New Vfr800's Not Selling Very Well

I am wondering why this great bike is not selling very well. there are 189 '14's on cycletrader, not to mention the '15's.

Just my opinion but VFRs have never been big sellers in the US.  Seems most buyers want a cruiser or traditional I4 (CBR, GSXR, R1/R6, etc).  That makes the VFR a niche.  Incidentally, that is why I bought one 13 years ago - I wanted something different.  On top of that the VFR pricing doesn't help.  I think the 8th gen is likely a fantastic machine and would fit my needs and wants perfectly but unfortunately, it isn't much different than my 2002 so I see no sense in trading 'up' to the 8th gen, even if deeply discounted.  All that said, I do hope lackluster sales do not spell the end of the VFR for good - would be a shame.

 All that said, I do hope lackluster sales do not spell the end of the VFR for good - would be a shame.

Agreed.

But the price is rather high, and right there with a new aprilia Tuono V4.

I haven't tried one myself, yet. But the older V twin models are ripping great machines.

There's plenty of other competition too.

But, I still plan to ride the VFR cross country this year.

I suspect in this country at least, more people are riding relatively short rides for fun,

than longer rides for travel, or also just fun. Hence the popularity of gixxers and the like.

Cheap, fast, fun, torture rack. :wink:

Well, it is just a redressed 6th gen for a hell of a lot more money. I don't blame people for not buying it in droves. That engine was designed in the late 90's, same with the frame. I mean, there are somethings you are allowed to reuse but that is going to far. I bet if someone found an 8th gen that was rearended, they could pick it up cheap and swap over everything onto their 6th gen. Boom, instant 8 gen update.

Don't get me wrong, I think they are beautiful bikes. But this is a parts bin bike and people know it.

Past week I've seen more than a dozen, out on the street.

I've still not seen one, and that includes TMac! The US is a totally different market than Europe.

I'm surprised to see any Gen out on the street, really. 

Past week I've seen more than a dozen, out on the street.

I've still not seen one, and that includes TMac! The US is a totally different market than Europe.
I'm surprised to see any Gen out on the street, really.

Seen several around my area in both red & white. Sure do get a lot of good comments and looks when parked.

I've seen just one in the wild, and that was the '14 Honda demo bike at the PNW Oregon Trail meet last year. 

I've seen a handful of 8th Gens, meanwhile I've still only ever seen one 7th Gen... and it's been on sale here more than twice as long as the 8th.

my local dealer has 2 on floor..  nice looking, but pricey for a re-dressed vtec

I have seen the 8th gens for sale as cheap as $9,000 here in Ohio. I've seen only 2 in person. The red and white are pretty. But I think the black one loses too many subtle details. At least in the pictures I've seen. 

Oddly enough, I have seen 2 other 7th gens recently. I never saw one around here until I bought mine and believe me, I was looking! 

Yamaha FZ-09 is selling WELL...that might be the reason...

It would be interesting to see Honda put the 1200 v4 into the 8th gen chassis.  The 1200cc v4 engine is physically smaller than the 800 VTEC as I understand it and honda would certainly have the engineering prowess to make it happen.

Win win--the new motor with the good looking 8th GEN bike :cheerleader:   

Maybe House could do it as part of modithon version 3 :)

I've seen a few in my travels, including showing up at my dealer's for service.  I bought it to do distance and I am not disappointed.

 The 1200cc v4 engine is physically smaller than the 800 VTEC as I understand it

How is that even possible? :unsure:

This from cycle world 2010 issue:

"The press materials make much of the new engine, from itsCRF450R-inspired sohc heads (for compactness) to pairing the rear cylinders, and therefore their rod journals,betweenthose of the front on the crankshaft, making the engine more narrow between the rider’s legs and eliminating the vibration-producing right/left rocking couple of a conventional V-Four crank layout.

But while the 1237cc engine is claimed by Honda to be more compact than the previous 781cc version, it fits into a spacious, full-size sporting motorcycle that is a definite step up in scale from the Interceptor 800 but still a bit more compact feeling than its bag-equipped sporting competition.

The unusual crankpin and Vee arrangement are said to “essentially” negate primary engine vibration. There is plenty going on at most rpm in terms of the engine communicating its existence to you. Mostly, it’s just a minor and interesting reminder through the handgrips that this is not last year’s V-Four. At cruise speeds, it’s all-day smooth, and about the only time engine vibration truly gets noticeable is on closed-throttle deceleration, when the fuel tank transmits an excited, coarse buzz."

And from wikipedia: 

"

Engine[edit]

The new engine incorporates the single overhead camshaft distribution system called "Unicam" which was tested on Honda's offroad machines. This compact system reduces engine size, allowing it to be placed further forward in the frame while lowering the bike's center of gravity. This allows for better front wheel traction when cornering. A 28° positioning of crank pins and a specific [clarification needed] firing order of the cylinders resulted in an engine with perfect primary balance. Because of this, there is no balance shaft, further lightening the engine.[14]

Instead of conventional direct mechanical connection from the rider's twistgrip to the throttle, electronic throttle control ("throttle by wire") commands the engine control unit to modulate engine power output.

The configuration of the cylinders is also unusual. The V4 has the rear bank of cylinders paired closely together, with the big ends of their connecting rods on the inner sides of the crank journals. The forward bank of cylinders is conversely set outboard of the rear bank, with the big end journals mounted on the outer sides of the crank journals. This design allows for a much narrower engine at the rear, which makes the bike slimmer where it contacts the rider, and allows an easier reach to the ground from the seat."

Personally, I love having a bike not all that many people have.  I get comments from those who don't know: "What is that anyway." And from those that do, "I like those VFRs, you can do anything on one of those." And I get compliments on it all the time.  On more than one occasion, while stopped at a red light, I've had people give me a compliment as they are walking across the street in front of me.  One guy stopped to talk to me about while he was crossing the intersection.  I've come out of the gas station/restaurant/local bike hang to find a group of guys checking it out.  No offense to the Gixxer/CBR/Ninja riding members, but everyone has seen one of those before.  A new VFR...its like riding an exotic on a budget.

Keep in mind I love my 6th gen but I wouldn't go out and buy an 8th gen because the VTEC engine isn't all that impressive to me and it's heavy. I had to invest a lot of money to make it more comfortable for longer rides and if it tips over it is almost impossible for me to lift it by myself.

Still love my 6th gen though and in no hurry to replace as it does everything I want and need. But if I were looking to replace it I would seriously consider a Ninja 1000 because the ergonomics are perfect for me right out of the crate, it's lighter, more powerful, and I can put a Givi rack on it and use all my hard cases. It even has an adjustable windscreen and I could pick up a new 2013 ABS model for just under 8k. No it's not a V4 but when you are 5'7" and weight 145 lbs the VFR requires very careful handling at slow speeds.

I've owned and daily-ridden the 5th, 6th, and now 8th Gens, and I can say without shadow of a doubt that the 2014 model is an order of magnitude more maneuverable in low-speed traffic than its' predecessors. Anyone who doubts the veracity of the latest VFR clearly hasn't used it as an every-dayer yet.

Just for comparison (and because my family has a long connection with the marque), I took an Indian Scout out for a test ride on the weekend. I absolutely loved it for what it is, and whilst I'd dearly love to add one to the garage, I'd have to sell something else first to make room. My 2014 VFR can do everything a Scout would (posing for cruiser magazines and turning up to club meets withstanding), where as the Indian wouldn't make nearly as good a commuter & traffic-beater.

It would be interesting to see Honda put the 1200 v4 into the 8th gen chassis.  The 1200cc v4 engine is physically smaller than the 800 VTEC as I understand it and honda would certainly have the engineering prowess to make it happen.

Now that is a bike that would love to ride! But I am betting that the 1200 engine torque would warp and twist the 6th/8th gen frame.

I sat on the New 8th Gen at the dealer in the DC area (coleman powersports) and also on the FZ-09 AND the FJ-09.  The FZ has more of the feel of the VFR if you dropped the bars a little...sporty.  The FJ-09 feels like you're wearing it...with a sit up and beg position.  It was more like sitting on a Ducati Multi-strada...but a little lower in the saddle.  My 5th Gen I sit ON the bike...but it is not nearly as aggressive as my SV650 trackday bike with low clip-ons and rearsets moved up and back...

The FJ-09 felt like a toy compared to my 5th Gen...soooo light and felt shorter in comparison.  The bash guards on the hand grips make it feel very wide though...should wheelie like a houligan!

Matt

While I think the new VFR is a gorgeous bike, there are a lot of other options out there these days, and several of them are less expensive.  If I were in the market for a new bike I think the FZ-09 or FJ-09 would be near the top of my list.

BTW I LOOOOOOOOOOOVE my vfr...

Keep in mind I love my 6th gen but I wouldn't go out and buy an 8th gen because the VTEC engine isn't all that impressive to me and it's heavy. I had to invest a lot of money to make it more comfortable for longer rides and if it tips over it is almost impossible for me to lift it by myself.

Still love my 6th gen though and in no hurry to replace as it does everything I want and need. But if I were looking to replace it I would seriously consider a Ninja 1000 because the ergonomics are perfect for me right out of the crate, it's lighter, more powerful, and I can put a Givi rack on it and use all my hard cases. It even has an adjustable windscreen and I could pick up a new 2013 ABS model for just under 8k. No it's not a V4 but when you are 5'7" and weight 145 lbs the VFR requires very careful handling at slow speeds.

 
I've owned and daily-ridden the 5th, 6th, and now 8th Gens, and I can say without shadow of a doubt that the 2014 model is an order of magnitude more maneuverable in low-speed traffic than its' predecessors. Anyone who doubts the veracity of the latest VFR clearly hasn't used it as an every-dayer yet.

