Single Nut Rear Axle Conversion - 6Th Gen

I've embarked on doing a single nut rear axle conversion to my 6th Gen/5th Gen VFR825.

Mohawk did it a couple of years ago and I used his ideas but ended up with a brand new RC45 rear wheel instead of the carbon wheel like Mohawk. (Yep, I got hold of a pair of RC45 wheels that a guy has had in a cupboard unused since the mid nineties)

The donor axle was a VFR400 and so is the caliper, disk, and caliper carrier.

Had to get the taper spacer for the wheel and a new nut and shim, from an RC45 via Partzilla and Tyga Performance.

When I started, I could not find a donor VFR400 (NC30) so I used an axle from an MC28 but found that the MC28 axle is made from lower tensile steel and it's internal profile is quite different and I felt weaker than the NC30 axle. I would advise anyone doing this mod to use the NC30 donor parts and not the MC28.

The cush drive assembly is based on a Ducati quick change unit from JT and I've used a set of urethane bobbins instead of the genuine Ducati SilentBloc rubber ones.

In the end this has shaved 3.0kg off the unsprung weight on the rear.

The assembly drawing lists all the parts used including the part numbers and suppliers.

If anyone wants to go down the same route, I've made a full set of CAD drawings and these, along with photos, are below.

Disk and axle

Cush Drive Assembly and Rebuilt/painted NC30 caliper

Cush Drive and Axle assembled

Caliper fitted

All fitted up

Chain guard/hugger fitted and brake hose/sensor cable bound

RC45 wheel, Tyga spacer and Wheel nut

Drawings

Cush Drive Assembly.pdf

Axle machining dwg 1.pdf

Caliper Mounting Plate.pdf

Cush Drive Backing Plate.pdf

Cush Drive Retainer Washer.pdf

Sprocket Carrier.pdf

Let me be the first to congratulate you. Nice work, as always.

Are you running a 190 rear tire?

Show bike , great job ..

wow...drool...wow...

That looks fantastic! The wheel looks great but that that new cush drive assembly looks so exotic!

I wish I had the skills and resources to do such mods......

It looks like a lot of work, but the product is worth it!

The cush drive is a sweet idea. I might have to give it a go.

Wow great post and with pdf documents to boot, you have upped the ante for posting a "how-to" thread. Nice Job!

That oozes awesomeness!

Thanks for all the comments.

Yes the wheel 6.00x17 so I'm now running a 190/50x17 tyre.

If the weather is good over the weekend I'll get it out for a test and take some full bike shots.

Lovely work.

Here is the link to Mohawks thread on the VFR400 rear axle and the cush drive.

Sorry, I should have included this in the original post.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/72914-custom-cush-drive-for-vfr800-vfr400-axle/

Cheers

Phil

Holy Crap Phil!

I love that cush drive solution. I have been trying to find a simple single-nut solution that does not add weight (like the Triumph is reported to) for my VFR.

Great post and once again your attention to detail is in documenting this upgrade is as good as your problem solving and engineering work on the upgrade.

Very beautiful work.

Honda, HighSide has the ultimate VFR mold. How about you get to work cranking some replicas out!?!

:warranty:

HighSideNZ

Thanks for all the comments.

Yes the wheel 6.00x17 so I'm now running a 190/50x17 tyre.

If the weather is good over the weekend I'll get it out for a test and take some full bike shots.

when i put the 1098 6 inch wheel on, i ran a 190/55, but it felt heavy. I changed it to a 190/55 and handling felt sharp again.

And Brilliant job, by the way, absolutely awesome.

CornerCarver

Holy Crap Phil!

I love that cush drive solution. I have been trying to find a simple single-nut solution that does not add weight (like the Triumph is reported to) for my VFR.

Great post and once again your attention to detail is in documenting this upgrade is as good as your problem solving and engineering work on the upgrade.

1098S rear wheel is forged al, and weighs nothing. But you have to change the front as well otherwise your wheels won't match.

5 gen arm, ducati hub, ducati wheel, a spacer and a shim. Is the 5th arm very different to the 6th arm?

