours on that bike. Just different options so I don't waste the original rear wheel, which would look nice on the NSR250... but is a bit heavy for such a light bike.

paladinreed

Love your threads. What took you to Japan if I may ask? Just spent 6 weeks in Tokyo this past Summer. Incredible country.

Summer's tough in Tokyo - hot & humid! :wacko: I prefer the cooler seasons to be in the city but don't go there much these days. Prefer the peace and quiet of the countryside.

I came here in 1998 to start a business in my other passion, Japanese sports cars which was a success & continues to this day....
Had meant to stay 6 months, but found I really liked it here, so I never went back to the UK.
Fell in love with wife, had kids, etc... Japan is home to us, really.

Giz a job, Miguel!

Hey thanks for all the tips for visiting Japan Miguel... had a mind-blowing time over there... did Tokyo, Kyoto and Hiroshima... up into the mountains to a sublime Onsen on the Banks of a wild river surrounded by virgin forest... amazing place, so unique.

Auspanglish, what a coincidence - those are the EXACT places we're going! Can't wait, leaving on 27th March for two weeks :)

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Summer's tough in Tokyo - hot & humid! :wacko: I prefer the cooler seasons to be in the city but don't go there much these days. Prefer the peace and quiet of the countryside.

I came here in 1998 to start a business in my other passion, Japanese sports cars which was a success & continues to this day....

Had meant to stay 6 months, but found I really liked it here, so I never went back to the UK.

Fell in love with wife, had kids, etc... Japan is home to us, really.

I disagree but I come from a different climate altogether. Japanese summers are very mild in my opinion haha and while I did spend most of my time in the city I did get an opportunity to spend some time in Yamanashi which was lovely. The peaches are the best I've ever had.

What is the nature of your auto business? I saw that you are into vintage BMW as am I and I admire the Japanese aesthetic. Particularly this man's.

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When one spoiler just isn't enough

Glad to hear you had fun in Japan, Auspanglish - most people who visit love it here.

John, if you can find the time in your schedule - take a ferry ride from Kobe to Shodoshima, which is known for it's olives trees (It's where my wife grew up). Some lovely roads around the perimeter of the island & to the highest point there, very scenic and quiet with deserted beaches, etc. Water will be cold in April, though!

Paladinreed, we export high quality Japanese & some European performance cars (1990's classics nowadays, mostly) and performance parts worldwide. Fast bikes & cars are a passion for me, but older stuff really - Not much into newer machines laiden with electronics.

johnlondon

Auspanglish, what a coincidence - those are the EXACT places we're going! Can't wait, leaving on 27th March for two weeks :)

I don't want to implant any "unwelcome" ideas in your head, but when I had a few days in Japan a couple of years ago I rented a CB750F for a couple of days from these guys... I brought my own gear, but I believe they rent kit as well (assuming you don't want to empty your bank account at a NAP'S or Ricoland, that is). :wink:

Ciao,

Yeah I would have loved to rent a bike but the significant other is just too scared to get on a motorcycle these days... she was taken down twice by cages as a pillion in her twenties before I met her. Shame because Miguel went to the trouble to describe a route around Mt Fuji for me. Maybe one day, when I get divorced, I mean when I retire... hehehe.

John London, get yourself a JR Railpass BEFORE you get there... it's only available for foreigners and must be purchased from outside Japan prior to arrival... JR RAIL... look it up on the net and you'll find a distributor real quick, they send the pass to you by mail quicksmart... you will save heaps... we took the bullet trains between major cities and we went to Hiroshima on a whim in one day; the evening before we figured the bullet trains would make it an easy one day option from Kyoto... got up early came back late. These things fly!!

You will still have to get the odd metro day pass for stuff not covered by the JR Pass.