Just for comparison (and because my family has a long connection with the marque), I took an Indian Scout out for a test ride on the weekend. I absolutely loved it for what it is, and whilst I'd dearly love to add one to the garage, I'd have to sell something else first to make room. My 2014 VFR can do everything a Scout would (posing for cruiser magazines and turning up to club meets withstanding), where as the Indian wouldn't make nearly as good a commuter & traffic-beater.

What is the fascination with having your VFR be lighter? Has anyone moaning about the weight of the new VFR actually ridden it?  It hides it weight extremely well. Is super easy to ride at high speeds and parking lot speeds.  How much weight do you want it to lose? 

I know super sports keep getting lighter and lighter, but at what cost?  675r falls over in the driveway and is a complete loss.  An acquaintance of mine was riding a GSXR 750 when someone pulled out in front of him. He clipped the quarter panel with the front of the bike.  The fork tubes didn't bend, but the welds at the steering head cracked.

On the track, light weight is great, but on the street in the real world, a little well hidden beefiness isn't a bad thing. 

What is the fascination with having your VFR be lighter? Has anyone moaning about the weight of the new VFR actually ridden it?  It hides it weight extremely well. Is super easy to ride at high speeds and parking lot speeds.  How much weight do you want it to lose?

All of it? OK, the anti gravity module is not ready for prime time I guess. :happy:

Riding with any speed at all is fine, no problem.

Mine only feels a bit heavy to push around the garage,

and if it leans much more than it does on the kick stand when it's stopped, then it's really heavy.

Or if it's horizontal, then it seemingly weighs a ton.. :pissed:

Or if it's horizontal, then it seemingly weighs a ton.. :pissed:

Having ridden my SV650 (425 wet)  on he track and on the street....comparatively the VFR is a pig at 100lbs heavier (6th gen at 520 wet)...100lbs is a LOT.  Lighter is not a 320lb dirtbike, but a 425lb  bike carries it weight better than a 520lb bike or 570lbs with all my shit attached...

What is the fascination with having your VFR be lighter? Has anyone moaning about the weight of the new VFR actually ridden it?  It hides it weight extremely well. Is super easy to ride at high speeds and parking lot speeds.  How much weight do you want it to lose? 

I know super sports keep getting lighter and lighter, but at what cost?  675r falls over in the driveway and is a complete loss.  An acquaintance of mine was riding a GSXR 750 when someone pulled out in front of him. He clipped the quarter panel with the front of the bike.  The fork tubes didn't bend, but the welds at the steering head cracked.

On the track, light weight is great, but on the street in the real world, a little well hidden beefiness isn't a bad thing. 

Or if it's horizontal, then it seemingly weighs a ton.. :pissed:

You're doing it wrong.

I  realize the instinctive grab and yank on the bars is not the way to go.

I'll call it a quarter ton done the right way. Still not a light weight. :happy2:

What is the fascination with having your VFR be lighter? Has anyone moaning about the weight of the new VFR actually ridden it?  It hides it weight extremely well. Is super easy to ride at high speeds and parking lot speeds.  How much weight do you want it to lose? 

I know super sports keep getting lighter and lighter, but at what cost?  675r falls over in the driveway and is a complete loss.  An acquaintance of mine was riding a GSXR 750 when someone pulled out in front of him. He clipped the quarter panel with the front of the bike.  The fork tubes didn't bend, but the welds at the steering head cracked.

On the track, light weight is great, but on the street in the real world, a little well hidden beefiness isn't a bad thing. 

Maybe bring the weight down to Ducati Multistrada level...and while you are at it 150-160 hp would feel a bit better two up when passing. :-)

Seriously though, the earlier comparison of the 8G to the weight of the 6G is not very accurate. When I rode the 8G it felt like a smaller bike than the 6G even though it has only lost 22 lbs. I know Honda does an amazing job hiding the weight of their bikes (ask anyone who pilots an ST1300) once moving but like Colin Chapman stated "Add lightness."  

That helps under acceleration, braking and with centripetal forces in handling.

Or if it's horizontal, then it seemingly weighs a ton.. :pissed:

You're doing it wrong.

What is the fascination with having your VFR be lighter? Has anyone moaning about the weight of the new VFR actually ridden it?  It hides it weight extremely well. Is super easy to ride at high speeds and parking lot speeds.  How much weight do you want it to lose? 

I know super sports keep getting lighter and lighter, but at what cost?  675r falls over in the driveway and is a complete loss.  An acquaintance of mine was riding a GSXR 750 when someone pulled out in front of him. He clipped the quarter panel with the front of the bike.  The fork tubes didn't bend, but the welds at the steering head cracked.

On the track, light weight is great, but on the street in the real world, a little well hidden beefiness isn't a bad thing. 

Maybe bring the weight down to Ducati Multistrada level...and while you are at it 150-160 hp would feel a bit better two up when passing. :-)

Seriously though, the earlier comparison of the 8G to the weight of the 6G is not very accurate. When I rode the 8G it felt like a smaller bike than the 6G even though it has only lost 22 lbs. I know Honda does an amazing job hiding the weight of their bikes (ask anyone who pilots an ST1300) once moving but like Colin Chapman stated "Add lightness."  

That helps under acceleration, braking and with centripetal forces in handling.

I won't argue against a few more ponies.  I won't even argue that the race replicas should "add lightness" .  But on the VFR, the weight would not be my first upgrade.  

A bike like this should have fully adjustable suspension, including rear ride height adjustment.  It gets used for far too many different things to have anything less.  

Even though the Vtec transition isn't as intrusive, there really is no use for it other than for Honda to over engineer something.  It adds nothing but cost of ownership.  

A little more power wouldn't hurt, but it doesn't need to compete with a ZX14R.  125-150 HP would be fine.  

Transmission is sloppy; and the final drive lash is way too lose.

If Honda could address the weight by reworking the engine and trans, then great.  

Multistrada notwithstanding, for its purpose, the VFR's weight isn't too far off, IMO.  

Kawasaki made the mistake of listening to the masses cry for a lightweight super sport when they delivered the 2004 ZX10R. If I wanted raw, I wouldn't have bought a VFR.

What is the fascination with having your VFR be lighter? Has anyone moaning about the weight of the new VFR actually ridden it?  It hides it weight extremely well. Is super easy to ride at high speeds and parking lot speeds.  How much weight do you want it to lose? 

I know super sports keep getting lighter and lighter, but at what cost?  675r falls over in the driveway and is a complete loss.  An acquaintance of mine was riding a GSXR 750 when someone pulled out in front of him. He clipped the quarter panel with the front of the bike.  The fork tubes didn't bend, but the welds at the steering head cracked.

On the track, light weight is great, but on the street in the real world, a little well hidden beefiness isn't a bad thing. 

An aprilia dealer just opened near me. New 2015 Tuono (999 cc v4) weighs 407 lbs dry. Has abs and massive brakes and fully adjustable sachs suspension and steering damper. I think I saw a review once saying its 480lbs wet. Price is $14,500 with a $1,000 summer factory discount bringing it to the same price as a VFR 800 ($13,500) . Just FYI

FJ-09 is $10, 490...with more ponies...The Tuono is 406lbs DRY...ad at least 30lb for gas oil, coolant and blinker fluid...and now you're in the same weight territory as the FJ-09...still 50lbs less than the 8th Gen!!!

Tuono has the edge in HP over both bikes...and "cool" factor too...

What is the fascination with having your VFR be lighter? Has anyone moaning about the weight of the new VFR actually ridden it?  It hides it weight extremely well. Is super easy to ride at high speeds and parking lot speeds.  How much weight do you want it to lose? 
 
I know super sports keep getting lighter and lighter, but at what cost?  675r falls over in the driveway and is a complete loss.  An acquaintance of mine was riding a GSXR 750 when someone pulled out in front of him. He clipped the quarter panel with the front of the bike.  The fork tubes didn't bend, but the welds at the steering head cracked.
 
On the track, light weight is great, but on the street in the real world, a little well hidden beefiness isn't a bad thing.

 
An aprilia dealer just opened near me. New 2015 Tuono (999 cc v4) weighs 407 lbs dry. Has abs and massive brakes and fully adjustable sachs suspension and steering damper. I think I saw a review once saying its 480lbs wet. Price is $14,500 with a $1,000 summer factory discount bringing it to the same price as a VFR 800 ($13,500) . Just FYI

The VFR800 is selling well in the UK, the local dealers sell them as fast as they arrive, in fact mine is going straight from the crate into the workshop and then to me as fast as they can get the PDI done

There was only 1 in the showroom and that was sold, only 1 used for sale

There were 2 CBR600RR bike's discounted to sell but no takers

My main reasons for choosing the VFR over anything else (and cost is not a problem) are it has ABS, decent forks and the alternator puts out enough juice to power my heated jacket PLUS the exhaust doesn't look like NASA built it

I have a CBR600 to play with but I need a trustworthy bike I can cover a lot of miles on in all weathers

After 2 painful years of BMW ownership, the value for money of the VFR is a breath of fresh air

If you want a light, fast bike get a CBR600, they're built for it and have more useable power than 90% of the owners can and know how to use, don't knock the VFR for being a different bike to the 6th generation, it's called evolution and sometimes it turns out different

In my estimation, this is dead on.  The 8th gen is evolutionary, not revolutionary.  It improved upon the previous platform, but didn't revolutionize the SPORT touring segment.  

As for the lighter examples mentioned above, it only proves that a bike can be lighter and faster.  Are they better?  I don't know, I haven't ridden either of them.  

I know my ZX7R is an example of a heavy bike.  (500+lbs in the replica racer category) But having a lighter machine was no guarantee I'd be looking at your tail lights.  Even in its racing platform the ZX7R was heavy and under-powered, but held its own.  

Until I can do this, I think the VFR is fine.

[video: https://youtube.com/embed/yVqQnRrvask?html5=1&fs=1]

I'll grant you that the aprilia's pillion seat doesn't compare at all to the VFRs --- nor its looks (at least its face)  or the comfy ride of the vfr in general--its very much a nice place to be  :biggrin: .