This bike should be in the Barber Motorsports Museum. It's mechanical art - just beautiful.

Way to go Phil, looks great. Mine feels much softer on the chain with those new urethane bobbins than it did with the old Ducati ones.

Still not convinced on the colour of them though, but if you have a red bike then it fits, totally at odds with my Blue one though.

Hmm, must paint my rear caliper to match the front ones in a nice gold ;). Another little winter job on the list.

Hey thanks again guys.

All the qudos for the initial ideas has to go to Mohawk though.

Seems that red is the only colour you can get urethane. Even back in the '80s buying urethane bar stock, it was always red.

Yep, agree, red and blue not the best combination.

I've been toying with the idea of painting my front calipers gold as well since I did the new rear one. Gold, red and black really do go together well.

Keef

I take it you meant 190/50 is what you ended up with.

190/55 would be too high in the profile I thought.

The 190/50 is about the same rolling radius as the original 180/55 that I was running.

CornerCarver

Holy Crap Phil!

I love that cush drive solution.

Great post and once again your attention to detail in documenting this upgrade is as good as your problem solving and engineering work on the upgrade.

What he said!!

Welcome to the single nut club, looks like it's about to add more members.

Very nice, looking forward to seeing some shots of the whole bike.

HighSideNZ

The cush drive assembly is based on a Ducati quick change unit from JT and I've used a set of urethane bobbins instead of the genuine Ducati SilentBloc rubber ones.

In the end this has shaved 3.0kg off the unsprung weight on the rear.

Kel

Welcome to the single nut club, looks like it's about to add more members.

This is absolutely the BEST way to join The Single Nut Club.

Kel

Welcome to the single nut club, looks like it's about to add more members.

If you're in the single nut club, you can still have kids . . . so plan accordingly. :wink:

Well went for the first ride today, just to make sure everything held together.

No problems at all, it all stayed tight and functioned as expected.

Just need to bed the rear brake in and we should be all go.

The whole driveline feels more taught with no play in anything as the urethane bobbins are a press fit into the sprocket carrier.

Seems to be smooth down to about 3k rpm, then you need to drop a gear to pull away cleanly.

I'll post a couple of full bike photos a bit later.

That's something I forgot to mention as well, the bike used to need a gear change around 2750rpm, will now work fine at 2250-2500 :)

Here are a couple of shots of the complete bike. Left and right.

Nah. Too much gold if I went gold wheels I think.

Bigger pics please Phil. I reckon black wheels are the go and personally I'd lose the rim strips, but not my bike and a bike always looks different in the metal anyway, and usually better than in photos.

The next thing you need to do is buy zRoYz's A&A supercharger that he's not using... this could be the first 200hp+ VFR

It's beautiful.  I could never keep it clean, though.  Wet it down and ride it down a dusty backroad, then take some pics.  I want to see what it would look like if I owned it!  :wacko:

Top notch stuff as always Phil!

CornerCarver

keef

CornerCarver

keef

CornerCarver

Holy Crap Phil!

I love that cush drive solution. I have been trying to find a simple single-nut solution that does not add weight (like the Triumph is reported to) for my VFR.

Great post and once again your attention to detail is in documenting this upgrade is as good as your problem solving and engineering work on the upgrade.

1098S rear wheel is forged al, and weighs nothing. But you have to change the front as well otherwise your wheels won't match.

5 gen arm, ducati hub, ducati wheel, a spacer and a shim. Is the 5th arm very different to the 6th arm?

I have a Marchesini forged wheel from an 848 (5.5 width) as well as a matching front. However, the two separate Ducati hubs I have purchased to attempt the simple "shim around the circumference" method of installing into my Honda swingarm have both presented challenges. I am now unsure what model Duc these actually came from (1 was supposed to be from an 848 and the other from a 749 IIRC).

To answer your question on the differences between 5G and 6G swingarms the 5G arm is approximately 25mm shorter in length but aside from that is effectively the same.

HighSideNZ

Here are a couple of shots of the complete bike. Left and right.