We had some real authentic experiences... first day lunch at a sushi bar... middle-class shopping arcade in Kamata... this long grey-haired dude in a Hawaian shirt struck up a conversation... he with his 4-word English and me with my 4-word Japanese... lots of sign language... next thing the waiter places a flask of ice-cold sake in front of me... I was being shouted by my new acquaintance... lucky I had read up on Japanese etiquette and indicated to the waiter to place a glass in front of my newfound friend... I filled his glass up and left the flask on the bench as if not partaking... he duly picked up the flask and filled my glass... I filled my GF's glass and we toasted to international peace!! Several flasks later we parted as best ever lifelong friends!!

(It is considered bad manners to fill your own glass).

PD: A quick tip: take a regular handheld compass... it's amazing how that helped me find our way around... download all the maps and stuff you can find to check off-line on your Smartphone... wifi is not all that useful/available despite our preconceived ideas about Japan and technology. Even inside som of the megahuge train/metro stations the compass came in Handy. Brush up on your orienteering skills and you'll get more out of your trip. Unless of course you speak Japanese as they go out of their way to help you.

A compass is a good idea, but as John's other half is Japanese - not sure he'll be as lucky with getting free sake as you, Auspanglish! :happy:

John, whilst I remember, there is a great place in Tokyo to rent bikes. http://www.fukuda-motors.co.jp/
The bikes they offer for rent are actually meant to be demonstrators, but about 10 years ago before I bought myself a bike here I rented several fantastic machines from these guys, from the latest Ducati & MV Augusta to Guzzi and others. Some had barely been ridden. I forget how much it was, maybe 10,000 - 15,000 Yen per day, but it about covered the cost of tyre wear, I think!
They have a beautiful showroom & offer a great service and even some excellent coffee whilst filling in the paperwork. Don't forget to bring an International Licence if you want to rent any vehicle though - without you won't be able to.

Riding in the Spring is a lovely time to enjoy cherry blossoms so if you can, then do it - do, although you'd need to bring gear as it's pretty cold especially up in the mountains. Check your airline, as most offer the option of bringing a bag of sports equipment at either no extra charge or something like £15-£25. Might be worth it....

As for Sushi, what I always recommend is any of the "Sushi Zanmai" restaurants in Ginza's Tsukiji market. Tsukiji's sushi is about the best there is aside from small restaurants at Hokkaido's fish market, which are even better!

Enjoy. :cheerleader:

Oh sweet! All over that, thanks for the heads up mate :)

Took the VFR out for a ride on a sunny day today and it ran great. Saw a little shrine on the way to town, so I stopped and shot a few pics. Spring is just about here, at last!

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New Maxton GP10 shock is working well, it seems. Bike was confidence inspiring with handling & braking.

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Exhaust sounds nice with the titanium silencer too. A few pops on the over-run, I think I may need to change the rubber inlet tubes for new ones as they may be leaking air.
May as well change the plugs too whilst I'm at it and adjust the carbs if needed, but aside from the backfiring, she's running strongly.

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Happy days!

Very nice indeed; the rear mudguard would benefit from a swipe with a katana though... HAI !!!!!!! :goofy:

It that flip-up numberplate operable via a switch so you avoid speed camera's????? :unsure:

Bring on the sakura!! :beer:

Thanks Dutchy.

TBH I never really liked shortened mudguards on these VFRs.... in dirty muddy UK conditions it always worked well, they look kinda funny shortened, to me....

As for the number plate position, I don't get hassled by the police for it here (It's not an offence that carries a fine, at worst they can ask that the plate be placed in a visible position :happy: ).

so I may as well leave it in such a position they can still read if the bike is on it's back wheel only...., which I refrain from doing as it's anti-social. :491:

BTW Dutchy, I found a Thurn wheel cover like your's on Ebay in Germany the other day, so I bought it sharpish. Still got to paint it sometime though, but then I might put on some carbon wheels, so I might not use it after all... we'll see. It's fine as is for now, I think. Want to enjoy the VFR again this summer.

OMG your Front-End is BEAUTYFULL!

Did you paint your rear weehl or is it this perfekt? Also love the blacked out blinkers, what i personally would buy would be a seat cover.

But in general it is a piece of art.

One question coud you give me a closer shot of your external reservoir from your rear shock? I got one to and need a good place to mount.