I only mentioned the Tuono as an example of a lightweight v4. Don't misunderstand, I am a definite fan of the VFR I only wish it was like 50lbs lighter because that's what I'm used to and half of my riding is in tight maneuvering which is easier on a light bike. The VFR also doesn't run as hot as the aprilia which is always something to consider in warmer climates.  

I really enjoyed the albeit brief test rides I have taken on the 8th gen. I was actually waiting for a white 2015 DLX to come in to buy but it took a long time and while waiting I found and fell in love with this "flimsy" funny sounding triple 675 something and bought that instead  :wink:

Still want a vfr though !!

The VFR800 is selling well in the UK, the local dealers sell them as fast as they arrive, in fact mine is going straight from the crate into the workshop and then to me as fast as they can get the PDI done

There was only 1 in the showroom and that was sold, only 1 used for sale

There were 2 CBR600RR bike's discounted to sell but no takers

My main reasons for choosing the VFR over anything else (and cost is not a problem) are it has ABS, decent forks and the alternator puts out enough juice to power my heated jacket PLUS the exhaust doesn't look like NASA built it

I have a CBR600 to play with but I need a trustworthy bike I can cover a lot of miles on in all weathers

After 2 painful years of BMW ownership, the value for money of the VFR is a breath of fresh air

If you want a light, fast bike get a CBR600, they're built for it and have more useable power than 90% of the owners can and know how to use, don't knock the VFR for being a different bike to the 6th generation, it's called evolution and sometimes it turns out different

It's good to hear they're selling well there - probably what keeps it alive for the rest of the world!

To get an idea of what model VFR is the most common over here, here is an album with pics taken of VFRs passing by a petrol station after the Assen TT. I have no idea how long the photografpher has been sitting at that petrol station so no idea if this data can reliably used in a statistical analysis :biggrin:

It's good to hear they're selling well there - probably what keeps it alive for the rest of the world!

+1. :warranty:

I need more space and more money to fill that space with more bikes to ride. V4 Tuono, Duc Monster. New VFR.  :beer:

Keep in mind I love my 6th gen but I wouldn't go out and buy an 8th gen because the VTEC engine isn't all that impressive to me and it's heavy. I had to invest a lot of money to make it more comfortable for longer rides and if it tips over it is almost impossible for me to lift it by myself.

Still love my 6th gen though and in no hurry to replace as it does everything I want and need. But if I were looking to replace it I would seriously consider a Ninja 1000 because the ergonomics are perfect for me right out of the crate, it's lighter, more powerful, and I can put a Givi rack on it and use all my hard cases. It even has an adjustable windscreen and I could pick up a new 2013 ABS model for just under 8k. No it's not a V4 but when you are 5'7" and weight 145 lbs the VFR requires very careful handling at slow speeds.

Yes, the ABS Ninja is about 23 lbs lighter than the 800 DLX.  Maybe.  Kawasaki says their curb weight is with all "necessary" stuff and at least 90% of gas capacity while Honda says their curb weight is all "standard" equipment and a full tank.  I'm actually gonna go with 20 lbs for now based on the gas differences alone.

The Honda also offers a 1.3" lower seat height for you short folks.  ;)

The Ninja is also less expensive, you don't necessarily have to buy one in that hideous green, and the TC on the later models probably works a lot better than Honda's.

OTOH you get .6 gallons less fuel capacity, less gas mileage, and might end up having to add a center stand, which will erase about 5 lbs from the weight advantage.  The pillion seat isn't quite as nice as Honda's and the Kawasaki's OEM panniers require some additional hardware.

Having ridden my SV650 (425 wet)  on he track and on the street....comparatively the VFR is a pig at 100lbs heavier (6th gen at 520 wet)...100lbs is a LOT.  Lighter is not a 320lb dirtbike, but a 425lb  bike carries it weight better than a 520lb bike or 570lbs with all my shit attached...

SV650 is a naked twin with half the gas tank size.  Just sayin'.

The '09 is 437 wet according to Wikipedia.  Pre- '03 listed as 417 lbs and the newer Gladius is now 446 with ABS.

Remember when comparing wet weights to compare gas tank sizes.  That's 12 lbs between the VFR-800 and the SV right there.

Hi all,

my 2 cents  :cheerleader:

i had a 2nd gen sv1000s for a couple yrs and honestly do not feel the difference pushing my little vfr around the garage compared to the sv, she was lighter but as stated above had a 17 odd ltr tank and riding hard i only got 190 kms before the reserve. ( db killers out) 

My  last bike befoe the vfr ( ktm rc8r ) now that was another story, but something we can not actually compare my little vfr too because they are for different worlds .  ( wish i still had it just for the fun ) i'm too poor . lol :wink:  . prehaps later on .

As for sales here in france, the french love the vfr's all gens combined and the 8th gen is selling well from what ive seen and heard.

everyone loves it !!

its just such a do it all bike. just had the 12000kms service, only cost me 142€ .

As for the shocks, set up right by a pro, something i am not, i feel they are quite bloody good, and i ride some awful country roads every day.

high powered bike sales are down in france this year because from the 1st of jan 2016 they are finally getting rid of the 100bph governing law for all bikes that make more than 100bph, vfr not concerned  ( the european union finally told france to kill it ) . not that many people respect it anyways.

keep safe all, have a groovy wknd . 

:woohoo:

I have just got back from a 3,400 mile summer road trip, and thought about selling the Viffer because it is down on power compared to other bikes like the Tuono and ZX-10 and so on.

In the three weeks I did probably four long days on European motorways at actual (as opposed to indicated) 80 mph legal limits (plus a little margin for error ! ).

Anyway this is the bit that got me doubting the Viffer - being passed effortlessly by a little pack of sports bikes, and ZZR 1400 (two up !).

On my viffer I was at mostly 6,000 rpm in top gear, and it got me thinking I need mor GG's, more horses. But on reflection the Viffer does the job very well, so I shall not be selling it. It is still valid for what I bought it for. It still did the job of carting stuff all over Europe, over mountains and open plains - hot and rain.

Getting attached to that Viffer.

I don't have the bike and I do like the looks of it.  If I could only have one bike I would choose the new vfr over anything other else.  I still think the v4 is the best engine, but would want rock solid reliability which is something I am not sure about with the Tuano.

I have had plenty of inline 4's and the high horsepower varieties does not always make up for the lack of character.  I think Honda needs to lower the MSRP by 2-3k and I think they have a winner there.

I currently have only one bike, and it IS the new VFR!  However, I'm starting to wonder if the new KTM 1290 Super Adventure might also be a good candidate for a "one bike" garage.  But I still love my VFR, so I really need a "two bike" garage :491:

I currently have only one bike, and it IS the new VFR!  However, I'm starting to wonder if the new KTM 1290 Super Adventure might also be a good candidate for a "one bike" garage.  But I still love my VFR, so I really need a "two bike" garage :491:

[image: smugshot_8434948-X2.jpg]

One bike garage???     :unsure:

The SA is quite a beast.

Rob

Damn you for beating me to it!  Wish I had the money and room to do the same thing.  Maybe someday....

I don't have the bike and I do like the looks of it.  If I could only have one bike I would choose the new vfr over anything other else.  I still think the v4 is the best engine, but would want rock solid reliability which is something I am not sure about with the Tuano.

I have had plenty of inline 4's and the high horsepower varieties does not always make up for the lack of character.  I think Honda needs to lower the MSRP by 2-3k and I think they have a winner there.

That's  gonna  happen , Honda  will  lower  the  price.

" On top of that, it seems here in the US the Sport-Touring segment has partly migrated to ADV style of bikes."

Not  just  here  Euro also .

Looking at a GSX R750 this weekend. They have some interest free deals going on, and a deposit of  £1 ($1.50 or whatever the FX rate is).

Anyway looking at the GSXR I can see why they are cheap ! It has not got the same class as the Viffer.

Talking of the Euro market changing. What I did notice al lot of on my trip to Europe a few weeks ago, was Yamaha FJR 1300's, I saw loads of them. Maybe they are former GS owners that have bought them !

Anyway, who really wants a hoofing great Adventure Bike - the new GS 1200 Adventure is a completely ridiculous looking thing (IMHO !) - all that metal and plastic and still only two little contact patches or tyre rubber with the road.

Also, with Adventure Bikes I do not like the amount of cockpit that is "in your face". With the Viffer all the clocks and bodywork are out of field of vision (mostly) and you have a clear field of view. But with the Adventure Bikes you have all this stuff right in front of your line of sight - might be god for standing on the pegs off road.

I think pure Adventure Bikes will pass, as the memory of the Long Way Round fades. There are some hot sports bikes out there, but they are just so quick - custodial sentence quick - but with the Viffer you can make it bark nicely, and not get into that much trouble !

Maybe because it isn't new and different enough from the old VTEC 800?

Same engine and frame from 13 years ago.


And I'm still waiting for them to make an all-new geardrive 1000, 505 Lbs wet weight, 140 HP

Ain't gonna happen, so that's why I still have my old bike........

100% on the mark. Hello Honda!

While the VFR can't be considered slow, the new competition (FJ, Ninja 1000) are way faster...and much lower MSRP. As a result, VFRs are being ridiculously discounted. But now it's too late -- the potential buyers have gone elsewhere. On top of that, it seems here in the US the Sport-Touring segment has partly migrated to ADV style of bikes.

I have not seen a single '14+ on the street here in the Chicago area...

The primary reason I'm thinking about a new VFR is the beautiful V4 sound and the prices have come down so much. The other features it has are only adequate. But market leader in any category? I don't see it.

actually, i just bought a '14 VFR over the Ninja 1000.  While the ninja 1000 is probably a good deal faster, there are a couple other things to consider:

1 - honda allowed me to test ride, the other shop didn't.  that was HUGE.

