Hi,
I have been looking into making a single nut conversion for the Honda VFR800, because I like the way that it cleans up the rear of the bike and allow me to use other wheels, from a Ducati or other single sided swingarm bike.
I will do it on my VFR800 which is now being rebuild from a damaged bike, and taking form. more stuff is to be done to this bike:-) forks, rear end clocks(CBR1000RR) fairing for a CBR1000RR also, so many things are getting done.
The single nut conversion I was thinking of doing like the RC45 HRC axle and nut with left hand thread M46 and with a nut the same as the RC45 HRC one with 56 mm socket.
I have done it like BLS, Larry did on his RC45. Making an insert for the NC30/35 axle, press fitted and welded to the NC30 axle.
On my bike I am using a NC30 axle, you can use a NC35 also.
So if anybody else than me, is interested in this conversion, I took delivery this Saturday, of 8 sets of single nut conversions. It where cheaper for me to get all eight than just two sets for me and a friend. price for each set where 80 £ UK. Just the HRC RC45 nut is around 95 £ UK each from Honda.
I have the threaded part for the axle and the 46 mm nut with left hand thread. Price is depending on whether you do your own axle or send one and I send one back to you finished ready for you to install.
If anybody is interested in these give me a PM.
I will also do a lightweight rear brake, as I have made for my RC45. It's using an ISR caliper and disc and my own holder.I will try to get some pictures up today.
A few pictures are uploaded.
[image: IMG_1631.jpg]
[image: IMG_1634.jpg]
[image: IMG_1635.jpg]
[image: IMG_1632.jpg]
[image: IMG_1636.jpg]
Anybody know if this would fit the 4th gen?
I don't know if the NC30/35 axle fits the 4th gen hub. I think there was a thread on this question earlier...
I am interested. I do my own welding.
What else is needed for the conversion?
Hi Sebspeed
you will need to use the sprocket carrier from the nc30/35 reverse or do a cush drive like Mohawk and HighSideNZ have done. Using a sprocket carrier for the Ducati. HighSideNZ have som really nice drawings on his thread about the conversion.
thread are on this link:
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/81706-single-nut-rear-axle-conversion-6th-gen/
and no problem for me, if you do your own welding, it's a lot cheaper than sending an axle across the world:-)
Nice job... I may ante up myself... did you mod your RC45 axle too?
yes, I will do, but also have the original HRC axle for it:-)
Hi Rush
Can you PM me with your adress and I will get back to you with shipping cost.:-)
now the price for axle insert + nut including shipping for the US is worked out. it is 145,50 plus paypal fee of 4%.
There is 2 left..
And now for the brake system, I will have on my bike..
I mentioned in my first post in this thread, that I will have a very light weight rear brake on my bike. I have made the rear brake system for my RC45 years ago.
The brake system consist of a caliper from ISR, Sweden, which is very light, 240 gr. with pads, a disc also from ISR made to order and the brackets, which I made for it.
The total weight for it is 900 gr. and it is capable of stopping the RC45 as road bike, maybe with a weight loss of approx. 10-12 kg.
[image: caliper]
[image: caliperholder]
[image: disc]
[image: holder mounted]
I do not have the weight for the standard rear caliper, so I do not know how much weight it will save on my bike.
Other mods I am working on right now is a complete rebuild of the rear end, using my own subframe and a Honda RS125 race tail (pictures soon)
Edited March 5, 2016 by VFRRRWow, that rear brake system is beautiful.
Welcome to the Single Nut Club (and I do not mean Lance Armstrong)!
Can't wait to see the pics of your wheelset and the mounted rear brake. Very nice work!
Some pictures of my new subframe project. Two 10 mm side frame parts water cut in aluminium. Rear end from a Honda RS125...
I need to change the wiring loom and routing of it. The plan for are, that the battery will be moved up front or on side of the bike and front radiators mounted.
Is there anybody who has experience with the NC30/35 radiators and fitment - will they be sufficient for this bike?
[image: subframe rails]
I just need now to work out where to cut out some holes in the sides.... to lighting them more
[image: rear cowl]
[image: seat unit]
Edited March 19, 2016 by VFRRROoo, of course this come after.. Nice though,, if.....it'll be a next winter project....
Very clever solution, I like it!!!
thank you very much :biggrin: and yes it hat to come out now :rolleyes:
I still need to make up the compartment between the two sides, so the ECU and other electrical stuff can be inside there
Hi,
short update: it's been a while since my last post - we have moved houses, and it's first now that I am getting my workshop ready to work in.
For now the rear axle is getting welded at a workshop near me and I am looking at getting the rear subframe ready for welding.
I got a set of Honda VTR1000SP1 forks this week, know I need a set of triples for it. I will start on a new front fairing holder soon.
Anybody have som experince with moving the radiators up front, instead of the orignal place on the side of the bike? any advice is appreciated:-)
so the rear axle with the axle insert is ready and tried in the hub.
At the same time the light weight rear brake are tried. I am thinking of taking rear master from a Honda CRF250, because there is a integrated reservoir and they are cheap. anybody tried that?
[image: IMG_1781.JPG]
[image: IMG_1782.JPG]
[image: IMG_1783.JPG]
[image: IMG_1784.JPG]
I hope those 4 spot welds aren't going to be all that holds your axle together. I'm assuming it will get fully welded later, yes?
I am not sure, an engineer I know, who make steelconstruction will say it will hold the wheel and axle insert in place. It is also pressfitted into the axle. I have also torque the wheel at 280 Nm, as per the HRC manual for the RC45 rear wheel. So I will try and keep an eye on it and see.
Where did you get that torque figure for the RC45 ? Thats a pretty big number @ 206lb/ft !
The left side of the axle is only 120lb/ft (162nm) & the right side of the standard through bolt single nut is 84-90lb/ft (122nm)
PS re the CRF250 M/C they only have a 10mm piston, so will work with a single piston caliper, but probably NOT well with that opposed piston caliper.
By the way what caliper is that ? Looks sweet :)
last things first - I will try the master, because the caliper have small pistons, so I think the pressure it can deliver will be sufficient for that setup to work. the caliper is from ISR, Sweden, made for my setup.
The torque data comes from the HRC RC45 manual for the HRC axle. See the pictures of the manual. and the torque is 202 lb-ft.
[image: IMG_1792.JPG]
[image: IMG_1793.JPG]
I see you're using narrow-head M8 bolts for the brake disk. I found that titanium BMW S1000R disk bolts were almost perfect when I wanted to be able to use an RC46 rear wheel on my RC36 rear axle. However, I found that some aftermarket bolts had thicker heads than others! Maybe this is possible because this bolt is not in a DIN form?
Ciao,
HI JZH, it's a 6 mm bolt, because the disc is for the HRC RC45 axle, but eventually, when I receive the right disc, then it will be with 8 mm bolts, and with the same head.
I do not think the heads on bolt follow a specific norm, other vice than the socket size, or hex head size. If that's what you mean, when writing it is not in a DIN norm?
I used VFR400 Titanium sprocket carrier bolts for my disc bolts when I changed the axle. They are flat headed, so fit inside the recess on the wheel side of the axle plate.