Nice greetings from Austria (near germany) if you need infos from this part of the world.

Thanks.

You can't see how I mounted it even in a closer picture. Basically I attached an L shaped bracket to the foot peg's top (horizontal) edge, then a little lower than the peg a short bolt goes through the bracket & attaches to the c-cup, which cradles the remote reservoir. You need a C-cup the size of the remote adjuster to make this work, with a female thread on the. centre, to which a bolt can attach.

SKZBadHabit

OMG your Front-End is BEAUTYFULL!

Did you paint your rear weehl or is it this perfekt? Also love the blacked out blinkers, what i personally would buy would be a seat cover.

But in general it is a piece of art.

One question coud you give me a closer shot of your external reservoir from your rear shock? I got one to and need a good place to mount.

Nice greetings from Austria (near germany) if you need infos from this part of the world.

Great looking bike!

I picked up a rare but very good condition RC45 17 x 6.0 rear wheel yesterday here in Japan. Getting closer to my plan to make the rear a centre lock hub similar to the RC30 & 45.
Once I complete the conversion, which may be a few months from now, or more - I will be selling my existing silver wheel. I also have a brand new unused Thurn single nut wheel cover that I'll be selling around the same time....

I guess the idea of fitting carbon wheels to the VFR isn't going to happen after all, but I really like the multi-spoke orignal Honda design and couldn't resist a good deal!

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Nice find!

Every time I see an update of one of your threads it reminds me of how much I would love to live and operate in Japan! What a fabulous country but my opportunities there were limited despite speaking a decent amount of Japanese and being very well travelled throughout east and southeast Asia. Japan is certainly in for some big changes in the near future. Maybe I'll be able to make the 2020 Olympics...

As always, the toys look great Stig!

Gorgeous mate. I didn't bother hiring a bike as the weather was very hit and miss. Still, I saw a lot of Tokyo, Kyoto and Hiroshima and a tonne of the surrounding areas on the trains and subway. I'll be going back next year/year after anyway during a hotter season so will definitely be doing it then!

After tinkering with it a little more on Sunday and fixing a problem with no power getting to the fuel & temp gauges, I took the VFR on a nice fast ride to meet up with some friends yesterday afternoon, about 150 miles in all.
Biggest change I noticed came from lowering the handlebars. They're a little lower than standard now but the riding stance with the rearset positioning used works well now. I might lower the forks another cm, to improve steering speed a tad, but I found I could flick it from one side to another through tight chicanes faster with the bars in a better position now and I was less buffeted by wind. Suspension control seems very good too.

The CRF rear master cylinder works OK now... still a fair bit of travel, so I've bought a CBR900 rear master cylinder which I'll screw a billet reservoir onto directly once it arrives.
LED's for instrument lighting & warning lights work much better than standard.

Bike could sit at an indicated 145 mph creeping up to 147 along stretches of empty tarmac. It's running well for a 25 year old machine.

They're very quick bikes given the low bhp and cathedral weight, it surprises me how quick it shimmies along! Would like to see the changes to your dash lights as mine are green and dull as hell

The VFR is still sitting under the gatehouse, awaiting a wash & lube before I put it away, so when it gets dark tonight I'll shoot a pic of the dash at night for you John. Every bulb has been replaced with an LED type.

Important to test them all incl. warning lights (Use an old blanket in daytime. Don't ask me how I know... :sleep:

Brakes & handling make a bike quicker point to point than power alone. :wink:

Remembering the ride 2 days ago, I've been thinking about why the bike's steering response has improved just from lowering the handlebar height and adjusting the levers to point further downward and what more can be done to improve the handling.

When I first fitted Maxton re-worked forks and a new shock to the rear, the ride instantly felt much firmer at slower speeds, but would really smooth out the faster I went. The front became more communicative from a raised rear end and this was confirmed by ground clearance. The Hero blobs still got worn to an angle, despite the raised height, but most importantly the steering became much more responsive and the bike could be dropped between corners or flick through S's a lot more easily and with greater accuracy compared to standard. Wallow was gone from fast long sweeping corners.