[image: attachicon.gif]20150801_114530.jpg

[image: attachicon.gif]20150801_114545.jpg

IF Honda built this and sold it as an 8G VFR I would stop bitching about the price of the actual 8G VFR's and buy one even though it has a 15 year old chassis design and an even older engine design! :wink:

the 1098 works, but it has the big axle, the 848 has a smaller axle. I've only got a standard 848 front, couldn't find a forged front when i was looking

So you are saying that I screwed up in selecting the 5.5" wide wheel from the 848 because it utilizes a smaller axle and therefore cannot be simply fitted into the VFR swingarm with the 1.5mm shim surrounding the hub?

Had I gone with the large axle 1098 wheel and the matching large axle hub from a 1098 it would have been more easily fitted to the VFR swingarm?

I didn't even think about axle sizes, I just wanted a 6inch wheel, so went with the 1098. Got lucky that it was an easy swap.

I'll take the forged 848 front wheel off your hands, just to help out.

keef

CornerCarver

keefthe 1098 works, but it has the big axle, the 848 has a smaller axle. I've only got a standard 848 front, couldn't find a forged front when i was looking

So you are saying that I screwed up in selecting the 5.5" wide wheel from the 848 because it utilizes a smaller axle and therefore cannot be simply fitted into the VFR swingarm with the 1.5mm shim surrounding the hub?

Had I gone with the large axle 1098 wheel and the matching large axle hub from a 1098 it would have been more easily fitted to the VFR swingarm?

Can't say for sure since I haven't tried the 848, but probably, I belive the 749s had a smaller axle as well.

I didn't even think about axle sizes, I just wanted a 6inch wheel, so went with the 1098. Got lucky that it was an easy swap.

I'll take the forged 848 front wheel off your hands, just to help out.

916, 996, 998, 748, Hypermotard, Multistrada, 848 and 848 Evo are the same rear axle.

749 was dual sided swingarm.

Nice job and a good presentation.. You have gone quite a bit beyond the point where most of the owners would customize their ride... You cleaned up Honda's cush but I believe no cush is even better...

Nice work. I bought my single-nut conversion/wheel. You made yours. Kudos to you, my friend!

Hi BusyLittleShop

thanks for the praise. Greatly appreciated.

With the urethane bobbins in the cush drive, you may as well say there is none, bar for them giving a little flex under load.

There is no slop in the drive at all but I do think for chain/sprocket life, the bobbins are a good alternative.

I've ridden many race bike with no cush and I understand exactly what you are saying, but for a roady, I think I still prefer a little give.

Very well done sir. Not to take anything away from your build, it's what Honda should have made in the first place. But H, then you wouldn't have had all the fun you have had, right ;) Whats next? Ti sub frame? Time to also reserve this thread too.

Funny you should mention the subframe.

I'm toying with a Chrome Moly replacement.

I can weld that but I cant weld Ti.

Just trying to source some tubing etc.

HighSideNZ

Funny you should mention the subframe.

I'm toying with a Chrome Moly replacement.

I can weld that but I cant weld Ti.

Just trying to source some tubing etc.

Would you be so kind as to explain why aluminium is left out? Welding equipment?

Fatigue on the aluminium for road use and panniers.

I'd feel much more confident with steel than ally in that situation.

But that should be just a feeling, I'm pretty sure steel is out on all sport bikes since the mid 90's?

Sent fra min SM-N910F via Tapatalk

HighSideNZ, 4/10/2016 at 1:12 AM

Fatigue on the aluminium for road use and panniers.

I'd feel much more confident with steel than ally in that situation.

As a sole reason, this is a bit silly. Thousands of airframes built of simple formed sheet endure far more abuse than your bike will see in 20 lifetimes - if engineered properly, your subframe could do the same.

Also, if you are capable of tig welding steel, then it is highly likely you can also learn to weld titanium. You can weld Ti outside a chamber, if that was your concern.

keef, 19/08/2015 at 12:10 PM

Can't say for sure since I haven't tried the 848, but probably, I belive the 749s had a smaller axle as well.

I didn't even think about axle sizes, I just wanted a 6inch wheel, so went with the 1098. Got lucky that it was an easy swap.

I'll take the forged 848 front wheel off your hands, just to help out.