There are international standards, such as DIN and JIS, for bolts, nuts, washers, etc., and most aftermarket fasteners are made to meet these standards so that an "M8 cap screw" is interchangeable with any other "M8 cap screw". But many motorcycle-specific fasteners are not manufactured to any particular standard. I was just suggesting one reason why the "titanium BMW S1000R rear brake disc bolts" I had purchased from different suppliers had 1mm different head heights. Only the ones sourced from BMW are guaranteed to be correct for a BMW; the ones supplied by the low-volume titanium fastener companies I was using are a bit hit-and-miss.
[image: 20160422_194120y.jpg]
This is an RC36 axle/disc set-up to run an un-modified RC46 rear wheel (using the BMW bolts mentioned above). Head height was critical because the wheel flange fit flush to the axle surface.
Ciao,
I was hoping VFRRR has at least one more of these sets as I could really do with one for my forthcoming V4 project. No response to PM though. :unsure:
If he could let me know (and hopefully sell me one) I'd be grateful.
Mohawk, 06/06/2016 at 12:51 PM
PS re the CRF250 M/C they only have a 10mm piston, so will work with a single piston caliper, but probably NOT well with that opposed piston caliper.
PPS, Chris I'm surprised at you. Single piston sliding caliper or twin opposing pistons, makes no difference. Only the piston diameter is relevant.
I have a small special caliper previously used on my RC45 which I hope to use on my 800 project. It's another small caliper with twin opposing pistons and I'm thinking of trying the CRF Master Cylinder also. I'm sure it would work well (enough).
Ken,
I'm using a ducati 1098S forged alloy rear wheel in a 5th gen arm - a spacer and a shim, fits right in.
Photos? or its not for real Keef :wink:
Maybe a silly question, but why did HRC use a LH thread for their large single wheel nut?
Also, do Ducati use LH or RH wheel nut thread and is it the same dia. and pitch as VFRRR and HRC?
Does a Ducati nut fit the M38 x 1.5 thread on the driven side of the axle?
Does the NC30/35 wheel nut fit the RC45. So is the thread on the end of the internal axle bolt the same for both bikes?
I can answer at least two of those questions, as I've been searching for titanium or stainless steel nuts for my RC30 axle recently. The NC30/35 RHS nut fits my RC30 axle. This is available in titanium from Titan Classics. I actually bought it secondhand from someone on 400GreyBike, who had bought it for his NC35. I'd guess the RC45 is the same as the RC30, but I'm not sure.
The M38 x 1.5 LHS nut is shared only with the Triumph Speed Triple and the like; Ducatis use a different thread pitch--1.25, I think. This is actually my current headache, because I cannot find anything remotely affordable to replace this nut and retain the lock-wire or locking features of my corroded OEM nut.
Ciao,
49 minutes ago, JZH
I can answer at least two of those questions, as I've been searching for titanium or stainless steel nuts for my RC30 axle recently. The NC30/35 RHS nut fits my RC30 axle. This is available in titanium from Titan Classics. I actually bought it secondhand from someone on 400GreyBike, who had bought it for his NC35. I'd guess the RC45 is the same as the RC30, but I'm not sure.
The M38 x 1.5 LHS nut is shared only with the Triumph Speed Triple and the like; Ducatis use a different thread pitch--1.25, I think. This is actually my current headache, because I cannot find anything remotely affordable to replace this nut and retain the lock-wire or locking features of my corroded OEM nut.
Ciao,
I also think the RC45 uses the same thread on its axle bolt as the NC30 and 35. But I've not confirmed that 100% and I don't want to waste the money on a nice Ti nut if it's wrong.
Are you looking for the LH/driven side axle nut? That's the M38 x 1.5. Titan Classic have those that can be staked like the original, but buy from their website as it seems a bit cheaper than their eBay store.
If you don't want to stake the nut into the slot in the axle (like I don't) do what Mohawk did and drill the lip of the nut and the axle so the Ducati (or some other) clip can be used.
18 hours ago, RVFR
Photos? or its not for real Keef :wink:
its real, and a lurid colour.
[image: IMG_8537.JPG]
[image: IMG_8538.JPG]
Hey keef, I see you're using Ducati (style) nuts on both ends of the axle. Is that because the nuts fit the Honda axle (in which case, which axle) or are you using a Ducati axle?
Looking further at axle nuts, it appears Ducati use M33, M38 or M48. So no matches there :sad:
15 hours ago, BiKenG
I also think the RC45 uses the same thread on its axle bolt as the NC30 and 35. But I've not confirmed that 100% and I don't want to waste the money on a nice Ti nut if it's wrong.
Are you looking for the LH/driven side axle nut? That's the M38 x 1.5. Titan Classic have those that can be staked like the original, but buy from their website as it seems a bit cheaper than their eBay store.
If you don't want to stake the nut into the slot in the axle (like I don't) do what Mohawk did and drill the lip of the nut and the axle so the Ducati (or some other) clip can be used.
The wheel-side thread appears to be M18 x 1.5 (just measured it). Titan Classics' website is always frustrating because, whilst they do try to show all compatibles, they often fail to simply show the dimensions of their parts! (That said, I did recently find a trove of dimensional drawings for their fairing fasteners...but where did I find it? I can't find it on their site now!)
Yes, I'm trying to avoid staking the titanium (I didn't even know what was possible!), and ideally I'd like a flanged nut so I can ditch the conical washer. There is one available in Japan for silly money (of course), but no thanks. I'd consider modifying the eBay one, but it's not flanged.
Apart from the Triumph, I don't think there is anything else using the Honda-spec threads, unfortunately.
Ciao,
Edited November 15, 2017 by JZH
Corrected thread diameter...
I've just ordered the Triumph wheel nut which at M38 x 1.5 is the correct size for the Honda's driven side axle nut. Although the Honda style nut is available from Titan Classics, I just hate the idea of having to bend a part just to make it do its job, especially if you want to be able to re-use it multiple times. Shame on Honda for employing such a crummy idea. The Triumph one however is castellated and with some drilling of the axle I'll be able to use the Triumph clip on it too.
Neither are flanged, but I don't see that as being a problem. There is supposed to be a spring/conical washer underneath that nut and using a flange type nut wouldn't obviate the need for that spring loading. But Titan Classics have those conical washers in Ti, so all's good. :wink:
In fact TC also have the wheel nut R clip in Ti.
So the RC45 wheel nut is M18 x 1.5, but what about the NC30 and 35? I suspect they are the same, but I cannot seem to get any confirmation of that.
11 hours ago, BiKenG
Hey keef, I see you're using Ducati (style) nuts on both ends of the axle. Is that because the nuts fit the Honda axle (in which case, which axle) or are you using a Ducati axle?
Ducati axle.
It is a...
vfr arm, axle/hub/eccentric removed
duke 1098 axle, etc
1.5mm shim as the duke stuff s 3mm smaller
5mm spacer to centre it
in she goes. Although it might be a 2.5mm shim and a 3mm spacer, it was 5 years ago, now.
Custom extreme creations sprocket on a Ducati driven quick change hub, duke rear rotor, duke rear caliper, ex creations caliper bracket.