2 - insurance!!!  full coverage on the ninja 1000 was going to be something like 1,400/year, vs ~600/year for the VFR

3 - price, i got a '14 vfr deluxe new for 10k out the door.  the ninja 1000 new was going to be closer to 12k out the door. 

so yea, the ninja 1000 was a tempting bike, but that insurance was killer (also, my vfr came w/ heated grips, traction control, abs, etc)...

While the VFR can't be considered slow, the new competition (FJ, Ninja 1000) are way faster...and much lower MSRP. As a result, VFRs are being ridiculously discounted. But now it's too late -- the potential buyers have gone elsewhere. On top of that, it seems here in the US the Sport-Touring segment has partly migrated to ADV style of bikes.

I have not seen a single '14+ on the street here in the Chicago area...

The primary reason I'm thinking about a new VFR is the beautiful V4 sound and the prices have come down so much. The other features it has are only adequate. But market leader in any category? I don't see it.

actually, i just bought a '14 VFR over the Ninja 1000.  While the ninja 1000 is probably a good deal faster, there are a couple other things to consider:

1 - honda allowed me to test ride, the other shop didn't.  that was HUGE.

2 - insurance!!!  full coverage on the ninja 1000 was going to be something like 1,400/year, vs ~600/year for the VFR

3 - price, i got a '14 vfr deluxe new for 10k out the door.  the ninja 1000 new was going to be closer to 12k out the door. 

so yea, the ninja 1000 was a tempting bike, but that insurance was killer (also, my vfr came w/ heated grips, traction control, abs, etc)...

So what swung the deal for you in favor of the VFR was that the Kawasaki has a list price much closer to what they actually sell for?

The Honda appears to be close to $5,000 discounted when taxes, freight, assembly and all of the other nickels and dimes are added to get an out the door price that is $3,500 below list is pretty insightful. It is also what many on this forum thought the VFR should have listed for when it was resurrected last year.

I applaud you for your buying skills but I am sure those who paid close to list (or above out the door) do not want to see the KBB value of their bikes in the coming months as these discounts on new bikes become more prevalent.

" i got a '14 vfr deluxe new for 10k out the door." Mind sharing which dealer made that deal? I like not too far in northern va.

They are going for around $10K here in Ohio windyrun. With it being late in the season, I bet it will be easy to find some.

Thanks for the heads-up on prices in OH!

Just saw a 2014 new leftover in Cedarburg, WI for $8,5xx.  Dang, seems like a deal.

There are deals to be had (or were at least, now that Spring is over the prices may be back up). I began my search for a leftover 2014 in earnest back in late-April and finally bought one in mid-May. My search included cycletrader, craigslist, checking dealership websites and/or calling dealerships in my area. As far as I can recall, the best deals I found were 1) just under $10k list price for a Red Deluxe in Arkansas (I really wanted a white model though, so I kept looking as I didn't want to compromise on this), 2) a White Deluxe for $10.5k in Minnesota (was strongly considering a fly-and-ride), and finally 3) another White Deluxe in Oklahoma City, OK area that I ended up buying as it was within driving distance.

Note that the internet price originally listed for my bike was $12k, but I called the dealership and was quoted $10.5k (thankfully the guy on the phone couldn't see my jaw hit the floor), so it pays to speak to someone, don't just assume the internet prices (good or bad) are accurate.

I do agree, though, that perhaps these aren't selling real well. For instance, I was in Colorado on a road trip after I got mine and had a need for some parts, so I called the dealership in Durango, CO. The manager told me not only did they not carry any parts for my bike but that they'd never sold one because they'd never had one allocated as part of their inventory.

It's rather odd, really, because although I've only owned my bike for roughly 2.5 months, I've lost count of the number of people who have approached me to ask about it. Every single person has loved its styling... and every single one of them (including quite a few who ride) had no clue what it was or that Honda made such a bike. I can't say if it is a marketing, pricing or perception issue, but there's definitely something odd there.

There are alot of people (motorcycle riders and non riders) that compliment the styling and appearance of the bike when they see it in person, and very few have ever heard of a Honda VFR or Interceptor. When mentioning the full sticker price most people comment that the price does not seem high for what you get compared to other bikes on the market.

In my area there are 2 dealers that have stocked the 8th gen VFR, one had a standard model they never sold, and the other has had 3 Deluxe models 2 of them sold right away, the 3rd is a new 2015 that they got a few weeks back.

Over the years Ive looked at VFR800s from 1998 through the current model, the 8th gen seems to have sold 2 local dealers better than any of the older models have. From 2001 through 2003 there were still leftover 1998s and 1999s sitting on showrooms. The 6th gen model was not kept in stock by many local dealers at all (from 2002 to 2009 I only ever saw a few in 2-3 dealerships ever). When I was looking for a 2014 all but two dealers told me they wont stock a VFR because they cant sell them (especially after the 7th gen model). 2 of those dealers who stock single VFRs told me that only certain customers buy them, and those customers keep them for a long time.

 2 of those dealers who stock single VFRs told me that only certain customers buy them, and those customers keep them for a long time.

That's me.  I bought my '99 new and the dealer hasn't seen me in 15 years! 

My dealer has had a standard model on the floor since the day they came out.  He had to order the deluxe, but I still got all of the incentives.

It would be interesting to see Honda put the 1200 v4 into the 8th gen chassis.  The 1200cc v4 engine is physically smaller than the 800 VTEC as I understand it and honda would certainly have the engineering prowess to make it happen.

Now that is a bike that would love to ride! But I am betting that the 1200 engine torque would warp and twist the 6th/8th gen frame.

Maybe so, but I would love to try to do it!   :wheel:

BTW I don't think any VFR has every sold well in the USA! The rest of the World seems to have a smarter buying public! 

​Just came across a new 2014 on ebay for $8647. 

 http://www.ebay.com/...em=391209408801

Looking at a GSX R750 this weekend. They have some interest free deals going on, and a deposit of  £1 ($1.50 or whatever the FX rate is).

Anyway looking at the GSXR I can see why they are cheap ! It has not got the same class as the Viffer.

Talking of the Euro market changing. What I did notice al lot of on my trip to Europe a few weeks ago, was Yamaha FJR 1300's, I saw loads of them. Maybe they are former GS owners that have bought them !

Anyway, who really wants a hoofing great Adventure Bike - the new GS 1200 Adventure is a completely ridiculous looking thing (IMHO !) - all that metal and plastic and still only two little contact patches or tyre rubber with the road.

Also, with Adventure Bikes I do not like the amount of cockpit that is "in your face". With the Viffer all the clocks and bodywork are out of field of vision (mostly) and you have a clear field of view. But with the Adventure Bikes you have all this stuff right in front of your line of sight - might be god for standing on the pegs off road.

I think pure Adventure Bikes will pass, as the memory of the Long Way Round fades. There are some hot sports bikes out there, but they are just so quick - custodial sentence quick - but with the Viffer you can make it bark nicely, and not get into that much trouble !

Not all the adventure bikes have in-your-face cockpits but it's not difficult to deal with.

I think it's a bit absurd to have such big, heavy "adventure" bikes but I don't think the category is going away any time soon.  I think an adventure bike is an ideal urban assault vehicle.  Looks fine coated in filth, able to handle huge potholes comfortably, handles motorists' braille parking more gracefully, offers a slightly higher POV in traffic, etc.

​Just came across a new 2014 on ebay for $8647. 

 http://www.ebay.com/...em=391209408801

Last two times I was in Wisconsin I think I saw three sportbikes.

And eight frickin' thousand H-Ds.

Just sayin'...

 2 of those dealers who stock single VFRs told me that only certain customers buy them, and those customers keep them for a long time.

That's me.  I bought my '99 new and the dealer hasn't seen me in 15 years! 

Thats me also, over 14 years with my CBR before trading it in, I searched and found my current 2014 VFR800 weeks before it came in and dont plan on getting rid of it, I love this bike.

I'll either be buying a DLX or VFR1200 in about 6 months.  In CA the best I can do is 13,000 OTD.  Of course our taxes and registration is high.  One problem I'm having is finding a 1200 to test ride.

On top of that the VFR pricing doesn't help.  I think the 8th gen is likely a fantastic machine and would fit my needs and wants perfectly but unfortunately, it isn't much different than my 2002 

Agree completely. I was stoked when the 8th gen was announced but floored at the $$. Its not that far off my 1997 in specs and it was asking BMW S1000 pricing. 

1997 VFR750F: http://www.bikez.com..._750_f_1997.php

2014 VFR800F: http://www.cycleworl...ance-numbers/2/

There's a brand new 2014 VFR for $8999 in Colorado: http://www.ebay.com/...sd=391209408801

Maybe most buyers are waiting for a 1000cc v4?

Maybe because it isn't new and different enough from the old VTEC 800?

Same engine and frame from 13 years ago.


And I'm still waiting for them to make an all-new geardrive 1000, 505 Lbs wet weight, 140 HP

Ain't gonna happen, so that's why I still have my old bike........

While it's an I4, I feel Suzuki has come out with what Honda could have/should have. The new GSX-S 1000F. http://www.suzukicyc...GSXS1000FA.aspx

Ride Report http://www.superbike...00f-first-ride/

A reply to my comment I received via Facebook about it: 'SuperBike magazine: It was much more focused than we expected it to be, Randy. If we'd have known, we'd have worn full leathers. It was great fun to ride, get a test ride and see for yourself.'

Suzuki listened to hundreds of GSX-R owners in coming up with this bike and it pretty much fits most of your idea above. I don't really feel that Honda listened to anyone when they came out with the 8th Gen. Don't get me wrong, I love the way it looks, but I love my 6th Gen and I can't see a reason to spend $13K on a bike that is a fancy version of what I've already got. I wouldn't mind trying the 8th Gen out after raising the forks 10mm like I have done and shimming the shock as I have on mine.