The recent (Also reworked by Maxton) RC51 front end's given the bike a more controlled front end and I can tell by the way both ends absorb bumps with equal travel so the bike stays level as it passes over them that the settings are good. The GP10 rear shock's spring rate feels perfectly matched to the fork's springs.
The 320mm front discs now allow for much more controlled hard braking compared to original diameter discs. The more pressure we need to apply to brake hard, the less control we have to a simplified extent. More braking confidence, but with harder braking comes more dive, so I think I may add some preload and increase damping accordingly just enough to reduce dive, if I can... also adjusting the rear so it continues to respond equally over bumps so the bike doesn't pitch as it passes over them.

With the (convertibar kit set too high I found I couldn't comfortably drop my elbow and lean forward & down to push weight toward the front entering and negotiating corners, so the accuracy of where I could place the bike suffered and thereby the confidence with which I could enter corners. The SP2 from which the front end was donated is about the same weight (it's been on a glutinous diet of carbon & titanium to lose 20 kg or so) as the VFR, but has a steeper steering rake, much higher rear and it's chassis is designed to have considerably more front weight bias than the VFR, complete with clip ons that angle downward more. It's a much sweeter handling and greater confidence inspiring bike than the VFR (When introducing another friend to his SP2 here, we found it also really helped him to ride like his upper body is like a sack of potatoes (Colin Edwards once said this, which is probably why I like the analogy...).

So my focus is on making the VFR as close as I can to being as close as possible to the RC51 in terms of inspiration of confidence.
This points towards putting more weight forward and this can be easily achieved by dropping the forks a bit more and maybe angle the clip ons downward a bit more too.... A job to be done sometime soon, when I get another chance to tinker. If not enough I may have to get some different dog bones for the rear suspension to raise it a little bit. The VFR isn't known to wag it's bars violently, but I don't mind a little wobble when exiting corners. If that happens, it's best to let it sort itself out, but it's not alarming. To me it's the front communicating that it's not got a lot of weight on it..
The CBR900 fitment rearsets are set considerably higher than standard, so this also sets the riding position with more rider weight shifted toward the front. I do find a little bit more weight on my wrists than before at slower speeds, but it's not significant. At speed the bike is still totally comfortable and I'm out of the wind or turbulence. I didn't feel any arm or hand fatigue when I rode the other day.

I'm finding it's good to have this much geometry adjustment including the multi adjustable bars, which I've come to understand is important for a front end conversion like this.
The bike can be set just right for me, but it has to be done slowly & with thought.

[EDIT] - I forgot to add, the throttle housing is also off an RC51 and as I use one on the SP2, I find I'm missing having an HRC 1/6 throttle tube which allows for quicker throttle & less wrist rotation when braking and rev matching for corners. The standard sized throttle tube requires more forearm movement than is really necessary currently.
So I've ordered some Renthal grips, which I'll also be fitting. I hope the throttle cables are long enough or I'll have to make a new one...

Thinking of other improvements, the rearsets have given the gear change a completely different feel of accuracy & precision than the standard lever & footpegs never could. They were just a cheap set from Ebay made in China, but they're proving to have been a good choice. Not usually into buying cheap stuff like this and risking poor quality & design, but I didn't know for sure how the rearsets would work and there wasn't much inexpensive choice out there. This time Ebay came through.

I I'll report back when I've done a bit more...

Clocks with / without warning lights on. The indicators are a lot easier to see, even in daylight too. My clock is re-setting, so there seems to be a problem with the permanent power feed from the battery. Another job to do next time I'm in there... for now it can work as a stopwatch. :cool:

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First of all you have done an extremly good job with your bike love your wonderfull work on details!

With your front suspension for getting it harder for breaking, my opinion is not to tinker with the preload (my informations on the preload is that you only change the ride height (SAG) it nearly doesnt change much in meaning to "harder" or "softer")

By the way what SAG do you have in front and rear?