848 stuff won’t work, only 1098.
I over complicated the second version of my front mount rad, but the rear wheel conversion was kept simple.
I googled my bike to find the pic
1.5mm and 3mm
[image: 64C61979-C3AA-489D-BD9D-8ACA4807B8D6.jpeg]
Curious here in the rear wheel offset, I had a 1098 rear wheel where I was going to use, then found that the offset is different, maybe you fixed this with the Ducati eccentric ? This is still on my bucket list to do if and when. Thanks for the photos ;) Oh, btw the color is spot on.
BiKenG, 13/11/2017 at 7:01 PM
PPS, Chris I'm surprised at you. Single piston sliding caliper or twin opposing pistons, makes no difference. Only the piston diameter is relevant.
I have a small special caliper previously used on my RC45 which I hope to use on my 800 project. It's another small caliper with twin opposing pistons and I'm thinking of trying the CRF Master Cylinder also. I'm sure it would work well (enough).
It's the piston area, so the number of makes a difference or the area to be exact. The crf rear caliper piston is 22mm driven by a 10mm M/C for a 4.84/1 ratio.
The RVF rear is 1x25mm & 1x27mm giving a ratio of 13.5/1 ratio, so will need a lot more throw to develop any pressure.
3 hours ago, RVFR
Curious here in the rear wheel offset, I had a 1098 rear wheel where I was going to use, then found that the offset is different, maybe you fixed this with the Ducati eccentric ? This is still on my bucket list to do if and when. Thanks for the photos ;) Oh, btw the color is spot on.
I gave a 1098 wheel to extreme creations to figure out. Ben ha a spare 5th gen arm to test on. I thought he would need to make an adapter plate like carrozzeria used to.
He noticed that the Duke eccentric would fit, so we went that route. I've seen complete 1098 arms for $300 aus. You could take the eccentric and sell the arm on.
Same sort of thing guys who raced vfr400's out here used to do to change to a 17 inch rear wheel.
colour is ford citric acid from the xr6's. Kinda fluoro yellow, kinda snot green.
Oh, and slightly related to what Mohawk is saying - I know a guy (and internet streetfighter building friend) whoi used a crf MC for his rear because the integrated res looks cool. Doesn't really work on an OEM vfr rear caliper.
JZH, 11/15/2017 at 5:50 AM
The M38 x 1.5 LHS nut is shared only with the Triumph Speed Triple and the like; Ducatis use a different thread pitch--1.25, I think. This is actually my current headache, because I cannot find anything remotely affordable to replace this nut and retain the lock-wire or locking features of my corroded OEM nut.
Hi John
I have a Triumph eccentric in my 4th Gen swingarm, with an 848 Marchesini. I had the axle shortened and re-threaded as it was around 30mm too long for the Duc wheel.
The original Triumph two-piece nut/collar fits, and so does the aftermarket alloy Ducati one-piece nut/collar I bought for about $50 off ebay. They are the same thread.
an 848 only gives you a girly 5.5 inches.
a 1098 gives you a manly 6 inches.
6 inches is manly, right?
11 hours ago, Mohawk
It's the piston area, so the number of makes a difference or the area to be exact. The crf rear caliper piston is 22mm driven by a 10mm M/C for a 4.84/1 ratio.
The RVF rear is 1x25mm & 1x27mm giving a ratio of 13.5/1 ratio, so will need a lot more throw to develop any pressure.
Yes of course it's the total area of pistons MOVING IN THE SAME DIRECTION. But assuming the same piston size, a single piston in a sliding caliper is EXACTLY the same as 2 pistons moving in opposition (i.e. fixed caliper). For the latter, the area you'd use for any calculation would only be for ONE piston. The sliding effect of the caliper means essentially the same amount of fluid has to be moved in each of these different designs. There are of course other considerations that make the sliding caliper less than optimal, but they're cheaper to make hence why we still see them being used.
I just bought a couple of CRF style master cylinders to try out. Only £6 each on eBay - new. I know, Chinese manufactured (and supplied), but you can't knock the price and I'm sure they will actually work as well as I need - as long as the size is suitable.
I love Titanium. Here's the Triumph nut I just bought from compeng24. He is intending to produce Ti clips to go with them, but might be a month or 2.
In conjunction with Titan Classics conical spring washer this seems like a perfect solution for the driven side of the axle.
TC also offer a lot of other useful Ti stuff like h/bar lever pivots, rear wheel drive pins and steering stem nuts. Just have to wait a while till I can afford those.
Did I mention, I love Ti. :biggrin:
[image: s-l400.jpg]
17 hours ago, keef
vfr arm, axle/hub/eccentric removed
duke 1098 axle, etc
1.5mm shim as the duke stuff s 3mm smaller
5mm spacer to centre it
in she goes. Although it might be a 2.5mm shim and a 3mm spacer, it was 5 years ago, now.
Custom extreme creations sprocket on a Ducati driven quick change hub, duke rear rotor, duke rear caliper, ex creations caliper bracket.
848 stuff won’t work, only 1098.
That doesn't sound overly complicated, but the devil is in the details -
-what materials did you use for the shim and spacer - aluminum?
-the caliper bracket - also aluminum? does a drawing exist?
-Why won't they 848 stuff work? Lots of 848 parts available nearby, the 1098 pieces are a bit rarer
BiKenG, 11/15/2017 at 12:08 PM
So the RC45 wheel nut is M18 x 1.5, but what about the NC30 and 35? I suspect they are the same, but I cannot seem to get any confirmation of that.
I just fit my Ti sprocket-side M18 x 1.5 nut (used on my RC30 axle) onto my NC35. Confirmed!
Ciao,
BiKenG, 11/15/2017 at 12:08 PM
So the RC45 wheel nut is M18 x 1.5, but what about the NC30 and 35? I suspect they are the same, but I cannot seem to get any confirmation of that.
I just fit my Ti sprocket-side M18 x 1.5 nut (used on my RC30 axle) onto my NC35. Confirmed!
Ciao,
BiKenG, 11/15/2017 at 12:08 PM
So the RC45 wheel nut is M18 x 1.5, but what about the NC30 and 35? I suspect they are the same, but I cannot seem to get any confirmation of that.
I just fit my Ti sprocket-side M18 x 1.5 nut (used on my RC30 axle) onto my NC35. Confirmed!
Ciao,
...and now you know I'm SERIOUS...
Ciao,
yeah, ally for the shim and spacer.
Ally for the caliper bracket. It's cnc (extreme creations has a cnc) so he has a drawing for it, but can also reproduce the bracket fairly quickly. I cant give away a design that a mate worked hard to create.
the 848 has a smaller axle (like the 916/748 series of bikes) so doesn't quite work out. otherwise Phantom's result wouldn't be quite so mix and match.
I didn't choose the 1098 through diligent research, I just wanted a 6inch rear wheel. I managed to find a forged 1098S rear wheel, and because mismatched wheels are the devil, a cast 848 front. It was impossible to find a reasonably priced forged front - they tend to take the impact in crashes.
I was wondering why there were 3 responses why I was typing a fairly short response.