Honestly tho, it sounds like Suzuki may have the I4 version of what the 8th Gen could have been. Why Honda, why? A company that used to lead the pack in innovation has gone so conservative as to be boring. You're just to afraid to take risks, so you hand all the sales to your competitors. $184,000 underpowered bike vs Yamaha's $20K R1M that would leave it in the dust on a track, if they were both in absolutely stock form. Suzuki with the 1000F, Aprilia with the Tuono, need I go on? Even the CBR1K is outdated horribly, and that is supposed to be your superbike?

On top of that the VFR pricing doesn't help.  I think the 8th gen is likely a fantastic machine and would fit my needs and wants perfectly but unfortunately, it isn't much different than my 2002 

Agree completely. I was stoked when the 8th gen was announced but floored at the $$. Its not that far off my 1997 in specs and it was asking BMW S1000 pricing. 

1997 VFR750F: http://www.bikez.com..._750_f_1997.php

2014 VFR800F: http://www.cycleworl...ance-numbers/2/

I've mentioned this previously here and also in my '14 review.  Peak HP and torque numbers between '97 and now are not all that different but if you look at the dyno curves between then and now you will find a lot more happening in the newer bikes' midrange RPMs and overall flatter curves.  And better gas mileage as well, in spite of the additional emissions controls.

The BMW S1000 is a fine bike (EDIT: and an amazing value) that offers stunning power if that's what you want.  And for those interested you can disable the ABS, I'm sure the TC works better and the true USD forks will win all kinds of bench racing accolades.  When compared to a current VFR it requires a more aggressive rider posture, provides more meager {cough} "sporty" pillion accommodation, will require more work to install panniers, has 70 W less output available from its alternator, will have to stop an hour sooner for gas (and don't even think about feeding it less than premium), will require aftermarket heated grips, etc.  Also don't forget to budget a track stand.

Honda doesnt really seem like they're interested in reinventing the wheel, merely coasting on it.

The Africa Twin is a pretty neat entry but other than that, what have they really done in the last however many years of motorcycling?  That's not a rhetorical question by the way.  As a new motorcyclist im interested in hearing what more experienced, seasoned riders have to say about this.

Im not knocking them as i believe they've obviously had a pretty significant impact on two wheeled fun BUT where others are pushing the bar, Honda is merely resting their hands on it.  The VFR is simply too expensive for what it is when you compare it to other bikes on paper.  In practice, it is nigh perfect but most red blooded males want power and more of it.  Its hard to justify a 13k price tag on a bike that only makes 100 BHP and weighs ALOT.  If i was in the market for a bike right now, id try and snap up one of those leftover 14's as a price tag in the mid 8's seems BEYOND reasonable for the package that is the 8th gen VFR.

I'd love to see the actual sales numbers of the std and DLX 8th gen vfr in the US. 

On top of that the VFR pricing doesn't help.  I think the 8th gen is likely a fantastic machine and would fit my needs and wants perfectly but unfortunately, it isn't much different than my 2002 

Agree completely. I was stoked when the 8th gen was announced but floored at the $$. Its not that far off my 1997 in specs and it was asking BMW S1000 pricing. 

1997 VFR750F: http://www.bikez.com..._750_f_1997.php

2014 VFR800F: http://www.cycleworl...ance-numbers/2/

I've mentioned this previously here and also in my '14 review.  Peak HP and torque numbers between '97 and now are not all that different but if you look at the dyno curves between then and now you will find a lot more happening in the newer bikes' midrange RPMs and overall flatter curves.  And better gas mileage as well, in spite of the additional emissions controls.

The BMW S1000 is a fine bike that offers stunning power if that's what you want.  And for those interested you can disable the ABS, I'm sure the TC works better and the true USD forks will win all kinds of bench racing accolades.  When compared to a current VFR it requires a more aggressive rider posture, provides more meager {cough} "sporty" pillion accommodation, will require more work to install panniers, has 70 W less output available from its alternator, will have to stop an hour sooner for gas (and don't even think about feeding it less than premium), will require aftermarket heated grips, etc.  Also don't forget to budget a track stand.

Are you referring to the S1000RR or the S1000R? Both have BMW heated grips as an option. Also, I feel neither is a fair comparison to the 8th Gen. Maybe the K1300S if you go off of he basis of a fully faired ST bike. That there are very few, at this time, fully faired ST bikes that aren't ADVs, is one thing I like about the 8th Gen.

I have a sneaking suspicion that with the GSX-S1000F coming out, coupled with the 8th Gen and the K1300S, might we be seeing a slow return to other manufacturers making a comeback to the actual definition of the Sports Touring meaning? Yamaha of course still has their venerable FJ1300R, which I rode a little and kind of liked. Ducati had the ST4, Aprilia had the Futura, their version of the VFR. Triumph had the Sprint ST, then the GT, but that was the gateway drug to their gigantic Trophy SE, that others have laughingly called a Sports Touring bike. Right.

I hope that we as consumers can see the category returning to its roots. If so, then maybe Honda could be credited in helping that when they released the 8th Gen. I do hope however that if this does happen, they can beef it up, because if the 1000F is any indication, the ST category will be about less weight and more power. If Suzuki, the company that has truly fallen asleep, can offer 140+++ HP in a lighter bike, then the VFR will need more to stay relevant. It's possible and I am stymied as to why Honda went the route they did. They let BMW define the category while Honda fell asleep at the wheel and decided to be boring and hide in the corner and almost be too timid to make a statement. Apologetic even.

The VFR is simply too expensive for what it is when you compare it to other bikes on paper. In practice, it is nigh perfect but most red blooded males want power and more of it. Its hard to justify a 13k price tag on a bike that only makes 100 BHP and weighs ALOT. If i was in the market for a bike right now, id try and snap up one of those leftover 14's as a price tag in the mid 8's seems BEYOND reasonable for the package that is the 8th gen VFR.

Well I guess I'm not a red blooded male.

Sorry, I've long outgrown any need to express the potential of my male sexuality through horsepower.

But I was happy to get a leftover 4th gen for $6800 out the door in early '99.  :-)

 

The BMW S1000 is a fine bike that offers stunning power if that's what you want.  And for those interested you can disable the ABS, I'm sure the TC works better and the true USD forks will win all kinds of bench racing accolades.  When compared to a current VFR it requires a more aggressive rider posture, provides more meager {cough} "sporty" pillion accommodation, will require more work to install panniers, has 70 W less output available from its alternator, will have to stop an hour sooner for gas (and don't even think about feeding it less than premium), will require aftermarket heated grips, etc.  Also don't forget to budget a track stand.

 
Are you referring to the S1000RR or the S1000R? Both have BMW heated grips as an option. Also, I feel neither is a fair comparison to the 8th Gen. Maybe the K1300S if you go off of he basis of a fully faired ST bike. That there are very few, at this time, fully faired ST bikes that aren't ADVs, is one thing I like about the 8th Gen.
 
I have a sneaking suspicion that with the GSX-S1000F coming out, coupled with the 8th Gen and the K1300S, might we be seeing a slow return to other manufacturers making a comeback to the actual definition of the Sports Touring meaning? Yamaha of course still has their venerable FJ1300R, which I rode a little and kind of liked. Ducati had the ST4, Aprilia had the Futura, their version of the VFR. Triumph had the Sprint ST, then the GT, but that was the gateway drug to their gigantic Trophy SE, that others have laughingly called a Sports Touring bike. Right.
 
I hope that we as consumers can see the category returning to its roots. If so, then maybe Honda could be credited in helping that when they released the 8th Gen. I do hope however that if this does happen, they can beef it up, because if the 1000F is any indication, the ST category will be about less weight and more power. If Suzuki, the company that has truly fallen asleep, can offer 140+++ HP in a lighter bike, then the VFR will need more to stay relevant. It's possible and I am stymied as to why Honda went the route they did. They let BMW define the category while Honda fell asleep at the wheel and decided to be boring and hide in the corner and almost be too timid to make a statement. Apologetic even.

Sorry, I couldn't tell about the availability of heated grips because BMW's web site was written by a 12 year old kid in Romania.

We had the VFR1200.  But it was too much of a porker.  But to be fair the FJ was no lightweight either.

I traded my 2003 6th gen in on the 2014 deluxe, 11 years makes a big difference, similar, but not the same. No need to get a PCIII to iron out FI. Fit and finish much better. I enjoyed the 03 so much, I wanted a new bike that I could enjoy the pleasure of owning one for another 10 years.

About 2 weeks away from getting my 83 back on the road, it's been 15 year since I have ridden it!!

I just test rode the FJR and BMW r1200RS.  The FJR is a sporty touring bike, big and heavy.  Great on the highway, but not a sports bike.   The BMW was buzzy and not worth the money.  Both bikes were faster, but not by much in the real world.    I still think the VFR is the only sport bike you can tour on.  As for price, who pays MSRP for a Honda? Plus when you option the BMW up it get expensive fast.  Everything is optional.  I'm thinking the VFR is still perfect,  Fast enough, well made and the sound can't be beat.  I've never been at full throttle at peak power thinking it need more.  Yes, you have to work at it, but it is plenty fast for a sport tourer.  

As for price, the VFR looks expensive.  I think it is worth the money.  It is a very well detailed bike.  The BMW was 19,000 the way it was optioned, and didn't feel anywhere near as nice as the VFR.  

The other thing is Honda doesn't understand the VFR buyer.  We are not CBR buyers who roll in and buy one on an impulse.  We fret over getting the bike that is right for us, and keep it and ride it longer, and put more miles on.  I think that is where they went wrong with the 1200.  I'm planning on buying in 6 months, and started looking now.  I have to be certain I get the perfect bike if I'm going to drop 15K.  Plus I'm trying to replace the best bike ever.  = )

Who pays retail indeed.  Even when the 8th gen was only out a month or two I got a NYC dealer to get me my red Deluxe ordered/shipped, prepped, plated, gassed up to the filler cap (albeit with really, REALLY crap gas) and out the door with keyed panniers and hugger installed for a bit over 14k.