I myself had an fully new built front end (Cartridge in the originaly forks) and a suited Hyperpro Shock in the rear suited and configured for my RC36/l.

I'm not an suspension guru just wanting to help you.

Late model Yamaha R6's use 1/6 turn throttle tubes. It'll have to be trimmed down to fit within the throttle housing you're using, but you'll get the same end result as using an official HRC throttle tube.

Thanks guys, for your input.

Have heard mention before of R6 throttle tubes before - but the recommendation & intent is appreciated.

I already have the HRC throttle tube which was cheap to buy new on Ebay (£29 or so) but it isn't compatible with the current Rizoma grips as these include an integrated throttle tube. TBH I'm not fond of the feel of the Rizoma grips. There's too much metal to be gripping & I prefer soft silicone Renthals which have also been ordered. The Rizoma bar ends will go as well. Subtle functional changes that affect styling too, I guess.

The suspension is currently on Maxton's recommended settings, albeit with fork specs for an SP2, but that's of similar weight...My experience of Maxton's settings on other bikes has been that they're nigh spot on with the recommended settings incl. initial sag. They use shock dynos to work out settings and know their noodles.
But I'm no suspension guru either, although I was fortunate to have learnt a lot from Maxton, having interviewed Ron Williams (A long time ago before he retired) and he kindly spent time explaining to me what a bike's suspension did & how. So by knowing the theory it's possible to understand how to improve a bike's suspension. Since that experience I've been fairly good at setting up car race chassis for endurance spec (Our Honda won the 2010 Japanese Ebisu Championship) and we fortunately had a Nissan suspension engineer as one of the drivers who also taught me a fair bit as we developed our car. Lots of experience from working on many different cars & racing them over the years too. The workings of car coilovers and changing handling characteristics aren't too dissimilar to a bike's shocks & forks...
Maybe bikes are more sensitive. It won't hurt to experiment and see what improvements can be made from adjustment based on feel. On cars if we increase preload the ride height will go up and damping both for compression and rebound will usually need to be increased to suit - if previously the suspension was otherwise absorbing bumps effectively and with the same travel as the rear (So there's no pitching). Having said this, on another SP2 with standard spring rates, increasing preload from mid to full (Forks were travelling full - with hard braking over bumps) made not a lot of difference to maximum fork travel, so I'm not expecting any huge changes adjusting mine. What can make suspension "feel" harder / softer is the damping. But by making suspension say full hard it also makes the shock absorption slower / lazier which isn't desirable unless we are hitting these bumps with a lot more energy (faster). What we want is the same movement of the forks / swing arm in terms of speed of response (in each direction independently adjusted) and deflection with oscillations of the spring kept to a minimum, but we don't want to make the suspension too damped, as this will cause the bike to hop over bumps rather than absorb them, meaning the tyre doesn't offer maximum grip thereof.
Original settings are noted with Maxton's printed info, so it will be easy to return to standard settings if desired.

The bike was stonkingly good when I had the first Maxton suspension work done (Standard forks revalved & re-sprung & basic shock with no remote reservoir, both set up specifically for my weight, etc).With that setup I've fond memories of embarassing Fireblades and R1's on roads I knew well, as it could steer quicker flicking in & out of roundabouts for example and also had much better control over long sweepers where the other bikes would start to visibly wallow when really leant over. Chalk & cheese compared to standard VFR suspension which was soft & wallowy. So my aim is to get that kind of confidence in the chassis I had in the UK. There's lots of adjustment to play with & I hope to make it as perfect as possible with the recent parts fitted. The exhaust shields wouldbe the first thing to touch now, which is a fair way over - Hopefully it won't happen again as Japanese roads are typically smoother and better surfaced than the UK's. It won't be as good as the SP2, as the c of g of the chassis is further back, but it should still become better than it is now. I There's room for improvement yet. :wink:

LED's look good, do they need to be soldered in?

Also, the Maxton forks, did you have them sat in the standard position in the triple or did you drop the front a bit?