Serious? or very effing excited?
For 5th gen (and probably 6th gen), 1098 works better. For 4th gen, 848 fits with mismatched parts. Have to consider wheel/tire clearance on the 4th gen, which was meant for a smaller wheel than the 5th gen.
15 hours ago, JZH
I just fit my Ti sprocket-side M18 x 1.5 nut (used on my RC30 axle) onto my NC35. Confirmed!
Surely you mean wheel side? The sprocket side uses M38 x 1.5 (or M35 if not single nut wheel fixing).
I took a chance and ordered the Ti wheel nut that was specified for the 400s but not the RC45. Should be here today, but good to know I made the right choice.
Veefer800Canuck, 03/06/2016 at 8:54 AM
I hope those 4 spot welds aren't going to be all that holds your axle together. I'm assuming it will get fully welded later, yes?
I had thought it could be welded all the way around the axle, but I now realise that's not really possible as the 'adapter' is pushed into the axle right up to the thread. So as far as I can see from the photos, holes must be drilled in the axle and the adapter welded to the axle just around each hole. Can't have too many holes, obviously. :wink:
The only other way would be to cut the axle shorter and weld that shortened end to the adapter around the full circumference. The axle would just need shortening sufficiently to provide enough space for the weld. But making sure the adapter is pushed in to the correct depth would be trickier.
Anyone actually installed this adapter and could comment?
19 hours ago, keef
yeah, ally for the shim and spacer.
Ally for the caliper bracket. It's cnc (extreme creations has a cnc) so he has a drawing for it, but can also reproduce the bracket fairly quickly. I cant give away a design that a mate worked hard to create.
the 848 has a smaller axle (like the 916/748 series of bikes) so doesn't quite work out. otherwise Phantom's result wouldn't be quite so mix and match.
I didn't choose the 1098 through diligent research, I just wanted a 6inch rear wheel. I managed to find a forged 1098S rear wheel, and because mismatched wheels are the devil, a cast 848 front. It was impossible to find a reasonably priced forged front - they tend to take the impact in crashes.
I was wondering why there were 3 responses why I was typing a fairly short response.
Serious? or very effing excited?
Thanks, info very much appreciated. Looks like I have my winter project now. Off to look up the Extreme Creations website and see if they'll machine another bracket and ship it stateside......
3 hours ago, BiKenG
Surely you mean wheel side? The sprocket side uses M38 x 1.5 (or M35 if not single nut wheel fixing).
I took a chance and ordered the Ti wheel nut that was specified for the 400s but not the RC45. Should be here today, but good to know I made the right choice.
I knew this was going to happen! Yes, I meant wheel side. And then I hit the "Submit Reply" button three times because the page didn't update. So, now I've memorialised my uck-fup three times for posterity. It's been one of those weeks... :unsure:
But I don't care because I also got a pristine Startrite 14-T-10 bandsaw for £350, delivered! :goofy:
Ciao,
ok woot woot, now where'd that 1098 rim go..........
5 hours ago, JZH
I knew this was going to happen! Yes, I meant wheel side.
So now you need to find a 35mm Ti axle nut or your VFR will be unbalanced :wink:
I'm trying to put together a single nut fixing using Honda's central axle bolt.
I have an RC45 axle bolt and it appears to fit into the NC30 axle although the splines don't exactly slide in easily and will need some tapping to go fully home (they're totally dry having only just been de-greased). I'm guessing that's normal.
However, the bolt then protrudes about 2" from the end of the axle. Should it be this long? Means the wheel and washers have to be much thicker than I would have expected. I've got nothing to which I can compare it. Can anyone recall how much the bolt sticks out of the axle or has a 400 axle they can measure for length?
How is a 400 wheel centred? There's no RC45 style cone spacer to centralise it on the axle, so what does? Is the idea that it is a snug fit over the axle and that's sufficient. The fancy spacer under the nut then would be just a big washer. Or does that spacer somehow help even though it's not going to be as good as the RC45's cone spacer. Or does the wheel sit snug on the boss at the centre of the flange, with the drive pins just there to stop it rotating? The RC45 uses its cone spacer for this, but I just cannot see quite how the 400 achieves the same centralisation and I don't have all the 400 parts to be able to work it out. Anyone familiar with the 400s?
16 hours ago, jim v
Thanks, info very much appreciated. Looks like I have my winter project now. Off to look up the Extreme Creations website and see if they'll machine another bracket and ship it stateside......
he will - I asked him before for another member.
Tell Ben that hooligan from ASF says hi.
I think this is a picture of my RC30 axle before it was modified to take the NR wheel. The drive pins have been removed (the NR uses larger diameter pins, which had to be fabricated):
[image: P1000538x.jpg.662fe3d9538d2f2e3b9c52ff16e76032.jpg]
In contrast, this is an RC36 axle; it has no central locating flange--the wheel is centred and retained by the studs and nuts, only:
[image: 20160422_195628x.thumb.jpg.6b0cbf3658b4a95836ff21d3a902f610.jpg]
The NC30 wheel is centred by the protruding flange on the axle, the axle bolt (and the cone spacer, which isn't actually conical) just keeps the wheel from falling off. This is actually an NC30 axle that has been modified by Rick Oliver to accept a VFR750 wheel. The central flange has actually been cut down from its original length because it would have interfered with the VFR750 wheel:
[image: 0042.JPG.2d943910a419613137dae9fc51647b83.JPG]
In this photo you can see where the OEM drive pins were before they were plugged:
[image: 0006.jpg.5bda68d7489c0e88ff305007fe744ed0.jpg]
The NC30/35 and RC40 all use a flat "cone spacer", so its function must be slightly different than on the RC30/45. It may be that the conical part of it isn't actually necessary when the wheel is being retained by an axle bolt and nut, and centred by the central flange? When the conical spacer is actually the nut that retains the wheel onto the axle (as it is on HRC bikes), I can see it being fully functional, but the conical bit doesn't seem necessary on a production bike. :unsure:
(I do recall the inner axle being a tight fit on my NC30/35s, so that doesn't seen out of line to me.)
Ciao,
BiKenG, 11/17/2017 at 1:16 PM
How is a 400 wheel centred? There's no RC45 style cone spacer to centralise it on the axle, so what does? Is the idea that it is a snug fit over the axle and that's sufficient. The fancy spacer under the nut then would be just a big washer.
Yes, the 400's are snug fit on the axle and the washer is just a spacer, or versa vica.....
Excellent info John (JZH) thanks. My concern at the moment is fitting an RC36.2 wheel to the NC30 axle. As you mentioned above, the axle is too large to fit through the wheel. So it's modify the wheel or shorten the axle. Since I'll need to modify the wheel anyway, I'll probably do both.