While I'm mentioning this, might as well say kudos to New York Honda Yamaha for giving me a great deal on my VFR, being more than willing to wheel 'n deal for accessories, handing out valuable coupons left and right, and soon after my purchase not only giving my nephew an unbeatable deal on a new CBR300R from their local warehouse but dropping the prepped bike off at his home in NJ for a price that was too stupidly low to pass up.  And for only hitting me up for just $50-even instead of "shop time" for resetting my forks and tree after a young local bonehead in a Mercedes (who also happens to be a rider - haha) backed into the bike while making a Y-turn a few weeks ago.

This shop really represents everything that most NYC tri-state shops traditionally aren't.  The sales folks don't treat MSRP as a baseline, their shop accepts appointments for while-you-wait service, and it's staffed by enthusiastic, competent, English-speaking wrenches most of whom go racing every chance they have.  They remember your name, your bike, your job and your pals who do business there too.  They're a few blocks from the subway and they have space to keep your helmet 'n gear safe if you need to drop off the bike and run off to work or whatever.

But aside of all that they suck. 

:cheerleader: :bliss: :woohoo:

Just saw a new 2014 near Milwaukee for $79xx at a dealership listed on CL.  I can't believe how little these bikes are bringing in.

The std models seem to be particularly hard to sell. I remember when the 8th Gen first came out and I saw the STD model (at $12.5K) I thought to myself: what was Honda thinking?? Its only available in  the US also and seems to be the only model dealers near me stocked.

I also looked at the R1200RS and agree-buzzy and not very inspiring. The R1200R is even more -- not inspiring -- and buzzy. The VFR is definitely better sounding and more fun to ride.

I'm in the throes of this topic right now. Feeling like I want to increase the safety envelope around me (ABS, TC) during my 70 mi r/t commute as I await the birth of my second child, my 6th gen ('02) rides great though feels dated without the electronic extras (again, just for safety, not for pure motorcycling joy). Having just changed the clutch and brake fluid as well as coolant, and fixed up some broken plastic rivets to cut down on rattle... the riding experience with Staintunes, Heli bars, NWS hugger, Penske rear and revalved fronts... it's dialed in and great.

Now feels like the window of opportunity though, with an implicit ok from the wifey (who can argue against safety?), before I have two kids to entertain on weekends.  Took the FJ-09 for a ride, fun motor, but the riding position made me slouch and fit and finish was not up to VFR standard.  Something about that insecty looking front as well.

Tomorrow I test an R1200RS. Kinda wish I didn't read all the negative stuff from other guys on here as it may have biased me, but the cost alone gives me great pause. That leaves a test ride on the new Interceptor, which is not easy to come by it seems.  The reach on my '02, even with Heli bars, is a bit long so that's my biggest concern (I'm about 6'1", 33" inseam) with the new VFR. But everything else mentioned about Honda barely touching the engine, keeping the frame... makes it hard to get excited about that cash drop.

I'll be keeping an eye out for the seasonal price drops, though the season in Northern Cali never really stops.  Fly-ride!

Honda doesnt really seem like they're interested in reinventing the wheel, merely coasting on it.

The Africa Twin is a pretty neat entry but other than that, what have they really done in the last however many years of motorcycling?  That's not a rhetorical question by the way.  As a new motorcyclist im interested in hearing what more experienced, seasoned riders have to say about this.

Im not knocking them as i believe they've obviously had a pretty significant impact on two wheeled fun BUT where others are pushing the bar, Honda is merely resting their hands on it.  The VFR is simply too expensive for what it is when you compare it to other bikes on paper.  In practice, it is nigh perfect but most red blooded males want power and more of it.  Its hard to justify a 13k price tag on a bike that only makes 100 BHP and weighs ALOT.  If i was in the market for a bike right now, id try and snap up one of those leftover 14's as a price tag in the mid 8's seems BEYOND reasonable for the package that is the 8th gen VFR.

As a Honda apologist and VF/R loyalist from year 1 (1983 to be exact) I find it increasingly difficult to explain their direction the past decade. I keep waiting for the other shoe to fall and everyone to give a collective "Ahhhhh....now I get it."

Honda has taken a corporate approach that I believed they learned from their automotive competitors at GM and Ford. They now price a vehicle so that they can offer amazing discounts to influence monthly buying trends. If you are looking at a new Civic or Accord and cross shopping it against a new Mazda then you will be disappointed that Mazda cannot drop the price $6,000 on a Mazda 3 as Honda can on an Accord when in reality Honda have an additional $2,000 they could move if pushed.  This is how they do their motorcycles now as well. A new VFR is released in 2014 with eye popping pricing (to some) for a rewarmed chassis and engine approaching 12 years of age. A few people pay list price or above and adopt the bikes within the first 4-8 months. Then the price drops $5,000-6,000 dollars and they start to move more. How does the guy or girl who purchased one within the first 6 months feel now that they owe more on their bike than a new one sells for? What type of future behavior does this instill in the masses who see it happen again and again?

An HRC executive who was in GP racing more than a decade ago would apparently stand up and in interviews tell it like it was...while his interpreter would change the intent of what he was saying to make it sound like corporate platitudes..."blah blah blah, We won a hard fought contest this weekend against difficult competitors who challenge us to the extremity daily...blah blah blah"  At one race his Honda employee translator was suffering from travel difficulties and was not yet at the press conference so a volunteer from the audience was enlisted to interpret.  That is when the fireworks began. The HRC boss said basically that even though Kawasaki had done well this weekend or Suzuki had won a race recently that Honda was still the leader. That from time to time another manufacturer might pass Honda on the track but these competitors lacked vision and when in a position of leading they would always have to stop and see what Honda would do next because it was truly Honda that set the course for the industry regardless of who may appear to be in front on the rare occasion that Honda was not dominating on the track as they always dominate in research, design, engineering and manufacturing...he was about at this point in the silent press conference with all of the normal GP circus writers diligently recording his words as translated when his Honda translator came into the room adn turned bright red and immediately started translating into the normal corporate jargon again.

But I fear that Honda as a whole have lost that spirit of leadership that Soichiro founded the company on. I see very few areas where they lead now and as many "innovations" are "developed" by the marketing group as the engineering department.

Both the 7th and 8th iteration of the VF/R models are great bikes. Not a great bike at the list price but I know that if the 2015 VFR800DLX had a list price of $8,800 or $9,750 with hard bags they would sell a helluva lot more. The VFR1200 that I spent 10 days on in Europe last fall is also a great bike. A great bike that needs to have hard bags included and the suspension done to approach a fair value at the list price.  As they come standard without bags it should be approximately $10,000 plus $1,200 for the bags (all three).

On the subject of fit and finish Honda is still near the top of the heap but the details do detract. For example, he after-thought of a traction control switch on the VFR800 looks like it was placed there with a gob of glue by a grade schooler who got to the end of their science fair project and realized that for a bike that would be compared to competitors approaching $15k out the door that they needed to add a TC switch and some black box magic.

I am still a Honda apologist but it is increasingly unlikely that I will only own Hondas going forward and I can count on one hand the number of non-Honda bikes that I have owned over the past 40 years.

I'm in the throes of this topic right now. Feeling like I want to increase the safety envelope around me (ABS, TC) during my 70 mi r/t commute as I await the birth of my second child, my 6th gen ('02) rides great though feels dated without the electronic extras (again, just for safety, not for pure motorcycling joy). Having just changed the clutch and brake fluid as well as coolant, and fixed up some broken plastic rivets to cut down on rattle... the riding experience with Staintunes, Heli bars, NWS hugger, Penske rear and revalved fronts... it's dialed in and great.

Now feels like the window of opportunity though, with an implicit ok from the wifey (who can argue against safety?), before I have two kids to entertain on weekends.  Took the FJ-09 for a ride, fun motor, but the riding position made me slouch and fit and finish was not up to VFR standard.  Something about that insecty looking front as well.

Tomorrow I test an R1200RS. Kinda wish I didn't read all the negative stuff from other guys on here as it may have biased me, but the cost alone gives me great pause. That leaves a test ride on the new Interceptor, which is not easy to come by it seems.  The reach on my '02, even with Heli bars, is a bit long so that's my biggest concern (I'm about 6'1", 33" inseam) with the new VFR. But everything else mentioned about Honda barely touching the engine, keeping the frame... makes it hard to get excited about that cash drop.

I'll be keeping an eye out for the seasonal price drops, though the season in Northern Cali never really stops.  Fly-ride!

The RS was a comfortable bike, but it had no soul, IMO.  I also hated that boxer engine.  It is not a sports bike engine.  I wanted my old 5th gen back in a hurry.  You'll have to decide for your self.  Post your opinion here.

Magsz, on 28 Jul 2015 - 1:04 PM, said:Both the 7th and 8th iteration of the VF/R models are great bikes. Not a great bike at the list price but I know that if the 2015 VFR800DLX had a list price of $8,800 or $9,750 with hard bags they would sell a helluva lot more. The VFR1200 that I spent 10 days on in Europe last fall is also a great bike. A great bike that needs to have hard bags included and the suspension done to approach a fair value at the list price.  As they come standard without bags it should be approximately $10,000 plus $1,200 for the bags (all three).

:laughing6-hehe:

Um, you DO realize a CBR600RR lists for $11,490, right??

Just some of the modern day competition: FJ-09. List price is $10,500 with center stand, ABS, and traction control, more power, and less weight than VFR (hard bags are extra).

If VFR800 DLX was LIST at $11,500 I think they would sell plenty.

Link to picture with bags is: http://www.cycleworl...37906/137925/15

FJ-09 review: http://www.cycleworl...specifications/

Whether you're over the whole concept of showing off your manhood by way of horsepower or not, even the most sedate of us dont mind having more power on tap simply because its nice to have, not necessarily needed but nice nonetheless.