[image: 69C2EC38-209C-4C6E-9BD1-9453E670889F.jpeg]

[image: 5C472A50-09A2-4B15-8749-EF465618E498.jpeg]

Is that a 1098/1198 or 848 wheel? Looks wicked! 

HighSideNZ, 8/1/2015 at 1:03 AM

Here are a couple of shots of the complete bike. Left and right.

[image: post-25941-0-40311500-1438416195.jpg]

[image: post-25941-0-19296400-1438416205.jpg]

HighsideNZ, I just stumbled across this thread and must echo the other compliments on your craftsmanship and documentation. Thank you for posting your machining spec drawings.

And to paraphrase Crocodile Dundee...

That's not an 8-spoke:[image: image.jpeg.cde5e9799167f6234ca9c0bcb288c514.jpeg]

That's an 8-spoke:[image: image.png.9a732f1f2416162e9d4f95f1b7fafb7d.png]

Bringing this thread back because............I finally finished my conversion -

Ducati, 848 rear hub, OZ 5.5" wheel, conversion kit from Extreme Creations in Oz, aftermarket cushdrive and sprocket kit, some Ti hardware as well.

About 100mi so far, no issues

[image: spacer.png][image: spacer.png][image: spacer.png][image: spacer.png][image: spacer.png][image: spacer.png]

Very nice!  :fing02:

6 spoke Oz racing wheels have broke during the rigors of a race... inspect your 5 spoke critical junction often...

[image: JettisonDucatWheeli.jpg]

[image: JettisonDucatiWheel.jpg]

Despite the "Racing" sticker it is not a track wheel - its the street version. May see a track day and an occasional passenger. 

Will be keeping an eye on it - the anti-theft lock goes through the rear wheel so I'll get a look everytime I park

Good plan... look closely and you can see the wheel fails one spoke at at time and not all at once... first sign might be a squirming sensation like rain groves or a deflated tire...

13 hours ago, BusyLittleShop

6 spoke Oz racing wheels have broke during the rigors of a race... inspect your 5 spoke critical junction often...

[image: JettisonDucatWheeli.jpg]

[image: JettisonDucatiWheel.jpg]

[image: JettisonDucatiWheel....jpg]

Just to qualify this particular wheel After investigation was discovered to be a hand me down from a sponsored team to the team where it broke, it was IIRC a magnesium Race wheel & had been crashed a few times & NEVER x-ray/dye checked. That’s why cheap secondhand race wheels should be avoided & magnesium ones never used on the road as there are prone Stress fractures. And on broken spoke on a marginally strong wheel is all it takes to overload the rest !

Poor Magnesium... the little known "metal of motion"... it deserves to be understood its fatigue strength is good...

Personally I've been running Dymags and Marchesini magnesium wheels on the street since 1982... that's 38 years of
worth of riding with no cracks noted... and I'm not known to ride in moderation either...

If you need to know if a small piece of metal is magnesium or not...
apply white vinegar directly to exposed bare metal... if it fizzes
it's safe to say magnesium... if it doesn't it can be any other metal
in the world...

GPz550 and my 3 spoke Dymags bought from Harris Performance the
day I visited the brothers shop in England...

[image: 265314032_ed2c82b432_o.jpg]

Mr.RC45's 3 spoke Marchesini magnesium wheels... rear 6x17 Rear Rim from Freddie Spencer's
RC30...$600 and front 3.5x17 Front Rim that was owned by Wayne Rainey when he sponsored

Jimmy Felice YZ250R... $500

[image: 315048023_c2710a3b99_o.jpg]
[image: 3193188896_9d34585b46_o.jpg]

My hand machined magnesium triple clamps in Dow 7...
[image: 1922147049_a35b7d3a42_o.jpg]

My hand machined magnesium caliper mounts...
[image: 833790051_b85a11c78b_o.jpg]
[image: 3193188896_9d34585b46_o.jpg]

3 hours ago, BusyLittleShop

3 hours ago, BusyLittleShop

[image: 3193188896_9d34585b46_o.jpg]

BLS, please tell us about your carbon-ceramic rotors -

-do they work on the street?