I will need to turn out the wheel's centre bore on the mount side to be a snug fit over that boss and also turn the outer edge of the bore so that the 400 'not cone' spacer fits nicely or I could use an RC45 cone spacer, if I had one. But I don't. I have a couple of 400 type spacers though so that's probably the way to go. Unless anyone has an RC45 cone spacer going spare? Ideally wanting to swap for a 400 one. :wink:
As has been mentioned before, I will need to plug the original bolt holes in the outer surface of the wheel, but I could then make some large drive pins that would locate into the wheel's bolt holes in the inner mount surface and modify the axle flange to fit these pins at the 100mm PCD, as John has done above with actual wheel studs, although I'll mount my special drive pins instead. It's a pity Honda didn't use 100mm PCD for the drive pins. That would have been just soooo convenient.
Hmm, what's the disc mount hole PCD? If that was 100mm...
Looking at the pictures it looks slightly larger (damn), but I need to measure it to be sure. That would also be extremely convenient.
Next problem is how to mount the wheel in my lathe and that's assuming it's even big enough. Time to find out. :unsure:
I think I've heard of someone welding up the lug holes in a 750 wheel, which shouldn't really be a big problem for a competent welder. Possibly a Hawk GT guy--they're nuts, those boys.
Don't/didn't you have an RC45? It sounds like it would be very useful to compare a Honda single-nut wheel with the RC36-II wheel you have. Now that you mention it, I might have acquired a conical wheel spacer with my RC30 swing arm. I'll have to check in the shed-o-wonder.
I can get you whatever measurements you need. Which, exactly?
Ciao,
11 hours ago, JZH
I think I've heard of someone welding up the lug holes in a 750 wheel, which shouldn't really be a big problem for a competent welder. Possibly a Hawk GT guy--they're nuts, those boys.
Don't/didn't you have an RC45? It sounds like it would be very useful to compare a Honda single-nut wheel with the RC36-II wheel you have. Now that you mention it, I might have acquired a conical wheel spacer with my RC30 swing arm. I'll have to check in the shed-o-wonder.
I can get you whatever measurements you need. Which, exactly?
Ciao,
Yes I have an RC45, but apart from it being tucked away at the moment and hard to get to, I'm not sure I want go that route. Specifically I think it's because I have a couple of 400 spacers and hate the thought of not using one of those and buying something else instead. Unless someone else found they had an RC45 one available...
In fact, the raised ridge on the inside of the 400 spacer is an almost perfect fit into the outside of the RC36.2 wheel. Although the wheel has a tapered centre hole like the RC45. the 400 spacer is a snug fit. I reckon with the paint removed it wouldn't even need any machining for the 400 spacer that would grab the wheel nicely when the nut was tightened. So that's probably the route I'll take. I do need to machine out the inside end of the wheel centre bore (currently 50mm) to fit over the axle boss (needs 51mm) however and getting the wheel mounted that way around in the lathe will be interesting.
I did measure the axle and the PCDs are as follows:-
Drive pins = 85mm
Wheel studs = 100mm
Disc mount bolts = 110mm
I guess using the different PCDs makes sense for OEM, but if they were the same it would make this job a lot simpler.
keef, 11/16/2017 at 4:46 PM
an 848 only gives you a girly 5.5 inches.
a 1098 gives you a manly 6 inches.
6 inches is manly, right?
It's not what you've got, it's what you do with it, Chris...
My trick is to fit smaller bodywork, which makes it look bigger :wink:
Ha! That's what people with small tyres say.
Because I have a ninja 250 seat and subframe, the 6 inch with 190/55 looks like a 240 section tyre.
I am not sure if this has already been mentioned, but...Question: the NC30 axle is shorter than the RC36 axle, so will it work with the RC36 bearing carrier? but is that because of the lack of cush drive, or because of the narrower bearing carrier on the NC30?
I've got the triangular piece we spoke about in front of me now, but I still cannot find the conical spacer (assuming I have one). You could probably turn a conical spacer on your lathe to help centre the axle and nut, which would sit inboard of the raised lip on the flat NC30 spacer--same effect.
Ciao,
1 hour ago, JZH
I am not sure if this has already been mentioned, but...Question: the NC30 axle is shorter than the RC36 axle, so will it work with the RC36 bearing carrier? but is that because of the lack of cush drive, or because of the narrower bearing carrier on the NC30?
I've got the triangular piece we spoke about in front of me now, but I still cannot find the conical spacer (assuming I have one). You could probably turn a conical spacer on your lathe to help centre the axle and nut, which would sit inboard of the raised lip on the flat NC30 spacer--same effect.
Ciao,
I believe the NC axle will work in the RC36 S/A and I suspect the lack of cush drive is the reason for it being shorter. But you apparently do need to machine the axle slightly to shift it slightly left in order to align the wheel correctly. Mohawk is the expert on this and has it all figured out for when he did it on his bike.
In order to use the RC45 conical spacer, the axle needs to extend through the wheel as the spacer centres the wheel to that end of the axle. If I cut the axle shorter to allow the wheel to fit, the conical spacer won't be able to engage on it. The alternative is to enlarge the bore through the wheel so the axle fits through. But my current feeling is to cut down the axle and just use the 400 flat spacer.
Of course ti could all change tomorrow. :biggrin:
I have determined that opening up the centre bore of the wheel to fit over the full length of axle is the way to go and I'm just working on a way to mount the wheel in the lathe in order to accomplish this. However, the relative lengths of axle have thrown up a problem.
If I insert an RC bolt into the NC axle, mount an RC wheel and a spacer, it is clear that the axle is nearly an inch too long. So either the RCs' wheel is much thinner, or their bolt is quite a bit longer and I suspect the latter. Anyone got an NC axle bolt they could measure?
I measured my NC30 axle bolt at 186.71mm, measured from the top of the head.
FWIW, an RC30 axle bolt protrudes from an RC30 axle approximately 34.6mm.
Ciao,
9 hours ago, JZH
I measured my NC30 axle bolt at 186.71mm, measured from the top of the head.
Thanks for that. The RC axle bolt is about 206 long which explains why it looks too long in the NC axle. So in fact it IS too long. Rats :-(
I've acquired a couple of spares over the years. Shall I put one in the box with the shock link piece?
Ciao,
JZH, 25/11/2017 at 10:34 AM
I've acquired a couple of spares over the years. Shall I put one in the box with the shock link piece?
Ciao,
Very kind of you John, but I've found a new axle at decent price, so I'll not have to trouble you for one of yours, thanks anyway. Still need the suspension link though. :biggrin:
Meanwhile, arranging to mount the wheel in the lathe and then also on the mill is making my head hurt.
Letting everyone know, Extreme Creations in Aus is selling a single nut conversion kit to work with 1098 components - spacer, shim and caliper bracket.
I just ordered one so 7 kits remaining
Nice. Mine has been working for the last 5years or so.
jim v, 2/3/2018 at 9:54 PM
Letting everyone know, Extreme Creations in Aus is selling a single nut conversion kit to work with 1098 components - spacer, shim and caliper bracket.
I just ordered one so 7 kits remaining
Great, I am just now finishing rebuilding the VFR hub....
Question for keef and others who have made the modification - what chain/sprockets are you using?
iirc, Ducati stock is a 525 chain, Honda stock is 530. Does a 525 (or 520) front sprocket for a VFR exist?
2 hours ago, jim v
Question for keef and others who have made the modification - what chain/sprockets are you using?
iirc, Ducati stock is a 525 chain, Honda stock is 530. Does a 525 (or 520) front sprocket for a VFR exist?