When shopping for bikes, or anything for that matter, the numbers on paper mean quite a bit to me.  At 12.5 list price for a basic model, the numbers arent that impressive.

I know this isnt everything but i think part of the mental block that *i* have with this bike is the fact that i picked up a sixth gen for 3100 dollars with 4500 miles on it.  Why would i pay four times that amount for something that is basically the same as my eight year old bike?  I think alot of VFR lovers are in the same boat.

Honda definitely does NOT ascribe to the Iphone business model.  This is potentially a good or bad thing based upon where you stand.

Just some of the modern day competition: FJ-09. List price is $10,500 with center stand, ABS, and traction control, more power, and less weight than VFR (hard bags are extra).

If VFR800 DLX was LIST at $11,500 I think they would sell plenty.

The current FJ-09 is definitely a value leader.  More power and torque and lighter too, although the 4.8 gallon tank would irritate the living shit out of me,  But it's still significantly past CornerCarver's fantasy pricing model.

Whether you're over the whole concept of showing off your manhood by way of horsepower or not, even the most sedate of us dont mind having more power on tap simply because its nice to have, not necessarily needed but nice nonetheless.

When shopping for bikes, or anything for that matter, the numbers on paper mean quite a bit to me.  At 12.5 list price for a basic model, the numbers arent that impressive.

I know this isnt everything but i think part of the mental block that *i* have with this bike is the fact that i picked up a sixth gen for 3100 dollars with 4500 miles on it.  Why would i pay four times that amount for something that is basically the same as my eight year old bike?  I think alot of VFR lovers are in the same boat.

Honda definitely does NOT ascribe to the Iphone business model.  This is potentially a good or bad thing based upon where you stand.

Well yeah, I'd love a sub-400 lb bike with 250 BHP but I can't afford a MotoGP bike right now.  And I certainly don't need that power.  I'm not racing anyone and when it comes down to pulling away from stoplights or from aggressive assholes in cars, I have no problems at all.

Of course if some dickhead didn't run over my 4th gen and total it I'd still be riding that.

Sorry but I have no idea what you mean about the iPhone business model.

Magsz, on 28 Jul 2015 - 1:04 PM, said:Both the 7th and 8th iteration of the VF/R models are great bikes. Not a great bike at the list price but I know that if the 2015 VFR800DLX had a list price of $8,800 or $9,750 with hard bags they would sell a helluva lot more. The VFR1200 that I spent 10 days on in Europe last fall is also a great bike. A great bike that needs to have hard bags included and the suspension done to approach a fair value at the list price.  As they come standard without bags it should be approximately $10,000 plus $1,200 for the bags (all three).

:laughing6-hehe:

Um, you DO realize a CBR600RR lists for $11,490, right??

Ahh, good one.  :beer:  And that would be pertinent  to this discussion if it was still a CBR600F4i or some other 15 year old design of an engine and chassis.

Current RaceReplicas are on a 2-3 year overhaul cycle (except for the very long in the tooth CBR1000RR which consistently gets it azz kicked at the track).

Are you suggesting that you would pay $11,500 for a CBR 600 plus fees?

But you shouldn't listen to me. The market has spoken and Honda dealers have dropped the actual prices until bikes started moving out the door in greater numbers instead of just sitting on the floor.

Current RaceReplicas are on a 2-3 year overhaul cycle (except for the very long in the tooth CBR1000RR which consistently gets it azz kicked at the track).

I'm in the throes of this topic right now. Feeling like I want to increase the safety envelope around me (ABS, TC) during my 70 mi r/t commute as I await the birth of my second child, my 6th gen ('02) rides great though feels dated without the electronic extras (again, just for safety, not for pure motorcycling joy). Having just changed the clutch and brake fluid as well as coolant, and fixed up some broken plastic rivets to cut down on rattle... the riding experience with Staintunes, Heli bars, NWS hugger, Penske rear and revalved fronts... it's dialed in and great.

Now feels like the window of opportunity though, with an implicit ok from the wifey (who can argue against safety?), before I have two kids to entertain on weekends.  Took the FJ-09 for a ride, fun motor, but the riding position made me slouch and fit and finish was not up to VFR standard.  Something about that insecty looking front as well.

Tomorrow I test an R1200RS. Kinda wish I didn't read all the negative stuff from other guys on here as it may have biased me, but the cost alone gives me great pause. That leaves a test ride on the new Interceptor, which is not easy to come by it seems.  The reach on my '02, even with Heli bars, is a bit long so that's my biggest concern (I'm about 6'1", 33" inseam) with the new VFR. But everything else mentioned about Honda barely touching the engine, keeping the frame... makes it hard to get excited about that cash drop.

I'll be keeping an eye out for the seasonal price drops, though the season in Northern Cali never really stops.  Fly-ride!

The RS was a comfortable bike, but it had no soul, IMO.  I also hated that boxer engine.  It is not a sports bike engine.  I wanted my old 5th gen back in a hurry.  You'll have to decide for your self.  Post your opinion here.

Ridered-- I just did a writeup of my test ride this morning:

http://www.vfrdiscus...-20k/?p=1008192

Sorry but I have no idea what you mean about the iPhone business model.

A new model, every year with incremental updates.  Some updates being useless, others being useful.  People will flock just to get the latest and greatest just to say they've got it whether or not there is any actual realized utility behind the purchase.

Dunno, the Honda dealer here in Long Island CIty, in Queens and walking distance from Manhattan, treats me really well.

The small dealer in Nyack where I got one of my 4th gens, he was a total cork-soaker.  Human excrement.  No shock when his business closed a couple of years later.

Our BMW Manhattan dealer is SO awful that I was compelled to write a web page partially about the suck-fest there.

Triumph is a mixed bag, with horror stories about a shop in Nassau County yet nothing but high praise for a shop near Bear Mountain.

Sometimes it's just a matter of finding the right dealer, regardless of marque.

Soon after I bought my 8th gen in LIC, that shop gave my nephew a substantially better deal on a special order CBR300R than any of the NJ dealers local to him would offer - even one that had the bike on their showroom floor.  And the LIC shop dropped it off in his driveway fifty miles and two expensive bridge tolls away in NJ.

They also take appointments for service while-u-wait.

My comment about honda versus bmw and triumph was focused mainly on making life easy when choosing and buying a bike. My experience, though limited (4 bike purchases), is that honda dealers don't stock a full array of test bikes and don't offer test rides to purchasers unless part of a "ride along special event". They seem to think you should just buy a bike and hope it works for you -- that's if its in stock. This has been my experience with three honda dealers in my  area.

Bmw and triumph stock a full array of bikes for test rides and encourage you to take a test ride. 

I don't think this observation is anything new just stating it more to make the point that vfr sales suffer due to the lack of dlx models in stock and the lack of dealer's encouraging test rides.  You can't sell what you don't have and certainly if you don't promote it. My two closest dealers kept telling me I didn't want to buy a vfr since it was an old man's bike. I have gray hair so I don't understand why there is a mismatch -- :)

I too have had less than stellar service experience with my triumph dealer even though I have purchased two bikes from them. They seem very focused on selling but service not so much of a priority. 

I have actually had good experience from my closest honda dealer service department and accessories. They have been quite good now that I think about it.

I meant to go back and edit my post about this - interesting that as much as I hate BMW Manhattan they do (or used to, at least) offer full-weekend test rides on certain model bikes.

After being on the FZ8 for about 2 years now and then riding my wife's new 8th Gen, I can say that I had forgot what good wind protection the VFR has. The FZ8 has excellent fuel injection, and with the Guhl reflash to get rid of the factory restrictions, that bike is truly amazing. However, I think it might be time to come back to the fold as I do miss the wind protection for commuting and long distance touring. I just had an offer from my dealer on a Red 2014 Standard with 0 miles for $6,800 out the door. Now that puts the price of the 8th Gen in competition with any other bike and the fact that the factory luggage system is amazing and the bike can be ridden comfortably on long rides has me thinking that it might be time to let the FZ8 find a new home and come back to the VFR. Anyone looking for a truly amazing canyon carver with every farkle known to man send me a PM  :wheel: .

I just had an offer from my dealer on a Red 2014 Standard with 0 miles for $6,800 out the door. Now that puts the price of the 8th Gen in competition with any other bike 

:ohmy:

I just had an offer from my dealer on a Red 2014 Standard with 0 miles for $6,800 out the door. Now that puts the price of the 8th Gen in competition with any other bike 

:ohmy:

The VF800 F sells for 10600 euros (ie 12k$) currently here in France.

The is your Deluxe US version. We don't have your "standard" version here in Europe.

These days there is a lot of competition from naked style bikes eg Yamaha MT09 and soon to be MT10 which have gained in popularity over the fully faired mid size sportstourers like the VFR which despite its update is showing its age concept wise with its highish center of gravity and weight and much slower handling than a lot of the more modern bikes.

I am not knocking the VFRs (I have 2 of them) but riding some of the more modern bikes mentioned above with their more comfortable ergos is quite a revelation.

Sorry, but I got the VFR in part because I like those ergos.  I am also a sucker for 90 degree engines.

I can't believe I'm starting to see new 2014 8th gens for $7k & $8k USD on the dealer floor now... prices are dropping already!

That is amazing.  I paid $8,500 for my 5th gen when it was new - 15 years ago! 

That is amazing.  I paid $8,500 for my 5th gen when it was new - 15 years ago!

 
I used an online inflation calculator which states: "What cost $7000 in 2014 would cost $4985.64 in 1999."
 
FIVE GRAND! 
 
Saw this recently in a magazine: Bikes in general are less expensive now in real dollars.

14 hours ago, Baileyrock

Hahaha, Well that makes a big difference Big Jim! I knew that and thought that an 8th gen SUBframe might be a great mod for a 6th gen which has a 20 lb pig of a rear subframe. 