-how do they compare to stock?

-special pads required?

-where are they available

-i assume they're much lighter, but how much?

-do they require other modifications?

1 hour ago, jim v

BLS, please tell us about your carbon-ceramic rotors -

-do they work on the street?

-how do they compare to stock?

-special pads required?

-where are they available

-i assume they're much lighter, but how much?

-do they require other modifications?

They are Ceramic Matrix Composites...

Yes CMC work on the street cold or hot or wet or dry...

CMC bite that same as steel rotors...

CMC  do not require special pads...

CMC weight

Stock Honda 310mm stainless steel 3 lbs 4 oz

Ferodo 320mm Ductle Iron 2 lb 8 oz

Ceramic Matrix Composite 1 lb 7 oz

CMC don't require any other mods...

CMC aren't available any more due to cost... I paid $2,400 a set...

Performance features include:

    * Not thermally sensitive (will work great on the street)
    * Ultra broad torque curve across a very wide thermal range
    * Much longer lasting than Carbon / carbon
    * Much less expensive than Carbon / carbon
    * Great wet weather performance - unlike Carbon / carbon [not hygroscopic]
    * Terrific feel and feedback at the lever
    * Strong braking performance? We mean, Really strong: +.6 mu average friction with special Ferodo Racing brake pads

I also installed a CMC Ducati disc on the rear in a on going effort to reduce weight...

[image: CMCRC45Disc1.JPG]

Thanks for the info, seems like a much better solution than metal if cost is no object

I'm surprised they're no longer available - $2400 for a set of discs is expensive(!!) but I'm sure there's a small group of wealthy riders who would be willing to pay

18 hours ago, BusyLittleShop

Poor Magnesium... the little known "metal of motion"... it deserves to be understood its fatigue strength is good...

Personally I've been running Dymags and Marchesini magnesium wheels on the street since 1982... that's 38 years of
worth of riding with no cracks noted... and I'm not known to ride in moderation either...

If you need to know if a small piece of metal is magnesium or not...
apply white vinegar directly to exposed bare metal... if it fizzes
it's safe to say magnesium... if it doesn't it can be any other metal
in the world...

GPz550 and my 3 spoke Dymags bought from Harris Performance the
day I visited the brothers shop in England...

Mr.RC45's 3 spoke Marchesini magnesium wheels... rear 6x17 Rear Rim from Freddie Spencer's
RC30...$600 and front 3.5x17 Front Rim that was owned by Wayne Rainey when he sponsored

Jimmy Felice YZ250R... $500

My hand machined magnesium triple clamps in Dow 7...
 

My hand machined magnesium caliper mounts...

 

How do you insure the full value of all those parts and pieces?  A typical insurance company is going to pay book value on what is now  a 25+ y.o. bike.  And since most of the parts are out of production there are no comparative values.  

4 minutes ago, Cogswell

How do you insure the full value of all those parts and pieces?  A typical insurance company is going to pay book value on what is now  a 25+ y.o. bike.  And since most of the parts are out of production there are no comparative values.  

Not sure how BLS does it but there are ways. Antique auto insurers let you specify the amount of coverage, many caveats apply of course - vehicle must meet certain age requirement, must be driven less than so many miles per year, etc, etc

Would be crushing to lose the bike and all the hard work put into it but it doesn't have to be a financial hit as well

I have progressive insurance they insure the custom parts up to $3,000 standard a long as you can back it up when you file a claim ie receipts and pictures.

3 hours ago, Cogswell

How do you insure the full value of all those parts and pieces?  A typical insurance company is going to pay book value on what is now  a 25+ y.o. bike.  And since most of the parts are out of production there are no comparative values.  

I don't have full value coverage for any of my hand made parts... so when I trade rides with trusted VFRD members I risk loosing a lot of sweat equity...

I've been a steady and valued customer with State Farm since 1968...
however in 98 when I applied for full coverage on my fresh out of
Tijuana Mexico RC45 they couldn't it in their Great Motorcycle
Book... No problem agent advised... "go to the dealer to have it
appraised"... OK but the manager at the Carmichael Honda just signed a
blank appraisal form and said "Larry, fill in any amount you wish" so
in full view of the agent I was about to scribe $27,500 but the agent

said wait..."lets not do it like that" and he called the main office for
guidance...