Of course:
http://sprocketcenter.com/street-sprocket-applications/honda/vfr-800-2002-2014.html
Thanks for that - looks like a 520 sprocket is available
I’m using a driven quick change sprocket carrier for a 1098 with a custom made 530 rear sprocket from extreme since chain and sprockets were new when I did the wheel.
When the chain dies (only 15000Ks on the vfr in 5 years) I’ll go to a 520.
530 is overkill for a bike that only makes 110or so hp.
-_- man I am pissed that I invested so much time and money in the vfr stuff, thinking that this kit wasn't going to come together and sure enough, right as I am getting reading to put it back together, the kit is for sale.
That's a good chunk of money for some shim stock and a small waterjet/milled part.
1 hour ago, CandyRedRC46
-_- man I am pissed that I invested so much time and money in the vfr stuff, thinking that this kit wasn't going to come together and sure enough, right as I am getting reading to put it back together, the kit is for sale.
I think Keef mentioned his wife refers to the VFR as the vortex, my wife calls mine the money vacuum.
A friend of mine asked me why I got the rear sets and 8 spoke rear wheel, I told him I didn't understand the question.
3 hours ago, YoshiHNS
That's a good chunk of money for some shim stock and a small waterjet/milled part.
He makes them in a CNC, actually. I dropped off my 1098 wheel years ago because he had a spare 5th gen arm to see how to make it work. This was much cleaner than the carozzeria style adapter I thought he'd have to make.
I reckon $235 is pretty cheap since he'd done all the measuring for you.
all prices in AUS$.
In my mind its not a lot of money - someone else did the measuring, thinking and cutting. keef has been doing a long term test.
There's no way I could replicate it for $235AU, not even close
jim v, 2/3/2018 at 6:54 PM
Letting everyone know, Extreme Creations in Aus is selling a single nut conversion kit to work with 1098 components - spacer, shim and caliper bracket.
I just ordered one so 7 kits remaining
Okay, Cool beans. other than a wheel, Doh, what else is needed? seems to simple. But like where this is going. I just happen to know where there's a wheel ;)
Just looking at their site myself..
Other required parts are the complete Ducati rear hub assembly including cush drive, brake disc, caliper & caliper bracket. As well as a Ducati 1098 rear wheel or aftermarket wheel to suit a Ducati 1098. A suitable brakeline will also be required.
Doesn't the 1098 and Multi have the same swingarm and same sized wheel?
All I know is the 848 has the smaller axle, the 1098 has the larger one, 1098 works, 848 is much harder. The 848 (I think) is the smaller axle from the older 916/996 series, so may work with a triumph hub. I didn't choose 1098 from research, I just wanted 6 inches of forged alloy goodness and got lucky.
And I have seen complete 1098 swingarm/hub/caliper/sprocket, for $300 aus. As in, everything except the wheel.
Don't forget, the 1098S is forged, so even lighter :491:
what are the differences in the 5th/6th/8th gen swingarms? I've notice a few lightweight wheel discussions going on..
Keef is right. 848 and 1098 dont swap. Linky to site, but follows what I remember finding out when I did my search. I have a S4RS.
1098/1198 (maybe 1199) are their own thing. I think you can check by the axle part number to be sure.
Quote
748/916/996/998, 848 Ms24/s4r, m796, m1100, & old shape multi & hyper
https://www.ducatiforum.co.uk/threads/compatible-wheels.19065/
1098 conversion is trick... what is the weight difference???
the internet says...
a stock 1098S rear wheel like mine (forged alloy) is 7.85lbs.
I think the 5th gen rear wheel is about 13lbs?
Stock 848 (cast) front wheel is 9.15lbs
no idea what a front vfr wheel weighs.
my rear 848 cast is 9.8 lbs IIRC
Exchange rate to US put the whole kit at $205 shipped.
keef, 09/02/2018 at 8:48 PM
the internet says...
a stock 1098S rear wheel like mine (forged alloy) is 7.85lbs.
I think the 5th gen rear wheel is about 13lbs?
Stock 848 (cast) front wheel is 9.15lbs
no idea what a front vfr wheel weighs.
keef, what's the conversion like at speed, any vibrations or imbalance probs? Done any vmax tests with it?
I’ve done a few track days on it and some high speed touring (not racing) through the mountains, etc.
All good at WOT in 6th.
Or doing crap wheelies.
Or spinning the back wheel through turn 6.
Just do it.
Stock 5th gen rear wheel is 6Kg or 13.2lb, the front with bearings/spacer/disc bolts (no discs) is 5Kg or 11lb.
BST RC45 5.75" width rear is 3Kg & front is 2.5Kg as per above with bearings/spacers/ti disc bolts.
My front conversion is minus 4.5Kg (9.9lb) & the rear with quick sprocket change carrier & my own design cush drive is minus 6.5Kg (14.3lb) most of that is off the rotating mass & with carbon wheels its off the rim area, alloy & carbon wheel weights do NOT mean the same thing, as most of the alloy wheels weight is in the rim, so two wheels of the same weight will feel different due to where the weight is.
Have fun :)
keef, 2/8/2018 at 1:58 AM
what are the differences in the 5th/6th/8th gen swingarms? I've notice a few lightweight wheel discussions going on..
Not a lot, they all mount up with the right parts. I mocked up a '14 swing arm with a 6th Gen hub on my '99 engine using the rear cushion from a 6th Gen. 6th and 8th swingarms use the same mounting hardware. The "rear cushion" can be changed out to mount 6/8 Gen onto a 5th, 6th and 8th should be able to swap out easily.
Of course the 6th and 8th are longer than 5th Gen. They use a 2 link longer chain.
YoshiHNS, 09/02/2018 at 10:08 PM
my rear 848 cast is 9.8 lbs IIRC
[image: 322C82F7-F816-437F-AD3A-58FB26451A01.jpeg]
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.CENTRE NUT REAR WHEEL CONVERSATION
I have just finished manufacturing a rear wheel conversion that takes the Ducati 1198 wheel (17x6).
The nice part about this conversation is that the only item changed is the rear axle everything else is standard OEM.
If anyone is interested in this conversion I can supply this and all you need to do is purchase your own wheel.
Pm me for details
I was going to do the axel only conversion, and have one with the kit from VFRR welded if anyone is interested PM me.
I ended up going with Keef's conversion wanting to use a 5.5 848 wheel and two pot caliper. Waiting on a 520 sprocket and ill post a completed thread.
[image: IMG_4896.thumb.jpg.ac663d37761a9ed5c7b774a32c8954f5.jpg][image: IMG_4895.thumb.jpg.0e1571c4729b95b21ab65e035a0a5a2a.jpg][image: IMG_4789.thumb.jpg.0971dae953e1e39b30325ac46e508f47.jpg][image: IMG_3843.thumb.jpg.cb7c145e4e8b9f83aed3ad8a68a89931.jpg][image: IMG_3844.thumb.jpg.1d600b5dcfc888baaeb286c0beb4999b.jpg]
Regarding Steen's (VFRRR) conversion pieces, anyone know for sure the materials they're made from. Steel and Al alloy I know, but exactly what alloys?