BR 

I would never try to one up you BR.  Nobody knows more about VFR's than you.  VFR's cringe when you walk by them because they know you can make them go past warp speed and never get their valves adjusted since you've proven it's unnecessary.  I do believe that.  ; )  

11 hours ago, Bent

I would never try to one up you BR.  Nobody knows more about VFR's than you.  VFR's cringe when you walk by them because they know you can make them go past warp speed and never get their valves adjusted since you've proven it's unnecessary.  I do believe that.  ; )  

I don't know shitz, but did know about the frame/subframes!  (-:

8 minutes ago, Baileyrock

I don't know shitz, but did know about the frame/subframes!  (-:

There's no telling how much that knowledge will propel you to fame and fortune some day.  Heck, you're already there.   ; )  

52 minutes ago, Bent

There's no telling how much that knowledge will propel you to fame and fortune some day.  Heck, you're already there.   ; )  

What was the question????

10 hours ago, Baileyrock

What was the question????

You were asking about the best oil to use in a VFR.......;  )

Jeez, BR and Bent.  Next you guys will start comparing hand sizes.  :tongue:

I love my 6th gen.  In fact, I love it enough that I might just buy an 8th gen. when I'm ready to part with my 6th gen.  But I think that day is still a couple years away, due mostly to household finances.  Plus I'd also love to see 100k miles on my odometer before I'm done.  (82k now and counting!)

From what I can tell looking at the bike and reading rider and magazine reviews, the 8th gen. (especially the Deluxe in the US) is definitely a step up from the 6th.  Better engine performance and fueling, better suspension, lighter weight, better lights, integrated luggage mounts (I think), upgraded electrical system, traction control and better ABS, stock heated grips, and a lower center of gravity.  MSRP may be overpriced, but for what 8th gens. are selling for now at most US dealers, it's a deal.

IMHO, the reason they're not selling well is because it's too well-rounded a machine - which is why VFRs have never sold well here in the US.  Most people want either a true sportbike to rocket around on in town (and because that's what their friends have) or a cruiser to ride at a relaxed pace (and because that's what their friends have).  Most people aren't looking for all-day comfort to get you to the mountain roads and then great performance once you're there.  That, and new model VFRs have been overpriced.  Maybe now that the prices have come down we'll see more people buying 8th gens., but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm also not holding my breath for a lighter weight 1000cc VFR from Honda.  The fact that the last couple models have sold so poorly here has to be a huge influence on Big Red's future plans for the model.  :sad:   But I'm also an optimist, so I'm hopeful future generations will be even better!

They've never sold well Tim.  As far as price, anybody that pays anywhere near list has too much money or is plain stupid.  There is a dealer near me that people fly in from all over the country to buy from because of.......price.     :wink:

Some places get it and some places don't.

Here's an excellent example of one that doesn't: If you look on cycletrader right now, there's a dealership in Oregon that's got a new 2010 VFR1200 on "clearance" for $17,499. Don't believe me? Look it up.

14 hours ago, 2FAST4U

Some places get it and some places don't.

Here's an excellent example of one that doesn't: If you look on cycletrader right now, there's a dealership in Oregon that's got a new 2010 VFR1200 on "clearance" for $17,499. Don't believe me? Look it up.

It's going to be on "clearance" for a long time.  

TimC, 5/18/2016 at 3:23 PM

From what I can tell looking at the bike and reading rider and magazine reviews, the 8th gen. (especially the Deluxe in the US) is definitely a step up from the 6th.  Better engine performance and fueling, better suspension, lighter weight, better lights, integrated luggage mounts (I think), upgraded electrical system, traction control and better ABS, stock heated grips, and a lower center of gravity.  MSRP may be overpriced, but for what 8th gens. are selling for now at most US dealers, it's a deal.
 

I just traded my 6th gen in on an 8th gen and I just want to say everything you have written here (so far) seems to be 100% spot on. 

I paid just north of $8500 out the door for my new 8th gen (DLX) and for the cost I am 110% satisfied. The bike just works...better. It feels very familiar but just a little bit better at everything. The heated grip integration is great, the turn signals have been fantastic for me, the new wheels are gorgeous, the headlights are amazing, I could go on and on. I loved both of my 6th gen bikes, but the 8th feels even better. 

Would I love to see a 1000cc VFR that has a wet weight of around 435? You bet, but I am fine waiting for it with my 800cc fat ass =)

3 minutes ago, thebigtea

I just traded my 6th gen in on an 8th gen and I just want to say everything you have written here (so far) seems to be 100% spot on. 

I paid just north of $8500 out the door for my new 8th gen (DLX) and for the cost I am 110% satisfied. The bike just works...better. It feels very familiar but just a little bit better at everything. The heated grip integration is great, the turn signals have been fantastic for me, the new wheels are gorgeous, the headlights are amazing, I could go on and on. I loved both of my 6th gen bikes, but the 8th feels even better. 

Would I love to see a 1000cc VFR that has a wet weight of around 435? You bet, but I am fine waiting for it with my 800cc fat ass =)

Was that price for a new bike from a dealers?

2 minutes ago, Nelix

Was that price for a new bike from a dealers?

Yes sir. I asked about 35 times to make sure there where no hidden, crazy fees. It was 7989 + set up and tax. That was it. 

Needless to say I am very pleased.

FFS! Christ on a bike, etc.

Mine was $15,200 over here. You guys have no idea how lucky you are, we pay more for everything, fuel, food etc.

All we have going for us is the NHS, free healthcare.

Oh, and that we would never be dumb enough to let Donald Trump anywhere near a position of power.

15 hours ago, Nelix

FFS! Christ on a bike, etc.

Mine was $15,200 over here. You guys have no idea how lucky you are, we pay more for everything, fuel, food etc.

All we have going for us is the NHS, free healthcare.

Oh, and that we would never be dumb enough to let Donald Trump anywhere near a position of power.

Can you confirm that the new Yamaha MT10 is actually cheaper than a new VFR800 in the UK?

Yup £9,999  compared to Vfr £10,600  mfr rep prices.

But you could have checked that yourself.

17 hours ago, Nelix

FFS! Christ on a bike, etc.

Mine was $15,200 over here. You guys have no idea how lucky you are, we pay more for everything, fuel, food etc.

All we have going for us is the NHS, free healthcare.

Oh, and that we would never be dumb enough to let Donald Trump anywhere near a position of power.

Maybe that's why you have fewer fat people over there and if we vote in Hillary, we will be paying more for everything.  Trump threatens people that don't believe in working.  He also likes VFR's.  

6 hours ago, dogman

Can you confirm that the new Yamaha MT10 is actually cheaper than a new VFR800 in the UK?

Tempted by the MT10? I am :)

Hope its brought to USA .

12 hours ago, fink

Yup £9,999  compared to Vfr £10,600  mfr rep prices.

But you could have checked that yourself.

I did, but it didnt seem right. They are talking prices of around 20K in Oz althought the actual price is not released yet whereas the 8th gen is less than 15K

I paid about $8,600 for my dlx OTD last month here in WI, dealer had 4 dlx and they're all sold now but they still have some non-dlx for sale in the 7's (otd)

Nelix, 5/20/2016 at 11:18 AM

FFS! Christ on a bike, etc.

Mine was $15,200 over here. You guys have no idea how lucky you are, we pay more for everything, fuel, food etc.

All we have going for us is the NHS, free healthcare.

Oh, and that we would never be dumb enough to let Donald Trump anywhere near a position of power.

It's a shame you have to pay so much for the bike  BUT I work for the U.S. federal government and my share of cost for health insurance is nearly $1000 month to cover my wife and me!   That's for Kaiser HMO health insurance.    The thing is here in the states one trip to hospital for a few days is easily a six figure bill, in fact medical bills are a leading cause of bankruptcy for folks that work for a living here, always has been.   My wife is from Scotland and absolutely feels the same as you, Americans are absolutely nuts for allowing a complete narcissist to get anywhere near anything more meaningful than a reality television show. 

Enjoy your VFR and be happy you live in Scotland, it's not perfect but lord knows we got our problems here in the states as well.

the cost of the medical bills in the US is really crazy. I never understood why a short visit (10 min) to a doctor at the hospital would cost 500 bucks.

Do you know where all that money goes ?

Ten percent plus of a doctor's income goes to liability.

Secondly, supply and demand is a killer. A hundred years ago the thought process was to avoid the doctor at all costs. Today people visit the doctor for everything. People are consuming millions more times in healthcare than they used to. What would you do as a business person if every hour, of every day, of every week, of every year, people poured in through your door? You must raise your rate to control it. That is the biggest killer, despite the conspiracies on evil profit takers. The demand for elective healthcare is infinite today. 

Agree, but also factor in insurance. Most of the time, the only meaningful money a family doctor's office sees, IS the copay. They are contractually obligated by the plans they accept, to charge ~$150, so the $35 copay makes insurance look useful. Now that it's required, it will go the way of auto insurance. Mutual inflation. 

Imnho, requiring the purchase of anything should be a crime itself. Yes, it is idiotic not to carry some insurance, but leave that to the idiots. 

3 hours ago, sdouble

the cost of the medical bills in the US is really crazy. I never understood why a short visit (10 min) to a doctor at the hospital would cost 500 bucks.

Do you know where all that money goes ?

The money goes to monopolistic insurance companies, the inefficiencies caused by Obamadon'tcare, malpractice insurance, mountains of paperwork (in a paperless society) required by Hippa and the govt., and hospitals that must treat people that use the emergency room as their primary care physician, without insurance, at your cost.  The medical system, like the federal govt., is one of the most inefficient systems in the country.  My daughter is a nurse practitioner with a required directing physician.  She is setting up her cash only for treatment clinic and expects to make exponentially more money.  Pay her now or go elsewhere.  Pretty disgusting system that has forced a medical care provider to accept cash only.  Now, back to motorcycles.  Ride them safely so you don't need medical care.  ; )