LED's just push fit, just like the originals. Being LED's they must be in the correct polarity - as I said, check they each work. Also be careful not to miss any...

Maxton forks. I think the front was dropped down about 5mm from standard & with the (Maxton) shock I had on the bike it was dropped a little at the front and raised a bit at the rear. Steering was faster than standard.
With forks only you won't notice much difference I expect.

BTW - the shock is shortly arriving to the UK if you change your mind. :wink:

Recently got a box of goodies from Thurn Motorsport, including LED tail & indicators, LED bulbs for the front smoked indicators, an oil drain valve & a suspension linkage to raise the rear around 15mm. 
The RC51 forks (Maxton - revalved & re-sprung) work great with the GP10 rear shock - but the front was a little too high & made the bike feel less confidence inspiring to push the front. Now it's planted and confidence inspiring to throw around. It handles better than ever...
After test riding it I found I didn't even need to adjust the forks in the clamps. Maybe I'll tweak the suspension a little more, but I'm pleased with how it's turned out.

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I took it for a 300 mile ride last Friday when seeing a friend for an afternoon. Perfect weather & nice roads too.
 

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Jealous........   

Beautiful third gen. :beer:

Stunning! Makes me miss my '90 👍

2014 at 7:20 AM, TheStig, July 6

A few notes on fitting an RC51 (SP1 l triples work with SP1 or SP2 forks).

The lock stops on the SP1 lower triple don't work on the VFR, so these need to be ground off....

Note the positioning of original VFR clip-ons and get as close as possible. (50mm size).

You can't use RC51 triples, so need to get some after market ones. Don't make the mistake I did - and get some which mount the controls too far forward and cause fouling to the fairing, etc...

I'll need to find something better.... I also plan to fit an RC51 kill switch (Same as the type HRC use on their race bikes) and instruments to the right hand controls.... But no rush.

I am mounting the RC51 front end to my 1991 VFR750F and have found that the Triple clamps work fine. I machined off the the fork stops off the RC51 lower. The top bearings are identical (Same PN even) The Lower bearing are the same outside diameter, so I used the bearing for the RC510 I just shimmed the Bearing 2mm. I shamed the top locking nut to make it top it off flush with the top of the steering tube. I have Heli-Bar style clamp-ons (2.5 inch rise) and they do not hit the tank. I am using a complete RC51 front end, so the wheel and brakes are stock SP1 hardware. 

I have a couple things that I need to ask.  What exactly did you do to move the oil cooler up and and the oil lines "out" to clear the 51mm fork tubes on the RC51 forks?  Did you have a problem with the fairing cage?  The fork tubes hit the inside of the cage on my bike. I am Leary of heating and bending out for fear of moving the actual fairing too much away from the frame. What did you do make more clearance? 

What did you do with regard to the fork stops?  I was going to drill holes in the lower clamp and and use bolts against the frame as for stops.  I am open to other suggestions. 

Tia for any help to resolve these issues in my build. 

Respectfully,

David Matthew

Note: The photo of me on the bike is with the stock (chromed) front forks and wheel while The "completed RC51 front end" view is photoshop. I will be using this Carbon Fibre fender which I added purple pearl in the first few layers of clear coat. It will match the Carbon Fibre Rear Hugger Fender in that regard. I will be using this VFR800F rear rim. The other photos are what I have mocked up at this time.

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Wow. Dave Matthew... there's a blast from the past. I was active on the 'big list' from 1998 or so, I remember you and the bike well. And the 'big list' is still going - as a Google Group - with a surprising number of original members...

> To post to this group, send email to vfr-list@googlegroups.com.

Regards

Murray

Formerly of Sydney, Australia

Hi Dave,

Below is the only photo I could find of the oil cooler - but I moved it up, basically - I forget how exactly, but it wasn't difficult. I moved the horn as well.
The frame for the top cowl - I cut off as much as I could and those corners that protrude out - have become the lock-stops. I put some strong plastic sheet around the fork legs with zip ties for protection.
With forks this size the steering lock is much reduced, but for me this is only a problem when moving the bike around upright - say when pushing to turn it around on our driveway. Feels a bit like an older Ducati in that sense.