The axle extension is very magnetic which suggests it's not stainless and Steen made no mention of this so it's likely to be mild steel. In which case, how is everyone who uses one actually protecting the metal? If left bare it will surely rust badly. Paint it?
And what about the alloy nut. 7075 perhaps? Or what? Anyone know?
Of course Steen knows, but he's kinda busy and I hoped someone else would know for sure.
Another question about Steen's (VFRRR) conversion kit. I have one here and loosely inserted it into an NC35 axle. Strangely, it is quite loose. Doesn't rattle, but slides in and out. I thought they had to be push fit into the axle. Anyway...
I then inserted it into an RC45 wheel and I cannot help but think it's nearly 8mm too long. If I hold the insert into the axle and spin the nut down until it starts to bind on the wheel, there's almost 8mm of thread protruding beyond the nut, before the outer lip with holes to take the pin. The whole threaded portion looks like it should be about 8mm shorter, otherwise it sticks out way too far.
Anyone else found this? I cannot see why this is. The RC45 wheel is new and certainly not 'thinned' in any way. The axle is certainly not modified and the extension piece is how it was supplied. How can it end up being 8mm too long?
Any ideas?
2 hours ago, BiKenG
Another question about Steen's (VFRRR) conversion kit. I have one here and loosely inserted it into an NC35 axle. Strangely, it is quite loose. Doesn't rattle, but slides in and out. I thought they had to be push fit into the axle. Anyway...
I then inserted it into an RC45 wheel and I cannot help but think it's nearly 8mm too long. If I hold the insert into the axle and spin the nut down until it starts to bind on the wheel, there's almost 8mm of thread protruding beyond the nut, before the outer lip with holes to take the pin. The whole threaded portion looks like it should be about 8mm shorter, otherwise it sticks out way too far.
Anyone else found this? I cannot see why this is. The RC45 wheel is new and certainly not 'thinned' in any way. The axle is certainly not modified and the extension piece is how it was supplied. How can it end up being 8mm too long?
Any ideas?
I have a complete axle " pic above" that Steen yes said was press fit and welded, and is 80mm for base of the rotor mounting plate, "threaded side" to the very end of the attached axle. I never tried to fit a 1098 wheel to it. Is Steen not responding to you?
I think Steen is very busy.
The assembly I have here is also 80mm when pushed together. But the RC45 wheel and nut is about 67 mm thick which leaves about 13mm protruding beyond the wheel. The groove and lip at the end are about 7mm, so that means 5mm of spare thread. Seems to me that with the nut on and tight, only the groove and lip should be visible so the clip can be fitted. There should be no exposed thread. If nothing else, that would mean the nut can come loose out to the retaining clip and allow the wheel to slide 5mm side to side. This cannot be a good thing as it'll just be flopping around.
I originally thought it was 7mm too long, but the measurements above indicate 5mm. So let's take the middle ground and I can't help but think the extension piece is about 6mm too long.
I'm not knocking Steen here, the pieces are beautifully made. It just seems I must be missing something here.
I don't know if you saying he is "very busy" is code for something like he is "in prison"; because no matter how busy, he should be able to respond to a question. I don't see a pic of a completed project or even a wheel on the bike, and his last post on this thread was 2016, unless I'm missing something. So I'm guessing we have expensive paperweights in our possession...
Regarding Ducati axle and wheel, how is the wheel located on the axle?
On an NC30 the wheel is a snug fit over the enlarged boss next to the disc/drive pin flange, so the spacer and nut just hold it in place.
The RC45 wheel is not so snug on the inner side, but the conical spacer is snug over the outer end of the axle and so locates the wheel.
How do Ducati do it?
From looking at measurements, it would appear that the wheel is actually quite loose on the axle and it is only the conical spacer that locates the wheel, centralising it and pushing it up against the flange, holding it in that central position by the clamping force of the nut. Not that different from the RC45 in fact, although the Ducati wheel is even looser on the axle as far as I can see.
Is this how others see it? The only location of the Ducati's wheel is done by the conical spacer?
BTW, what is the offset of the 1098 (6") wheel? Honda use a 19mm offset and the 916 (smaller axle) is 23mm, but what about those Ducs with the larger axle? What offset do they use? Same as for the smaller axle?
14 minutes ago, gig
I don't know if you saying he is "very busy" is code for something like he is "in prison"; because no matter how busy, he should be able to respond to a question.
Ha, no, not code. I have been in touch with Steen, but he was heavily involved in something (business, or moving house, I now forget which) and is apt to take a very long time to reply. In any case, I'm sure he gets posts to this thread, so I figured asking here provided the best 'audience'. 😀
Did you ever mount an RC45 wheel to your modified axle? Surely someone has and can comment on its fitment and the length of the modified axle?
All things considered, and i know you were unsure of the material used on the axle, no way would not mount a wheel to that axle.
I would suggest doing the conversion that Keef had done. Im guessing the small and large axle Duc wheels have the same offset, as the 3mm spacer used by Extremecreations was to square the wheel, and my measurements on the small axel wheel with the spacer were good.
I am working through 2 conversions. One is to accept an RC45 wheel and the other a 916 wheel. Those are now set. I just need to figure out the best way to modify the NC[30|35] axles.
Since both wheels rely on the conical spacer to centrally locate them, I'm thinking I might make 2 identical axle extensions to suit the (smaller bore) 916 wheel and use std. 916 axle nuts (well, Ti ones). Then a std. 916 spacer can be used with the 916 wheel and I'll make a special spacer to suit the RC45 wheel. That way, either wheel can actually be used on either bike.
Actually the axles will need some slight machining to the outer end so the 916 wheel will fit, but they can be identical. Just need the special cone spacer to suit the RC45 wheel and inner spacer with longer drive pins for the 916 type wheel.
I like the fact that then any RC45 or 916 (748 etc) type wheel could be used on either bike with minimal work involved.
I'd still like to know though what steel Steen used for his axle extension as I presume it's suitable and I'll then use the same.
I have done the conversion using Ducati rear wheel and keeping all the original vfr components just made a new shaft to marry both together and now have a 200 rear tyre fitted.
[image: D730535D-69E9-4516-BE31-1C3C6E944345.jpeg]
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Stuartm,
I appreciate your ingenuity and entrepreneurship! I feel like the spirit of the forum is to help others and if you can help them by selling them something you've created thats great, but if you do not show us the exact details of what you have done and field questions you can't expect us to buy one of these. Look what has just happened to some of us on this same thread with Steens conversion, that we had had seen and questioned. Its only going to be proprietary until / if you sell the first one.
Bike looks great so far
Gig
Further consideration has made me realise that my dream of using identical axles to allow swapping of RC45 and 916 wheels is not going to happen. The 916 wheel is 4mm wider at the centre AND will require a 4mm spacer, so the axle will need to be 8mm longer which is too much to allow for with a special conical spacer. No big deal though as I never actually intended to swap wheels, just thought it would be a cool feature.