So under a verbal agreement the agent stated... "State Farm is

insuring your bike, worth a small fortune; as a normal everyday 750...

If I have make a claim... it will be up to me to convince State Farm

serial # 002 RC45 is worth more than the $8,000 I paid..."

First premium cost $217 for 6 months...

Two Wheel Ordeal
[image: 17257358129_ed08516cb1_o.jpg]
[image: 16821079034_c45d15939c_o.jpg]

I don't know how the value of  it could be better documented.  Still . . .  Despite being a mutual (owned by policy holders) company, S.F. like all  insurance companies are not necessarily there to take care of your loss - they're there to make money.  I just keep my receipts for add ons and extras and hope if the worst happens I can do the same - convince them of the investment.  I was hoping there might be an agreed value solution, but alas, it appears not. 

I never realised your bike was a Canadian model (RC452).  US models were RC450 (or RC451 for California models, if any).  How many did they import to Canada?

Ciao,

JZH

JZH...

 Honda only imported 56 RC45s to North America in 1994... Vins #1 thru #5
were imported to Canada... Vins #6 thru #56 were imported to the US to
satisfy AMA 50 bike homologation rules. Freddie Spencer got Vin #6 the first
stateside RC45...

Hi guys I don't even have my bike yet and I'm already looking at wheel conversions it's a sickness!! (And I've ordered The TBR COPY headers) I have asked an eBay seller the weight of the attached wheel and it's 4.5 kilos apparently.I'm not sure myself, but what Do you guys think about how it would look on the VFR 6th gen?[image: 122ed5ce123cc57d74f19e971c45da13.jpg]

Sent from my ASUS_I01WD using Tapatalk

Testing testing....

Sent from my ASUS_I01WD using Tapatalk

Hot!!!!

lplplplp, 9/9/2020 at 2:09 AM

Hi guys I don't even have my bike yet and I'm already looking at wheel conversions it's a sickness!! (And I've ordered The TBR COPY headers) I have asked an eBay seller the weight of the attached wheel and it's 4.5 kilos apparently.I'm not sure myself, but what Do you guys think about how it would look on the VFR 6th gen?[image: 122ed5ce123cc57d74f19e971c45da13.jpg]

Sent from my ASUS_I01WD using Tapatalk
 

There’s a great thread on here about fitting the Ducati hub and wheel to a VFR. Well worth reading. 
 

Swap looks fantastic when complete and saves a bunch of weight! 

Stray There’s a great thread on here about fitting the Ducati hub and wheel to a VFR. Well worth reading. 
 
Swap looks fantastic when complete and saves a bunch of weight! 

I do...working on converting my 5th gen..

19 hours ago, vfrcapn

I do...working on converting my 5th gen..

[image: 20190723_211621.jpg]

cool, yeah its 5.5 isn't it? and have you weighed it? is it really 4.5KG? the seller said it was.

whats the engine cover I see?

@vfrcapn......Yes, weight each, very curious.... -- I am more the reduce weight junkie vs hp guy.... 

Mbe start your own new thread on your wheel project?

😎

I put the tire on already, I can weight both and start a new thread. With the Aussie convert kit it's just mechanical bolt on of bits, nothing too technical. This is a 6" Duc wheel, so a 190 tire.

Contact Sebspeed here on the forum for the clear clutch cover.

vfrcapn I put the tire on already, I can weight both and start a new thread. With the Aussie convert kit it's just mechanical bolt on of bits, nothing too technical. This is a 6" Duc wheel, so a 190 tire.
 
Contact Sebspeed here on the forum for the clear clutch cover.
 

vfrcapn, 9/16/2020 at 5:41 PM

I put the tire on already, I can weight both and start a new thread. With the Aussie convert kit it's just mechanical bolt on of bits, nothing too technical. This is a 6" Duc wheel, so a 190 tire.

Mike... Mr.RC45's 6" Marchesini is shod with a 180/55... the difference is illustrate in the drawing...