Once on the move, to steer the bike it's just leaning it over, there's not much actual turning of the bars - so even on tight twisty roads it's fine.
At slow speeds, say finding a spot in a car park I'm just careful not to turn full lock and lose balance with my feet on the pegs.
Anyways, I've had no problems with it.

Like you, I used SP1 lower triples, but for anybody thinking of doing the same conversion note the stem diameter on SP2's is larger and won't fit! 

My original forks had been re-worked by Maxton for my RC51 and the may have been marginally shorter than standard - but even then they were still longer than my standard VFR forks (which had also been re valved & re-sprung by Maxton some 20 years ago).
I found that I didn't really feel totally confident throwing it into corners before, it felt as if the front might push and as it was otherwise very stable. So I figured raising the rear was the way to go (It had been a good way to tune the chassis on an RC51 as well, which was where I learnt this). I was right! Taking it for along day's ride recently, it felt perfect - fast steering, no instability, even when accelerating hard over bumpy roads, not even a whiff of the bars wagging. It would track accurately allowing me to place it where I wanted and to flick the bike - it responded fast too (longer bars can help a little with this too).

Although I don't want to start measuring rake, trial, etc. I can take some simple measurements of ride heights of front & rear sometime, when you're ready - but I would recommend getting the shorter dog bone linkage from Gerhard at Thurn Motorsport ordered to avoid having the forks too high in the clamps.  Mine took him a couple of months to produce. It can be fitted without taking out the shock, only the exhaust heat shields need come off.
It'll also give more ground clearance for cornering, something the original wasn't great for. With a good quality rear shock, the bike handles very well for a VFR so ground clearance, especially if using solid (as opposed to hinged) rearsets. You don't want to be riding too low and scratching your exhaust heat shields when cornering with enthusiasm! 

I found it important to also set the bars absolutely as comfortably as possible and Convertibars worked perfectly as they allow any position. They can also supply longer throttle cables if needed (except for choke - but the original can be used if routed in a straighter path). 
As you've got some parts from a spares RC51, try to get the original throttle & RH electrics, then fit an HRC quick throttle kit inside. It's a lot nicer than the standard VFR's required wrist travel. I'd also recommend rearsets from a CBR900. The ones I have were from an Ebay seller from China (They were the best I could find!), but work fine. Gear change is especially accurate - a lot less missed 2nd gear shifts....  

I'm waiting on a Factory Pro shift star kit, which should make the shift feel & quality better than new, but no rush... it's fine for now. 

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So there's something more interesting to look at than a VFR oil cooler above, here's a couple of pics of my RC51 whose front end found it's way onto my Viffer (Pics taken last week after fitting new tyres, servicing, etc).
No prizes for guessing which is more fun - but the VFR isn't lagging far behind in pulling at my heart strings and that says a lot for what a great bike it still is after 23 years of ownership. It'll always be the bike I owned the longest and did the most mileage on. :)

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Who could forget that rear wheel?  :tongue:

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As for the USD fork conversion, this is with a VFR1200 triple clamps (35mm offset vs 30mm offset for SP1), but on my 3rd gen the fork tubes hit these bosses on the frame without additional steering stops:

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Ciao,

JZH, once you put the top cowl's frame on, the forks will no longer hit the bosses on your frame... they'll hit the top cowl's frame instead. 

Dave, here's a picture of how the oil cooler sits. I think I may have moved it forward and slightly upward - I can't really recall. The forks get close but don't touch it at all on full lock. The lines are spread away from the forks and secured by the plastic radiator shroud, etc. No problems! 

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TheStig, 6/25/2016 at 3:25 AM

JZH, once you put the top cowl's frame on, the forks will no longer hit the bosses on your frame... they'll hit the top cowl's frame instead. 

Yep, as you said.  But, not any more!

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More about how I cleared the fairing stay in my VFR1200 front end thread.

Ciao,