However I did weigh both wheels as it was clear to me that although 1/2" narrower, the 916 felt a fair bit heavier:-
-
916 = 6,055 gms
-
RC45 = 5,260 gms
That's bare, clean wheel with valve.
More questions now. Could someone with the LARGE Ducati axle (1098 etc) let me know some measurements of the wheel/nut end i.e. length of axle from flange face to thread end and also diameter(s). Just pondering whether to use those dimensions (and hence 1098 type nut) for the RC45 wheel.
For a couple hundred bucks, why not just buy the ex creations kit?
1 hour ago, keef
For a couple hundred bucks, why not just buy the ex creations kit?
Well, for starters, I think that's a LOT of money for not a lot. Just a few brackets that are not suitable for my purposes and I'd still have to buy a complete Ducati axle assembly. Secondly, why pay for someone else to do something I can do myself (once I have all the info). Where's the fun in that 🙂
My intention is to have a 916 type nut and axle thread on an NC[30|35] axle that will provide what I need for these bikes. Same concept as Steen's, but with a different thread and no need to manufacture the actual nuts.
Since I'll be using my own calipers and hence need to make my own mount brackets for those, even less reason to waste money on the EC kit which would actually provide me with nothing that I need.
"Paddle my own furrow" eh Mohawk 😉
Ahh, i see.
But you'd be paying money to stop wasting time.
When i asked extreme to make the 1098 wheel fit a vfr, we originally talked about making an adapter, like carrozerria used to do. The shim and spacer is much cleaner.
For me, the goal was to get readily available lightweight wheels on my vfr, which i accomplished years ago.
Insert smart arse smiley here.
If gig used the Ex creations kit to fit an 848 wheel, and the 848 wheel uses rhe same axle size as the old 916 series of bikes, it stands to reason that you could fit a 916 wheel as well.
Is the goal the wheel, or being able to say you made it yourself?
In that case, the goal is the wheel, but I won't be using Ducati axles and stuff. Goes against the grain on a Honda (apart from the wheel of course 🙂 )
Anyone got an accurate Ducati wheel offset? Hard to measure exactly. Is it 23mm or 7/8"?
I may not have explained that this bike is based on a VFR750 with Gen3 SSSA whose rear end is 70 wide by 105mm dia. The Ducati hub is 80 wide by 110 dia. and no matter which way I look at it, 110 into 105 don't go 😞
So the simplest solution is to stick with the 750 hub and axle and just make an extension to suit the 916 wheel.
7 hours ago, BiKenG
... The Ducati hub is 80 wide by 110 dia...
I now think that is incorrect as I misread the diagram which in fact states the 916/996 etc hub is 98mm dia. which means it would need a 3.5mm sleeve to fit in the VFR750's S/A which uses a 105mm dia hub. Possible but not ideal and I've no idea where that would position the wheel. Although being 10mm wider might allow some 'adjustment'.
All in all, not a great solution I think.
A bigger problem is trying to arrange a single nut fixing for e.g. the RC45 wheel as the 400's axle cannot really be shuffled sideways in the 750 hub the 7mm required to align the wheel. Not sure where I go from here. 😞
BiKenG, 5/2/2018 at 10:34 AM
In that case, the goal is the wheel, but I won't be using Ducati axles and stuff. Goes against the grain on a Honda (apart from the wheel of course 🙂 )
Anyone got an accurate Ducati wheel offset? Hard to measure exactly. Is it 23mm or 7/8"?
Hi Ken,
here’s the details of the Ducati wheel i used and the original vfr wheel
[image: 93CD9E69-98DA-45B6-AC41-968945B86C80.jpeg]
So you got a 20.5mm offset? Is that for the 1098/1198 wheel for the larger axle?
I measured 23mm on my 916 wheel and that concurs with what I have seen reported elsewhere. Which means Ducati used a different offset on their different axle sizes.
I used an 1198 wheel with the large axle here’s a pic of the wheel the larger the offset the easier it is to fit
[image: 36418B25-2580-401E-9D7A-B554588290A3.jpeg]
Question for those who've used Ducati axles. On the (driven/cush) LHS what type of washer do they use under the nut?
Honda like to use a dished/spring washer, but are Ducati the same or is it just a plain flat washer?
I've looked at parts lists, but they just state "washer" which is no help at all.
11 hours ago, gig
plain flat washer
Thanks gig. Just what I thought it would be.
Hi VFRRR
I make race bodywork for some of the guy's in the UK that are making RC30 look a like bikes and I am going to start my own project bike soon.
I am very interested in the work you are doing with the rear hub conversion and would like to know more about the parts required.
I have a vfr rc36 750 road bike frame and engine and that's all, nothing more at the moment because I will be building the bike from scratch and not from a road bike.
Hifibre, Extreme Creations in Australia makes a conversion kit -
https://www.extremecreations.com.au/1098-ducati-hub-conversion-kit-for-vfr800
They supply a shim to fit the hub, a spacer to align the wheel and an adaptor to mount the brake caliper. You have to supply a Ducati wheel, hub and caliper
My bike was the guinea pig for it years ago.
Guinea bike?
jim v, 12/17/2018 at 1:58 PM
Hifibre, Extreme Creations in Australia makes a conversion kit -
https://www.extremecreations.com.au/1098-ducati-hub-conversion-kit-for-vfr800
They supply a shim to fit the hub, a spacer to align the wheel and an adaptor to mount the brake caliper. You have to supply a Ducati wheel, hub and caliper
Yer, but, no, but, yer... That's for an RC46, which is quite a different kettle of fish, compared with an RC36. The bearing carriers are different diameter, for one.
It should be possible to do it, just not with that kit.
Ciao,
JZH
Hi All.
What sprockets are you'll using please?
The CB1KR/VFR uses a 530 44/45T, the 848/1098/1198 use 520 or 525 38/39T.
Having a hard time finding a rear sprocket, I think only Supersprox makes a black one?
Supersprox has a 43t sprocket, I paired that with a 16t Honda oem front on my '99. I'd like to find a 45t rear though.
If you replace the ducati carrier with an Afam, JT or Renthal 5 bobbin Quick Change carrier, then Afam do a 520 45 tooth light weight steel sprocket for the 916, which I have paired with a 16T Yamaha R1 (15-16) 520 Rental light weight sprocket (309V-520-16P). They use the same output shaft splines as VFR800 ! Who knew 🤔 They may well do same for 6 bobbin carriers for 848/1098/1099 panigale etc
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Mohawk, 9/25/2021 at 4:45 AM
If you replace the ducati carrier with an Afam, JT or Renthal 5 bobbin Quick Change carrier
Mohawk, that looks like about the lightest sprocket carrier/cush drive I've ever seen. It looks like there's a JT logo on your carrier - is this correct? I'm used to seeing Ducati drive assemblies with an outer flange covering the cush bobbins, with bolts from the bobbins coming through the outer flange and nuts on the bolts holding the outer flange [see vfrcapn's post/photo above yours]. I love your safety wire loop [very tidy] and it appears that the cush bobbins on your assembly have female hex fittings, so I assume they thread into something that transfers drive forces to the carrier, yes? It would be very interesting if you could shed some light. Thanks!